Rumor: Krug's Rights to be traded. DRW in running

[Retire91]

Absolutely disagree totally with this nonsense.

You have to start from something. Insanity is the status quo and wait only for prospects to develop, for what, 8 year to catch the prime? You need them to develop in the mix, but also need elite players around them, so they can get a taste from elite passing, etc. Learn winning things from winners.

Adding players like Krug, maybe some trade with Tampa to acquire a center (Cirelli? or Gourde) does another step. Starting goaltender maybe makes the biggest one, if that's level of Markström.

You build this team better piece by piece. Sign UFAs, bring in kids, trade for needed spots, sell unneeded vets at the deadline for future picks. Rinse and repeat.

Yzerman is pretty good at turning over players so we are not stuck with players like we were in the last regime. But those players also need to have some value in the trade market. A 33 year old declining 7 million dollar power play specialist is going to have negative trade value.

This team has also wiffed in the draft lottery too many times to say we are good let's get this started. A team needs top 5 talent, we only have 1 top 5 pick so far and its on the wrong side of the top 5. Weather or not that is in our control it still happened and we are still that far behind. If Yzerman can hit the deep draft again then that will be awesome but you can't count on it as a strategy, it's just nice when it happens. How many cup winners are lacking a single top 3 pick on the roster let alone multiple?

We only have 3 players solidified on this roster and arguably 1 D. That is not a foundation to begin sprinkling top paid aging UFA across. You add UFA when its clear your core has something or if that UFA is part of your core.

There is no way you can fast forward your way out of this crap hockey without sacrificing the top end capability of your core down the road. I shouldn't say no way, but long term UFA acquisitions at this time are more risk than its worth just to be 5th from last instead of just last. I think a goalie is a different matter so I am good there.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Absolutely disagree totally with this nonsense.

You have to start from something. Insanity is the status quo and wait only for prospects to develop, for what, 8 year to catch the prime? You need them to develop in the mix, but also need elite players around them, so they can get a taste from elite passing, etc. Learn winning things from winners.

Adding players like Krug, maybe some trade with Tampa to acquire a center (Cirelli? or Gourde) does another step. Starting goaltender maybe makes the biggest one, if that's level of Markström.

You build this team better piece by piece. Sign UFAs, bring in kids, trade for needed spots, sell unneeded vets at the deadline for future picks. Rinse and repeat.

Exactly. This utopia of building through the draft until you have your set core of 4-5 players between 18-25 (after that they’re too old) years of age, then identifying holes in your roster and being able to find exactly that via trade/UFA.. it doesn’t exist.

 

[Retire91]

Exactly. This utopia of building through the draft until you have your set core of 4-5 players between 18-25 (after that they’re too old) years of age, then identifying holes in your roster and being able to find exactly that via trade/UFA.. it doesn’t exist.

Except for literally every cup winner besides maybe 3 since the cap was put in place.

 

[Frk It]

You get better incrementally. You don’t just stockpile draft picks and cap space and become a good team one day. I don’t understand these opinions in this thread at all.

 

[Retire91]

My main concern isn't 20/21 or 21/22 its 24/25 and 25/26. I don't want a 33 year old 7 million dollar 5'9" power play specialist as one of our highest paid players in 24/25

Really my only concern is about the contract. To prove it I would be comfortable signing Krug at 11 million per season, if it was for only 2 years. I still think that wastes an asset though because we can't leverage cap dumps like Staal

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

You get better incrementally. You don’t just stockpile draft picks and cap space and become a good team one day. I don’t understand these opinions in this thread at all.

But there's a pretty big gap between adding solid NHL players on sensible contracts to your roster, year by year, and blowing a ton of money for a ton of years on a top pairing defenseman, all for a team incredibly likely to still be in the bottom third in 5 years.

 

[Frk It]

But there's a pretty big gap between adding solid NHL players on sensible contracts to your roster, year by year, and blowing a ton of money for a ton of years on a top pairing defenseman, all for a team incredibly likely to still be in the bottom third in 5 years.

So don’t even try?

The earliest a guy can hit free agency is 27, and most teams aren’t going to sign deals that take guys right to free agency. Also most teams aren’t going to let guys hit that free agency that are great all around defenseman.

So if people think we can sign someone better than Krug in the coming years, that’s wishful thinking big time. People talk about Krug like we are singing a Kyle Quincey.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

My main concern isn't 20/21 or 21/22 its 24/25 and 25/26. I don't want a 33 year old 7 million dollar 5'9" power play specialist as one of our highest paid players in 24/25

Really my only concern is about the contract. To prove it I would be comfortable signing Krug at 11 million per season, if it was for only 2 years. I still think that wastes an asset though because we can't leverage cap dumps like Staal

Larkin is up after 22-23, don't worry, he will make well north of that as will probably a couple of other guys by that point we will see...

If we don't start improving we might as well turn and ship Larkin, Mantha and Bertuzzi now and get real ugly on this. That is the plan the people that don't want to sign anybody whatsoever should start saying. It isn't good enough to tank for the next two years embarrassingly, what you really need to do is also embrace a 10 year rebuild and get freaking nuclear in terms of the ideology I am reading. I don't think it will work but it is really what is being proposed. Passing on a legitimate top 10 D-man scorer over the last half of a decade at 7 million? I guess, but I don't actually see anybody having a plan to get better because hopefully we get lucky with the lottery probably has a lower chance than Krug is Rafalski and is fine for this contract because of his puck moving ability.

By the way even when singing Krug for the next couple years we are still hoping to get lucky in the lottery.

 

[Retire91]

I really don't see the point in giving up Larkin and Mantha they are still very young and both probably have 10 years of prime hockey in them we already have a good and growing prospect pool. The rebuild is already in high gear. I just don't understand why not wanting a 30 year old 5'9" power play specialist at 7 million dollars for almost max term = we want to suck forever. It just means let's use our assets to match a rebuilding plan.

Krug is not Rafalski, Krug put up those numbers on a cup contending team behind a norris winning defense group. His weaknesses are going to be exposed here faster than we could spend Krug's contract in Vegas.

I understand People's disgust with unwatchable hockey I just don't share it. Unwatchable hockey goes back several seasons before Yzerman even arrived. If you think the team is bad put the blame where it belongs which is either the former GM for driving over a cliff, or the ownership forcing him to do it. Don't blame the guy that can see he has to make up for those lost seasons and that the cupboard needs to be restocked.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I really don't see the point in giving up Larkin and Mantha they are still very young and both probably have 10 years of prime hockey in them we already have a good and growing prospect pool. The rebuild is already in high gear. I just don't understand why not wanting a 30 year old 5'9" power play specialist at 7 million dollars for almost max term = we want to suck forever. It just means let's use our assets to match a rebuilding plan.

Krug is not Rafalski, Krug put up those numbers on a cup contending team behind a norris winning defense group. His weaknesses are going to be exposed here faster than we could spend Krug's contract in Vegas.

I understand People's disgust with unwatchable hockey I just don't share it. Unwatchable hockey goes back several seasons before Yzerman even arrived. If you think the team is bad put the blame where it belongs which is either the former GM for driving over a cliff, or the ownership forcing him to do it. Don't blame the guy that can see he has to make up for those lost seasons and that the cupboard needs to be restocked.

Yeah the New Jersey Devils weren't perennial cup contenders with Stevens and Neidermayer in all but his one year after the lockout before he signed with us? He was a PP assist machine with some issues with his size and own zone play. It is a pretty apt comparison, he won't joining a good team is really the problem for Krug versus Rafalski.

But we need a guy that passes the puck well. It is important to develop the last little bit of Larkin and Mantha while giving the younger group a better option to maximize their development. These kids aren't going to get all the way without a little more guidance. In my opinion and I know he was bad the year before but the biggest impact on the team this year was he wasn't in the dressing room to rescue them. They were forced to grow and they failed a lot. I don't think that is the be all end all in one season, but to be that horrible again or even close to that horrible again isn't good for anybody. All that cap space has to eventually start going towards things that are obtainable and do make us better, this thing is not going to happen with a magic wand in an instant when we just hope it will in 2022 or 23.

I will blame the league, it is literally setup to do this, only they blinked when the Oilers won a bunch of lotteries and forgot that is an important part of their parity vision. That there will be really bad and good teams with all that parity in the middle. But those bottom three teams they are big in trouble when they are there without the assurance of a good player that they used to get with the 5 slider spot rule of years past. Everybody is going to get a turn at the bottom, we rode high for 25 years, yes the owners did want that and we also weren't going to sell off franchise face players no matter how great EA sports fans think it will be. So here we are, this is what is designed to happen, we have hit the bottom, it happened to Lou in New Jersey, it has happened to all the great GMs except Sam Pollock including our HHOF ex-GM. Yzerman has his work cutout, anybody would being a GM is an incredibly difficult job. I have confidence he will lead us out and I don't think he is going to do it while sitting on his hands and solely relying on drafting and complete tanking moves. He set that up in his evaluation year, which is really two years now. So I think we are going to start seeing some forward momentum, the guys in the business do certain things a way for a reason and one of the bigger ones here is Yzerman is about as competitive as it gets, I don't think his plan is to hope for the lottery and be completely risk averse in free agency for the next couple years.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I really don't see the point in giving up Larkin and Mantha they are still very young and both probably have 10 years of prime hockey in them we already have a good and growing prospect pool. The rebuild is already in high gear. I just don't understand why not wanting a 30 year old 5'9" power play specialist at 7 million dollars for almost max term = we want to suck forever. It just means let's use our assets to match a rebuilding plan.

Krug is not Rafalski, Krug put up those numbers on a cup contending team behind a norris winning defense group. His weaknesses are going to be exposed here faster than we could spend Krug's contract in Vegas.

I understand People's disgust with unwatchable hockey I just don't share it. Unwatchable hockey goes back several seasons before Yzerman even arrived. If you think the team is bad put the blame where it belongs which is either the former GM for driving over a cliff, or the ownership forcing him to do it. Don't blame the guy that can see he has to make up for those lost seasons and that the cupboard needs to be restocked.

I'm not interested in assigning blame. Sure, it's Holland's fault that the team is garbage. What does blaming him get us?

Basically, I think I just don't agree with you on Krug's valuation and that's why I'd want to sign him. I don't think he's a PP specialist. He's been playing 21 minutes a night for most of his career. Yes, he scores a shit ton of points on the PP. Shouldn't teams do that if they have good players? Yes, he isn't a perfect signee. That's why we might have a chance to sign him. I just don't want to see guys like Mantha, Larkin, Zadina, Bertuzzi, Rasmussen, and others wither on the vine because their D (outside of Hronek) can't make an outlet pass to save their life.

I also don't really care to say "Filip, Moritz, Dennis... I hope you guys are up to the task, because if you're not, we're f***ed." Matching the rebuilding plan is providing some of our good young prospects with half a chance at playing competitive hockey.

 

[Snuggs]

There are many ways to rebuild a team, and we have a ton of picks...

Signing Krug can't be the ONLY move though. They'll have to follow it up with something else to speed up this rebuild. I think it's reasonable to swing for the fence on Krug, and then follow it up with another solid signing.(2nd line center). A Krug signing alone, IMO, won't move the needle much for the rebuild in FA. They need 2 or 3 impact UFA signings this year to move the needle much. An maybe even 2 or 3 prospects to work out.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

There are many ways to rebuild a team, and we have a ton of picks...

Signing Krug can't be the ONLY move though. They'll have to follow it up with something else to speed up this rebuild. I think it's reasonable to swing for the fence on Krug, and then follow it up with another solid signing.(2nd line center). A Krug signing alone, IMO, won't move the needle much for the rebuild in FA. They need 2 or 3 impact UFA signings this year to move the needle much. An maybe even 2 or 3 prospects to work out.

Right. This I agree with. Krug isn't a magic fix-all piece. He's part of a sustained incremental improvement. Signing Krug (or another D like him... Barrie maybe, if you're not big on the short man Krug) would be like Chicago adding Marty Havlat when they were trying to become good.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

from Dobber: Ramblings: A New Era Begins on Broadway, Trade Rumours, and Players Heading Overseas (Sept. 30)

"Speaking of Krug, reports indicate that the Bs offered him six years at 6.25M. To me, that seems like a nice ceiling of an offer for a player of his ilk. Sure, he’s an incredibly useful offensive player and one we love to have on fantasy rosters. However, you do not go bananas on a player leaving their prime who needs sheltering at even-strength."

"Call me crazy, but I’m not paying a player 7-8M per into their mid-30s and be forced to have them start 70 percent of their shifts in the offensive end while seeing all the juicy power-play minutes. That’s the type of deal you end up choking on."

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

what you really need to do is also embrace a 10 year rebuild and get freaking nuclear

I think it'll happen no matter what we do. We're not special, and teams routinely do take that long. We've been screwed in the lottery, which has really set the rebuild back even further. Things would be so much faster with Lafreniere. If we lose the lottery again in 2021, this rebuild is going way longer than we'd like pretty much no matter what.

 

[odin1981]

lol what? This couldn’t be more wrong. This team is literally unwatchable. We have 20 + mil in cap space with a good majority of all of our bad contracts expiring

too far often to start through UFA? Uh we couldn’t be in any better position to start doing that now

You cannot build a team through just the draft. We HAVE been getting picks and futures for 2 years already, you can’t ice a literally unwatchable team while you wait for those pieces to fall into place

You want a player that will improve a facet of this team beyond a 4th line energy type like a top 6 forward and top 4 d and you don't think it will cost a first rounder, Larkin, Bert, Hronek, or Mantha?

Talk about fan being short for fanatic and unreasonable in accepting what asset's cost....

 

[MBH]

Another point worth bringing up is with the trend of elite RFA's seemingly getting paid on second contracts as off late, signing Krug at a overpay can cap us out much earlier than anticipated. Say we get a Power or a Wright in the next 2 year's or another similar type player. They go out and kick ass and take name's their first three year's, well then we are paying 9+m per year on them and they aren't cheap any more. In addition to Mantha, Hronek, and Bert not being on ELC's it can add up fast.

Exactly. What happens to Hronek if he goes 15G-35-50 this year?
What happens to Zadina if he blows up and hits 30G?

The time to overpay/overextend guys isn't when you suck.

You overpay a guy when he's that guy you hope is the last piece of puzzle and you're ready to go for it in a 1-2-3 year window.

 

[MBH]

By the time you're good building through the draft, uh oh, all your best pieces are now wanting big UFA deals. Well, we're still not great, better sell them off and keep the cycle going and going and going and going...

Our boys need help out there. Today. It doesn't mean we're going to be aiming for the playoffs, but let's at least try to ice a team that isn't getting wrecked in every single phase of the game. Give our young guys a chance to actually develop their game rather than spend every shift chasing the play.

Even forgetting the ridiculous demands Krug made in Boston....
You have to play "our boys" for them to need help.
You go get Krug, you've just made it harder to know what you've got in Cholowski.

Anyway, take a look at Chicago. They started making the moves when their kids dictated it.
They climb to .500. Then they go sign Brian Campbell.
Next year, they climb over .500 and make the conference finals.
Booom. Then they sign Hossa.
Booom. They win the cup.
That might have been a bit more difficult if they'd gone out and paid for a one- dimensional defenseman on a 7-year deal back in 2006.

 

[RedMenace]

Why are people here thinking Krug is the best and only option for a decent, veteran, puck-moving D?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Exactly. What happens to Hronek if he goes 15G-35-50 this year?
What happens to Zadina if he blows up and hits 30G?

The time to overpay/overextend guys isn't when you suck.

You overpay a guy when he's that guy you hope is the last piece of puzzle and you're ready to go for it in a 1-2-3 year window.

We sign Hronek
We sign Zadina

... problem solved?

Phew, that was tough.

What we are talking about is basically "should we offer Krug ~1 million more than he's really worth and maybe ~1 year longer than ideal?".

The idea that at any point in the next ~5 years we're scrounging for that 1 million in cap space is just ridiculous tbh. We have a million ways to build this roster, a million ways to sign contracts. We are LIKELY to get good cost-effectiveness on our ELC and RFA deals. Saving that 1 million? UFA is not where you need to do it when you're in our situation.

 

[Henkka]

Why are people here thinking Krug is the best and only option for a decent, veteran, puck-moving D?

Mostly bevause of the home-town thing. And Blashill-connection. Many could avoid Detroit if it's not familiar for them. Krug has all connections in here, parents, brother, wife and wife's relatives - always the most important people.

On corona times, you don't want to live in big city. Separated Detroit is maybe the best place on Earth to lurk at home.

I wont definitely mind if Yzerman signs Pietrangelo or some other righty like Barrie. Those just aren't so realistic than Krug.
o

 

[Henkka]

Exactly. What happens to Hronek if he goes 15G-35-50 this year?

The time to overpay/overextend guys isn't when you suck.

100% sure that signing Krug would eat majority of PP points away from Hronek, if Krug manages the 1st PO QB role.

So we would get Hronek extension cheaper. It's mainly great idea to sign Krug, it controls the caphit at defence. We also would get Mantha and Bertuzzi now cheaper, before there's no Krug-effect on play. Time to extend them long-term.

Singing Krug means that secondary guys are not getting main duties. Zadina is not gonna pot 30 yet, he's pretty much rolling the 2nd unit.

Zadinan can dream potting 30... maybe after 6 years, when Mantha could be traded and he's 26 year old in prime getting 1st PP duty.

 

[Retire91]

I think there are some extreme risks there that people are blowing over, but I also agree with people that signing Krug although it would be a mistake wouldn't necessarily kill us, it would hurt though.

1.) Krug reportedly turned down 6.5 @ 6 years from Boston. That doesn't mean he want's 6.5 @ 6 with another team that means he wants more than 6.5. So if Krug comes here expect 7.0 @ 6. 7.5 @ 6 or even 8 @ 6. Personally I don't see Yzerman bidding with other teams this high. 6.5 is bad enough but more than that is bat-sh|t frankly. I can also see the market laughing at Krug and crawling back to Boston asking if the deal is still on the table.

2.) Krug is an offensive defenseman and has outstanding numbers. But he did that in a bubble. Boston has been a championship caliber team going back to when Tim Thomas played for them. They always had a functional complete team capable of going deep in the playoffs. How many powerplays did that generate, how many offensive zone starts, how many perfectly execuited defensive transitions contributing to the rush, how much competent backup from linemates if Krug wants pinch, how much extra time did he get with the puck because of line mismatches from a team rolling 4 legit lines, how much extra space was given because his lines included other threats. Krug will have little to none of that here and every single NHL team will be able to key on him to completely disrupt everything that made him successful in Boston.

3.) Krug will be our number one defenseaman and that has more responsibility than the power play and outlet pass. How is Krug going to shut down the opposition with a team that has 5% of the talent as the previous team he played for. How is Krug going to hold up playing 25+ minutes?

On the flip side I can't disagree with you on the benefits I just don't see it worth the contract

1.) Krug will bring much needed puck control to the team in the few windows he will get to display it

2.) Krug will move everyone down the depth chart taking some much needed pressure off the younger players

3.) Krug would be an excellent mentor to the kids

4.) Krug's contract will hurt but it certainly isn't end game there are ways to manage it

One of the biggest reasons we are in this mess and most teams end up in messes is missed timing and not making the hard choices at the right times. It was time to rebuild when lidstrom retired, the wings made the wrong choice and misjudged timing. Let's not extend the team's problems by artificially accelerating the rebuild and never getting the talent level needed to open a legit window with a legit core. I think Yzerman has the patience needed to suck a season or 3 more until UFA options would make the right impact. I just don't think there are fans with the same vision or patience. And that is a shame. You got the winning hockey you want through the artificially extended playoff window in the get in and anything can happen years. Now its time to pay the piper and people don't want to cough it up.

 

[Pavels Dog]

3.) Krug will be our number one defenseaman and that has more responsibility than the power play and outlet pass. How is Krug going to shut down the opposition with a team that has 5% of the talent as the previous team he played for. How is Krug going to hold up playing 25+ minutes?

I don't think he would need to log more than 20-22 minutes a night.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

It's possible that he turned down Bostons offer because he dosent want to remain in Boston outside of crazy overpayment...