Player Discussion: Kristian Vesalainen [Update: Signed ELC]

[Mortimer Snerd]

@Mortimer Snerd I used word "natural" in purpose. You insist that it's natural that forwads play their "North American on side", but that has nothing to do with it being natural. It's just habitual in North America, not necessarily a good thing.

I guess both North American and European people agree that it's good for D-men to play the side their stick is (though there are exceptions for the rule), unless they are on PP, where that can be reversed as you simply cannot shoot one-timer from your "NA-natural" side.

Also Laine cannot shoot one-timer from his "NA-natural" side, but Laine, Kovy and Ovy are pretty awesome shooting those one-timers from the LW side which they find natural for them.

As said, it's more complicated for Vesalainen, so I think this discussion is way off topic in this thread.

The thing you seem to be ignoring is that wingers very frequently cross over in the O zone. They do this for more reasons than one, but it has the effect of getting their shot onto the desired side. Lined up the European way and crossing over puts their one timers onto the wrong side. So they are limiting their maneuverability. How is that a good thing?

You also ignore the difficulties playing in the D and N zones from having their sticks on the 'wrong' sides.

I'm not interested in debating the intricacies involved. That's been done. I want to acknowledge that it is a Euro vs NA thing, not an individual player thing. We've been dancing around this too much. IMO, Euro coaches are doing it wrong and creating problems unnecessarily. I assume they are seeking an advantage in the O zone. There, it doesn't matter because players move all over looking for a good shooting lane. In the other zones, it is a handicap, often having to use the backhand.

Primarily European fans are making far too big an issue of their favourite players being 'corrected' in the NHL. - IMO. Once a player is fully adapted to the NHL it shouldn't be that difficult to play either wing. Young players who are still adapting - and working on developing a complete 200' game - should stay on the side they shoot from when in the D and N zones.

This all applies to Vesalainen as long as people continue to insist that he is a RW - and some still seem to be doing that.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I bet they talked about his deal when he was in Winnipeg during summer. He'll sign come training camp.

 

[Halberdier]

The thing you seem to be ignoring is that wingers very frequently cross over in the O zone. They do this for more reasons than one, but it has the effect of getting their shot onto the desired side. Lined up the European way and crossing over puts their one timers onto the wrong side. So they are limiting their maneuverability. How is that a good thing?

The exact reason why they have to do that cross over is that they are on wrong side from the start. Wrong side for scoring goals, that is. So if they are alredy on that side where they can shoot best, they don't need to switch sides anymore. Unless made only occasionally, that would be just silly.

Besides, it's much longer route to get into the O-zone if you need to cross over, so they are effectively much slower if they need to do that.

I guess you haven't seen many of those highlights or shift-by-shift videos about 17-year-old Laine doing those zone-entries as a LW. If you did, you would not argue about the issue that much. His dekes for example are effective from the left side as he can either deke or shoot from good angle, whereas on right side that's not happening.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The exact reason why they have to do that cross over is that they are on wrong side from the start. Wrong side for scoring goals, that is. So if they are alredy on that side where they can shoot best, they don't need to switch sides anymore. Unless made only occasionally, that would be just silly.

Besides, it's much longer route to get into the O-zone if you need to cross over, so they are effectively much slower if they need to do that.

I guess you haven't seen many of those highlights or shift-by-shift videos about 17-year-old Laine doing those zone-entries as a LW. If you did, you would not argue about the issue that much. His dekes for example are effective from the left side as he can either deke or shoot from good angle, whereas on right side that's not happening.

Even when they line up on 'your preferred' side they often cross over. It is not only about lining up for a shot. They are dodging checks, maneuvering for a shooting lane.

Meanwhile, lining up the Euro way has them making and receiving passes on their backhands. That means they get into scoring positions less often because of more failed passes.

There is more to hockey than just the one-timer.

I'm done. The best we can get here is to agree to disagree.

 

[Trilliann]

He's playing in a small U20 tournament in Sweden next weekend. I haven't heard anything new about his plans for the season or contract or anything.
https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/4-nations-tournament-Örnsköldsvik-swe-24-26-aug.2528237/

The Young Stars Classic is September 7th - 9th.

Well, he's not playing this weekend after all.

Leijonat.fi - U20 Nuoret Leijonat matkusti Ruotsiin - Turnaus käynnistyy perjantaina - Päivitetty pelaajaluettelo (in Finnish)

 

[Romang67]

Well, he's not playing this weekend after all.

Leijonat.fi - U20 Nuoret Leijonat matkusti Ruotsiin - Turnaus käynnistyy perjantaina - Päivitetty pelaajaluettelo (in Finnish)

Because they needed room for the person sized bottle of vodka wearing #22?

 

[Trilliann]

Because they needed room for the person sized bottle of vodka wearing #22?

Something like that

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Well, he's not playing this weekend after all.

Leijonat.fi - U20 Nuoret Leijonat matkusti Ruotsiin - Turnaus käynnistyy perjantaina - Päivitetty pelaajaluettelo (in Finnish)

Ugh. I was really looking forward to having a Jet to cheer for this weekend.

 

[sashalaine]

Iltalehti, a Finnish tabloid reports that Vesalainen is very close to signing with Jets. They say it's likely to get done this weekend.

 

[ffh]

Iltalehti, a Finnish tabloid reports that Vesalainen is very close to signing with Jets. They say it's likely to get done this weekend.

was there really any doubt. these rumors all summer about an impasse due to bonuses was sort of funny. think he makes team and plays with Perreault and roslovic on 4th line.

 

[KingBogo]

Iltalehti, a Finnish tabloid reports that Vesalainen is very close to signing with Jets. They say it's likely to get done this weekend.

This is good news. I'm very curious about the amount of performance bonuses.

 

[surixon]

Iltalehti, a Finnish tabloid reports that Vesalainen is very close to signing with Jets. They say it's likely to get done this weekend.

Good stuff. I never had any doubt that he'd sign. Looking forward to what he will do in camp.

 

[KingBogo]

was there really any doubt. these rumors all summer about an impasse due to bonuses was sort of funny. think he makes team and plays with Perreault and roslovic on 4th line.

I've thought of him as a wild card all summer. After last season he certainly looks ready to take the next step. If he is in camp it will be fun to watch the internal competition for the last couple roster spots.

 

[Lempo]

This is good news. I'm very curious about the amount of performance bonuses.

Max $850k Schedule A bonus, no Schedule B bonus. No sense for him to push for a speculative B bonus that he won't get anyway because he won't be league Top 10 forward in G/A/P/PpG or a trophy nominee (Calder won't do for bonus), no sense for Jets to tie cap to such bonus.

$925k per, incl. $92.5k signing bonuses. Possibly an European Assignment clause.

 

[Bob E]

Iltalehti, a Finnish tabloid reports that Vesalainen is very close to signing with Jets. They say it's likely to get done this weekend.

Happy to hear this. I think he’s ready to take the next step in his career in North America.

In 2-3 years, this kid could have us forgetting all about guys like Perreault, Copp, Armia, Dano and Petan.

 

[KingBogo]

It makes sense that this weekend is the pressure point date to get the kid signed. The Jets no doubt want him to play in the Young Stars tournament Sept 7-9. I believe they have on on ice day in Winnipeg prior and he would need a couple days before that to adjust to the time zone shift. Basically gives him a week to get organized before moving to Winnipeg for the season. Either with the Jets or the Moose he will be moving to NA, not like a CHL eligible player who signs his ELC and goes back to his junior team.

 

[Trilliann]

Max $850k Schedule A bonus, no Schedule B bonus. No sense for him to push for a speculative B bonus that he won't get anyway because he won't be league Top 10 forward in G/A/P/PpG or a trophy nominee (Calder won't do for bonus), no sense for Jets to tie cap to such bonus.

$925k per, incl. $92.5k signing bonuses. Possibly an European Assignment clause.

A reverse jinx, nice

 

[Lempo]

With ELC signing age of 19, he'll be Slide eligible and won't burn a year off his ELC unless he plays 10+ games in NHL this season.

 

[Weezeric]

With ELC signing age of 19, he'll be Slide eligible and won't burn a year off his ELC unless he plays 10+ games in NHL this season.

That’s what I foresee happening. He plays on the moose for the season like roslovic did. Having a middle six winger for 3 years on an ELC with minimal bonuses will be huge for the jets between 2019-2022.

 

[Lempo]

That’s what I foresee happening. He plays on the moose for the season like roslovic did. Having a middle six winger for 3 years on an ELC with minimal bonuses will be huge for the jets between 2019-2022.

He's going to have the max A bonuses of $850k though, and he'll be totally worth it if he hits the bonus category demands like 20G/35A/60P or top 6 forward ToI for $212.500 each.

Minimal enough, but he's shown enough in SML to get it on his ELC and can be expected to hit some.

 

[avgard]

he vesalainen can be very strong and playing very good from all along camp at september and training games. he very huge 192 cm and can be very strong body, impossible to take puck from. like armia sort of player almost .

if and mostly, he look like this then he should must play at least at 2nd line . i dont accept this some player have big Money contract and must play therefore at high line. if vesalainen dominating say third line then he must be to second line at least. i get very angry if he staying 3rd or 4th line

[mod]

 

[Saintb]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ended up on the first or second line this year. On the Moose.

 

[JetsFan815]

having had armia here still team could have built HOCKEYS ABSOLUTE BEST LINE WITH LAINE, ARMIA, VESALAINEN, if vesalainen as good as believed. absolute monster 1st line, maybe laine cutted also his stick abit. armia C. but this past now. when laine cutting stick he also maybe can be C

I know this avgard and all but he didn't even play on the 1st line on his Liiga team and you are calling him to be on the top line on the Jets?

 

[ffh]

cant see dano or petan beating him out for that open 4th line spot with Perreault and roslovic.

 

[KingBogo]

So are there any further rumours in Finland about a pending Vaselainen signing this weekend? It would be nice to see him signed and confirmed for camp.