Player Discussion: Kristian Vesalainen [Update: Signed ELC]

[Trilliann]

So are there any further rumours in Finland about a pending Vaselainen signing this weekend? It would be nice to see him signed and confirmed for camp.

I haven't seen anything new

 

[KingBogo]

I haven't seen anything new

Part of me is thinking that the Vaselainen signing is holding up the Morrissey signing. The Jets are so tight to the cap that any significant performance bonuses will impact what they can pay Morrissey. Most likely IMO is they have a # worked out with Morrissey that limits the available performance bonus for Vaselainen and the agent is pushing for more.

 

[Whileee]

Part of me is thinking that the Vaselainen signing is holding up the Morrissey signing. The Jets are so tight to the cap that any significant performance bonuses will impact what they can pay Morrissey. Most likely IMO is they have a # worked out with Morrissey that limits the available performance bonus for Vaselainen and the agent is pushing for more.

I think they might be just waiting for them both to be in town to make a bit of a PR splash.

 

[Trilliann]

Part of me is thinking that the Vaselainen signing is holding up the Morrissey signing. The Jets are so tight to the cap that any significant performance bonuses will impact what they can pay Morrissey. Most likely IMO is they have a # worked out with Morrissey that limits the available performance bonus for Vaselainen and the agent is pushing for more.

There have been some rumours that it's about wanting a "Euro clause" , that he'd choose KHL over AHL, but I don't know how legit those rumours are

 

[KingBogo]

I think they might be just waiting for them both to be in town to make a bit of a PR splash.

You very well might be right on this and it is only my impatience on these 2 signings that is making me a little anxious for them to happen. On the other hand I'm not sure why the Jets feel they need a PR splash to get the season going. After last season's playoff run, just opening camp will have the city's attention. If you want a real PR splash announce an 8 year Laine extension, then you would have the whole league's attention.

 

[Whileee]

You very well might be right on this and it is only my impatience on these 2 signings that is making me a little anxious for them to happen. On the other hand I'm not sure why the Jets feel they need a PR splash to get the season going. After last season's playoff run, just opening camp will have the city's attention. If you want a real PR splash announce an 8 year Laine extension, then you would have the whole league's attention.

There's also the practical thing of being present to sign the contract. I'm not concerned at all, really.

 

[KingBogo]

There have been some rumours that it's about wanting a "Euro clause" , that he'd choose KHL over AHL, but I don't know how legit those rumours are

This is interesting, but makes total sense. No doubt the Jets would be pushing against it wanting him playing in the AHL on the Moose if he doesn't crack the lineup.

 

[voyageur]

Do you think he would make the team if he signs? Of all the 19 year olds that made the team only Trouba was immediately impactful.

Ehlers showed flashes but went into cold spells too. Connor was not ready at 19, at all. Scheifele got sent back to juniors at 19. Roslovic didn't emerge until almost a season and a half of seasoning. Laine made it at 18, on raw talent, but you could easily say that his defensive game only stepped up later in the year, last season. Especially coming over from Europe, it will take time to adjust to space and speed of the game. Going to the K, while playing with more professional talent, doesn't give the Jets the ability to groom him for the NHL. Maybe he gets the Connor special of 30 NHL games and NHL pay before demotion. But for a contending team that's not the way you should work, I believe.

 

[KingBogo]

Do you think he would make the team if he signs? Of all the 19 year olds that made the team only Trouba was immediately impactful.

Ehlers showed flashes but went into cold spells too. Connor was not ready at 19, at all. Scheifele got sent back to juniors at 19. Roslovic didn't emerge until almost a season and a half of seasoning. Laine made it at 18, on raw talent, but you could easily say that his defensive game only stepped up later in the year, last season. Especially coming over from Europe, it will take time to adjust to space and speed of the game. Going to the K, while playing with more professional talent, doesn't give the Jets the ability to groom him for the NHL. Maybe he gets the Connor special of 30 NHL games and NHL pay before demotion. But for a contending team that's not the way you should work, I believe.

For me this one of the most interesting things to watch for in camp. By all indications he is top tier prospect. Someone we were very fortunate getting as late as we did. His season last year against men in Liiga would suggest he is pretty close to being ready. Size and speed are not concerns. Most likely he would start on the Moose and would be given opportunity with the Jets as an injury call up. But we won't really know until we see him in camp.

 

[Lempo]

There have been some rumours that it's about wanting a "Euro clause" , that he'd choose KHL over AHL, but I don't know how legit those rumours are

He probably wants it but just as a safety precaution. Tolvanen did get one. It doesn't have to mean that he (or Tolvanen) would outright refuse the Moose (or Admirals) assignment, as they may need the adjustment to small rink for their own benefit. It's just that your ELC may be traded to any team any time and you may at that point want to opt for KHL instead of bussing around on year three if there's no room in the NHL roster.

 

[Board Bard]

You very well might be right on this and it is only my impatience on these 2 signings that is making me a little anxious for them to happen. On the other hand I'm not sure why the Jets feel they need a PR splash to get the season going. After last season's playoff run, just opening camp will have the city's attention. If you want a real PR splash announce an 8 year Laine extension, then you would have the whole league's attention.

Yeah, the Jets don't need PR splashes and I doubt they delay things much to accommodate them. They already know any kind of annoucement is going to get a big splash, and even if there isn't an annoucement they've got 95 percent of the local media doing PR splashes for them every day.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Part of me is thinking that the Vaselainen signing is holding up the Morrissey signing. The Jets are so tight to the cap that any significant performance bonuses will impact what they can pay Morrissey. Most likely IMO is they have a # worked out with Morrissey that limits the available performance bonus for Vaselainen and the agent is pushing for more.

I doubt they are related. Although it's possible his game is NHL ready, it's much more likely it's not & being in the AHL costs the team nothing in terms of cap space.

I don't see K-Ves playing more than 10 games in the NHL this season. The benefits of his contracts sliding and having him on an ELC until 2021-2022 are vast for a team pressed hard for cap space. An ELC slide will have benefits down the road, particularly if his game is as good as many suspect.

The Jets top 6 is perfectly fine. Placing this rookie in the bottom 6 for the full season would likely end up costing the team an extra million, needlessly expose a forward to waiver or necessitate a trade, hamper his progression & offer little more than Dano or Petan anyways.

 

[ffh]

I doubt they are related. Although it's possible his game is NHL ready, it's much more likely it's not & being in the AHL costs the team nothing in terms of cap space.

I don't see K-Ves playing more than 10 games in the NHL this season. The benefits of his contracts sliding and having him on an ELC until 2021-2022 are vast for a team pressed hard for cap space. An ELC slide will have benefits down the road, particularly if his game is as good as many suspect.

The Jets top 6 is perfectly fine. Placing this rookie in the bottom 6 for the full season would likely end up costing the team an extra million, needlessly expose a forward to waiver or necessitate a trade, hamper his progression & offer little more than Dano or Petan anyways.

I doubt he would play on top 6 for many years. Wheeler is very likely to get extended and he would not beat any of our top 4 wingers for a spot for a long time. Playing on the 4th line is a perfect way to break in. Him making team team on 4th line doesn't expose Dano or petan to waivers just the press box. Appleton or lemieux also making team exposes them two to waivers.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I doubt he would play on top 6 for many years. Wheeler is very likely to get extended and he would not beat any of our top 4 wingers for a spot for a long time. Playing on the 4th line is a perfect way to break in. Him making team team on 4th line doesn't expose Dano or petan to waivers just the press box. Appleton or lemieux also making team exposes them two to waivers.

Write down our list of forwards then rethink the bolded. You're wrong.

 

[KingBogo]

I doubt they are related. Although it's possible his game is NHL ready, it's much more likely it's not & being in the AHL costs the team nothing in terms of cap space.

I don't see K-Ves playing more than 10 games in the NHL this season. The benefits of his contracts sliding and having him on an ELC until 2021-2022 are vast for a team pressed hard for cap space. An ELC slide will have benefits down the road, particularly if his game is as good as many suspect.

The Jets top 6 is perfectly fine. Placing this rookie in the bottom 6 for the full season would likely end up costing the team an extra million, needlessly expose a forward to waiver or necessitate a trade, hamper his progression & offer little more than Dano or Petan anyways.

IMO if the Jets sign him and bring him to North America, they have to give him a legit opportunity to make the big team and budget accordingly. I don't think ELC status 4 years from now will be a make or break on him making the team. Way too many moving parts and unknowns between then and now. I think the Jets plan on putting the best possible team on the ice this season and take another big run at a cup, and if Vaselainen proves to be a better option than Petan or Dano he will play above them.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

IMO if the Jets sign him and bring him to North America, they have to give him a legit opportunity to make the big team and budget accordingly. I don't think ELC status 4 years from now will be a make or break on him making the team. Way too many moving parts and unknowns between then and now. I think the Jets plan on putting the best possible team on the ice this season and take another big run at a cup, and if Vaselainen proves to be a better option than Petan or Dano he will play above them.

I'll give you that & one of K-Ves' biggest strengths is his board work. One could argue his presence this year made Armia expendable.

I would doubt however he makes the team out of camp, but rather joins the team as the season progresses. He'll be a much better player starting in the AHL.

 

[ffh]

Write down our list of forwards then rethink the bolded. You're wrong.

don't have too i am not wrong you are. if he makes the team he will be on the 4th line with roslovic and Perreault. meaning the jets keep 1 dman and 2 forwards to complete the 23 man roster. dano and petan will be the 2 forwards.

 

[CaptainChef]

I'll give you that & one of K-Ves' biggest strengths is his board work. One could argue his presence this year made Armia expendable.

I would doubt however he makes the team out of camp, but rather joins the team as the season progresses. He'll be a much better player starting in the AHL.

Yep, my thought too. He could very well put a good enough showing in TC to make the team, but he'd have to be head and shoulders over other options to start the year. Exposing Petan or Dano to waivers is not in the best interest of the Jets right now, so unless he looks capable of playing in the top 6 (which he wouldn't do even if he looked capable), he'll be sent down to start the season. Playing well in the A & then biding his time to move up ala Connor, Ros & other recent examples.

 

[ffh]

Yep, my thought too. He could very well put a good enough showing in TC to make the team, but he'd have to be head and shoulders over other options to start the year. Exposing Petan or Dano to waivers is not in the best interest of the Jets right now, so unless he looks capable of playing in the top 6 (which he wouldn't do even if he looked capable), he'll be sent down to start the season. Playing well in the A & then biding his time to move up ala Connor, Ros & other recent examples.

How does petan or Dano get put on waivers if Vesalainen makes team as 12th forward.

 

[CaptainChef]

How does petan or Dano get put on waivers if Vesalainen makes team as 12th forward.

Right now there's room, but I would not be shocked to see the Jets sign a role-playing veteran (probably someone with PK "expertise") before TC starts. Doesn't have to make sense, just PMo likes his quota of veterans

 

[KingBogo]

Yep, my thought too. He could very well put a good enough showing in TC to make the team, but he'd have to be head and shoulders over other options to start the year. Exposing Petan or Dano to waivers is not in the best interest of the Jets right now, so unless he looks capable of playing in the top 6 (which he wouldn't do even if he looked capable), he'll be sent down to start the season. Playing well in the A & then biding his time to move up ala Connor, Ros & other recent examples.

All 3 of Petan, Dano and Vaselainen could make the roster.

Laine-Scheifele-Wheeler
Connor-Rosie-Ehlers
MP-Little-Vaselainen
Copp-Lowry-Tanev
Petan/Dano

Morrissey-Trouba
Morrow-Buff
Kuli-Myers
Chariot

Both Niku and Poolman are waiver exempt. Though I'd much prefer they keep Niku up and play him with Buff and have Morrow as the 7th defenseman. I personally have no problem shopping Chariot around if there are any takers.

 

[KingBogo]

Right now there's room, but I would not be shocked to see the Jets sign a role-playing veteran (probably someone with PK "expertise") before TC starts. Doesn't have to make sense, just PMo likes his quota of veterans

Too many guys have now graduated from their ELC's now. The Jets need to keep some roster flexibility. As it is they have 7 defenseman who all require waivers. I don't think they would want to handcuff themselves by also having 14 forwards waiver eligible.

 

[CaptainChef]

Too many guys have now graduated from their ELC's now. The Jets need to keep some roster flexibility. As it is they have 7 defenseman who all require waivers. I don't think they would want to handcuff themselves by also having 14 forwards waiver eligible.

Makes sense, just hope thats the way they are thinking

 

[KingBogo]

Makes sense, just hope thats the way they are thinking

Putting aside aside injury call ups, it's a nice option to be able to have any one of Niku, Poolman, Vaselainen, Lemieux, Appleton up with the big club if their play merits it without having to waive someone.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

don't have too i am not wrong you are. if he makes the team he will be on the 4th line with roslovic and Perreault. meaning the jets keep 1 dman and 2 forwards to complete the 23 man roster. dano and petan will be the 2 forwards.

Thanks for the extra work then..
3) Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler
6) Ehlers-Little-Laine
9) Copp-Lowry-Tanev
12) Perreault-Roslovic-(Petan/Dano)

15) Morrissey-Trouba
17) Kulikov-Myers
19) Chiarot-Byfulien
21) Morrow-(Poolman/Niku)*

23-Hellebyuck-Broissoit

Waiver eligible are in italics.

Unless Connor or Roslovic are playing in the AHL (highly unlikely) there's no room for K-Ves without exposable someone else.

The only argument that negates that is the Jets going with a 14-7-2 as opposed to 13-8-2. That places Poolman in the AHL & without doubt negates Niku's ability to make the team.

If the side argument becomes Chiarot/Morrow are expendable, a quick list of the defensive depth in the AHL besides one (both in your scenario) of Niku or Poolman is downright frightening. Jets are no position to be risking any member of the defence to waivers. I wouldn't care risking Chiarot/Morrow if the options after them weren't Stanley, Schilling or Bourque.