Friedman: Kyle’s Summer of “Kawhi”

[Ledge And Dairy]

I think the closest to picking up NHL “Kawhi” would have been trading for Jack Eichel or maybe Nikita Kucherov in last years off season. Even then neither player matches Kawhi’s level. Both Eichel and Kucherov were coming off long term injuries (Kucherov did come back for the playoffs) and only Eichel was available but he was never considered on the same level as a Kawhi and you weren’t going to run Matthews-Eichel-Tavares down the middle.

I think the closest thing this off season would be bringing in Carey Price, if the rumours are correct and Jack isn’t coming back then the Leafs have a need in goal. This would never happen but I think it is the closest to a “Kawhi type deal” not taking into account Price is well past his prime, the huge salary and he is probably retiring. I can see John Gibson coming in but to meet the criteria of the Kawhi trade …

Player in his prime coming off long term injury
Player considered top 3 (top 5??) in the league

MacDavid
Drai
Makar
Vasi
Barkov

Aren’t coming…

You are reading way too much into the title of the podcast and not the actual podcast itself. Maybe go give it a listen because they were talking about bringing Toronto looking to get a player for their top 6 that irritates the competition and sparks the team (mention how Bunting kinda does that but need more). Guys like Marchand, the Tkachuk's, Wilson, B. Schenn, Kadri, Miller, Gallagher, Bennett, Kreider, Benn, etc.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Miller at 50% is exactly what that team needs to light a fire under their ass. That guy does not take losing well, and will absolutely say what is need if guys aren't pulling their weight.

I don't think Nylander is what Van is looking for, given their stated goal of losing cap, but that doesn't mean there isn't a deal to be made.

Trade Nylander for picks and prospects, then trade those in a package for Miller at 50% and everyone wins. Leafs get a mean-ass 99pt 2C, can push Tavares to wing where he should be, and run the rest of it back for next year.

They also save what, 4m cap going from Nylander to 2.75 Miller?

I could see Vancouver being interested in Nylander if Boeser/Garland is on the way out.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Troy Terry - 1.450
John Gibson - 6.400
Anthony Stolarz - 0.950

Mitch Marner - 10.903
Petr Mrazek - 3.800
Jack Campbell - UFA (rights to)
2022 1st - (24th overall?)

Notes:
Toronto would save ~9.500 (I'm assuming the Talbot contract for Campbell - 3.666)
Terry is the same age as Marner
I think Toronto still adds, but futures should be able to get it done IMO

Trade value aside you are swinging really low on Campbell here. He had the best SV% and HDSV% before the shutdown and getting injured (after ~50% of a season for a goalie) and he was excellent after returning from injury. I would expect a 5x5 deal +/- 500k

 

[NeverForget06]

Leafs need more grind and toughness to their lineup. Something like this could really give them more snarl well meeting some of the Canucks needs:

To Toronto: Myers (8% retained), Lockwood, Palmu, 2024 5th

To Vancouver: Rielly, 2023 3rd

What a crazy proposal ! You'd have to double the amount retained to at least 16% before that deal would make sense

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I could see Vancouver being interested in Nylander if Boeser/Garland is on the way out.

I doubt it. If we're trading both Miller and Boeser, we've all but acknowledged we aren't competing next season. Nylander just doesn't make sense for us. He's only signed for two more years and will want a massive payday and/or to play for a consistent playoff bound team. Vancouver isn't in the position to offer either right now.

Any trade between the Leafs and Nucks involves futures coming back for us.

 

[Cogburn]

Hard no.

Marner and Matthews aren't going anywhere.



You think 30 goals replaces Mitch Marner? Uhhhh what?

I'd love to nab Gibson and stop worrying about our goaltending position. But you're absolutely nuts if you think Marner is going the other way.

Well 37 replaces 35, if we're going off just this year, yes. That one element is even, actually a win, for Toronto, along with the difference in cap space.

Well what would be given for Gibson then? A second round pick in 2024 and Holl isn't getting it done. Nylander? Rielly? Tavares (who doesn't fit needs or age range for the Ducks, has a full NMC and his Maple Leafs pyjamas from his youth, presumably framed somewhere. If not Marner, how does Toronto fit Gibson under their tight cap situation? Kerfoot or Brodie aren't going to do it valuewise. Including Mrazek is going to cost a lot of assets, Rookies/ELCs being included are actively hurting Toronto's cap situation.

What a crazy proposal ! You'd have to double the amount retained to at least 16% before that deal would make sense

Funnily enough, Rielly is the last thing we need. 8% more retention for two years will not be what kills that deal on our end, hilariously lopsided value in our favor be damned.

 

[Kelly]

Well 37 replaces 35, if we're going off just this year, yes. That one element is even, actually a win, for Toronto, along with the difference in cap space.

Well what would be given for Gibson then? A second round pick in 2024 and Holl isn't getting it done. Nylander? Rielly? Tavares (who doesn't fit needs or age range for the Ducks, has a full NMC and his Maple Leafs pyjamas from his youth, presumably framed somewhere. If not Marner, how does Toronto fit Gibson under their tight cap situation? Kerfoot or Brodie aren't going to do it valuewise. Including Mrazek is going to cost a lot of assets, Rookies/ELCs being included are actively hurting Toronto's cap situation.


Funnily enough, Rielly is the last thing we need. 8% more retention for two years will not be what kills that deal on our end, hilariously lopsided value in our favor be damned.

I'm not even gonna discuss Marner with you, so clearly out of touch with him and what he brings when you bring up goal scoring.

Nylander is a much better start. Though even then, starting goaltenders usually don't have the same value at 70-80 pt offensive wingers.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Nah sorry bro. Your evaluation simply being shit doesn't make me delusional.

Nylander for Gibson is a much better base, happy?

"You're a typical main boarder that thinks he knows how to fix the Leafs, but in reality watched them a total of three times last year and doesn't know squat about the team nor the accurate value of their players. lol"

Your deal:
- Nylander
+ Gibson

My Deal:
- Marner
- 28th overall
+ Gibson
+ Terry
+ Cap Space (about 9.500 to 11.000 depending on Campbell's demands)

So what you're saying is you'd rather keep Marner and deal with the exact same issues plaguing the Leafs for 6+ years now (no depth as a result of no cap space), than simply trading him to keep Nylander, get a bunch of Cap Space, and Troy Terry.

Hell... I could even offer Claude Giroux 9.500 for 1 year in my scenario. I'd have the same cap hit as you or better. My top 6 forwards would be Bunting, Matthews, Giroux, Tavares, Nylander, and Terry. Yours would be Bunting, Matthews, Tavares, Marner, and 2 plugs. Plus I'd have a better backup goalie.

Not sure that's the right move compared to spending the money on bottom 6 upgrades, but either way... I've made my point.

But no.. there's no logic at all in my proposal. Yours is vastly superior.

 

[KevinRedkey]

I'm not even gonna discuss Marner with you, so clearly out of touch with him and what he brings when you bring up goal scoring.

Nylander is a much better start. Though even then, starting goaltenders usually don't have the same value at 70-80 pt offensive wingers.

Nice try bud, but you're the one who brought up goal scoring

Hard no.

Marner and Matthews aren't going anywhere.



You think 30 goals replaces Mitch Marner? Uhhhh what?

I'd love to nab Gibson and stop worrying about our goaltending position. But you're absolutely nuts if you think Marner is going the other way.

 

[Kelly]

Nice try bud, but you're the one who brought up goal scoring

Are you okay? Did you read the contents of the post I had quoted? That brought up goal scoring and how Terry makes Marner 'moot' because he scored at similar goal pace? Totally ignoring the fact that Marner also throws up 60-70 assists with those goal scoring totals?
Be better Kevin, reading isn't hard.

As for your other post. Yes I'd much rather the forward core with Marner, no contest.

 

[egelband]

The Foligno trade alone was a fireable offense IMO.

Yes. It seems that the leafs tend to address a roster weakness too late and then overpay. They overpaid for Muzzin too, I’d say. Not sure if that’s on Dubas or Shanahan but it’s a bad habit either way.

 

[Drew311]

Dubas is bad for the league. He single handely increased player salaries with the deals he gave out.

Did you forget the McDavid contract came first and set the upper limit for Matthews?

 

[Drew311]

Nylander, Marner and Rielly all have to go

Nylander is the only one who should be on the table and he only goes if they can get what they want for him. Marner was one of the best players in the league in the last ~30 games and had a good playoff series. Rielly just signed a team friendly contract and is their #1 dman. No way they move.

 

[Cogburn]

I'm not even gonna discuss Marner with you, so clearly out of touch with him and what he brings when you bring up goal scoring.

Nylander is a much better start. Though even then, starting goaltenders usually don't have the same value at 70-80 pt offensive wingers.

I don't know that Nylander is attractive enough to the Ducks to have them move Gibson. He smoothes a lot of roughness out of games while their defense is rebuilt and guys like Zegras continue to develop.

 

[Space Coyote]

I would be surprised if Gibson returned more than what the Leafs paid when they traded for Andersen.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Just after a Brief look at your team/farm system

Kerfoot, 2022 1st, 2023 1st, Knies, Villenueve, Liljigren are the pieces that I can see being mismatched to make an offer

Something like Kerfoot, 2022 1st, Liljigren, Knies seems reasonable

Lol

I don't know that Nylander is attractive enough to the Ducks to have them move Gibson. He smoothes a lot of roughness out of games while their defense is rebuilt and guys like Zegras continue to develop.

One’s a ppg impact forward who turns it up in the post season signed at a reasonable number, the Other is a 900 goalie for 3 years running who has 5 years at over 6m

 

[hockeynorth]

The closest thing to a Kawhi move they could make would be like, signing Geno or Berg, or trading for Marchand, Stone, or I guess maybeeee Scheifele

 

[Nylanderthal]

Nylander is the only one who should be on the table and he only goes if they can get what they want for him. Marner was one of the best players in the league in the last ~30 games and had a good playoff series. Rielly just signed a team friendly contract and is their #1 dman. No way they move.

Nylander has been the best of the big money guys for three straight post seasons. That’s not exactly a recipe for success

The closest thing to a Kawhi move they could make would be like, signing Geno or Berg, or trading for Marchand, Stone, or I guess maybeeee Scheifele

Willy +++ for schief + Helle (I understand it would be a big add)

 

[Cogburn]

One’s a ppg impact forward who turns it up in the post season signed at a reasonable number, the Other is a 900 goalie for 3 years running who has 5 years at over 6m

One plays on the same team as three players that their fans have claimed are as good as McDavid, and the other has kept a rebuilding/tanking team relevant and competitive longer then they should have been. See how that works?

 

[Nylanderthal]

One plays on the same team as three players that their fans have claimed are as good as McDavid, and the other has kept a rebuilding/tanking team relevant and competitive longer then they should have been. See how that works?

I used hard numbers and facts and you used nonsense?

 

[CamelToews]

We could really use a guy like Marchand.

 

[I am Canadian]

If Josh Anderson wasn't a Hab I would say him. He's expensive but the type to elevate his game in the playoffs and get right in your face constantly.

 

[habsfan44]

Wait hes not getting fired? How does this nerd still have a job lol

I think he's a more than competent G.M. , at some point the multi-millionaires on the ice have to perform and produce in the "playoffs" as well as being regular season hero's . They have no excuses left to give .

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Nylander and Robertson for Scheifele. I’m a huge Willy guy and think he’s an awesome player, but he’s definitely a p***y when the play gets rough. Think it could be a good fit for both sides.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

For reference th Kawhi trade was

DeRozan, Poltl (that looks wrong but that's how it's spelled and a 1st

for Kawhi and Danny Green

so what is this big shake up in Leaf land? because there are no Kawhi level players on the market in the NHL

so what are we looking at here?

is it a John Gibson trade?

is it a trade with a team like Vancouver where you take a guy like Nylander and maybe another forward and you swap them for one of JT Miller or Conor Garland and a guy like Nils Hoglander I don't want to see Nylander traded but if it did happen I wouldn't be against Garland I wanted him when he was in Arizona.

is it a deal with the devils that sees Blackwood and Serverson or Blackwood and Miles wood Come over?

is it something where you trade say Kerfoot and Nylander for Garland and then try to put the savings on Kerfoot towards a David Perron or Bryan Rust in free agency? Elliotte Frediman did specifically mention Perron as a potenial Leaf target on Kyper and Bourne today.


do they try to Free up Muzzin's money and try to put that towards signing a guy like letang in free agency,? Letang has stated in the past that if he ever left Pittsburg Toronto would be a place he'd want to go.

I don't know what Dubas does but if this is his "Summer of Kawhi" then something fairly big has to happen.

I think it will because he has 1 year remaining on his contract and if he doesn't make significant progress he's gone and he knows it you can tell when you listen to him speak at the season ending press conference.

he wasn't as adamant this time about not making changes to the core, he did say he didn't feel the core was just 4 or 5 guys but he didn't say they wouldn't change the core this time like he has in the past.

I do thing a big move is coming and I look forward to seeing what it is