Player Discussion Koskinen Re-Signed PT2

Ruudukkopupuset

Registered User
Mar 29, 2018
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Well i guess thats the point. how come no other team was willing to offer more than a two way contract. The KHL is still a solid league for sure, but still... it isn't the NHL. Roughly I expect a 930 sv% to become a 915% one in the NHL, in the same number of games. However, add 20 games to that will decrease it by more. With a big guy like Koski perhaps a lot. I think he would be a solid NHL backup, but that isn't the contract we offered him.

You do not seem to understand that KHL is free for all league when it comes every single contract. The highest bidder gets the player as money speaks. All Northern American leagues work under huge restrictions, controlling player rights as they were slaves. If both Edmonton Oilers and SKA were in the KHL between 2014-2018, Connor McDavid would play with Koskinen in SKA, with Talbot and Jakupov starring for the Oilers.

KHL is therefore organized in a pyramid as all are Eurasian leagues. Koskinen stood at the absolute top of this pyramid of ranking for years. He was already paid NHL salary through his play. To muddle the contract situation from Koskinen's (and rest of the world) point of view is to throw away years of evidence. I can understand why you do that. But I do not understand how it helps your understanding of ice hockey, the game or player evaluation. You have much to learn.

The situation would be far more alarming if the Oilers as a whole worked under the logic that Koskinen did not exist before this season hence he cannot remain to be the first choice goaltender of Oilers because NHL is some mysterious land and not a league in which world class goaltending coaches such as Jussi Parkkila (who created Rask and Bobrovski), wonder why aren't they allowed to train freely. NHLPA, unlike anywhere else, restricts the daily training time that a goaltending coach has with his goalies.
 

jonu

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Dec 11, 2014
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Well i guess thats the point. how come no other team was willing to offer more than a two way contract. The KHL is still a solid league for sure, but still... it isn't the NHL. Roughly I expect a 930 sv% to become a 915% one in the NHL, in the same number of games. However, add 20 games to that will decrease it by more. With a big guy like Koski perhaps a lot. I think he would be a solid NHL backup, but that isn't the contract we offered him.

SV% is way down league wide so while I'd say your estimate might be correct for 15-16, 16-17 or 17-18 I'm not sure we can apply it to this year, there was a good post on Flyers board (Carter Hart thread I think) about save percentages this season and in the past.

The 2 way contract stuff was before, but after having strong showings with team Finland for 2 years in a row at Worlds (and Olympics too) he started to garner more interest from teams. He also had a 2 year contract signed in 2016 with SKA meaning he couldn't have come before it ran out.

In an interview Koskinen said that up until this point the pay was too good to pass up in KHL and that he enjoyed it in SKA so he didn't see the need to change scenery, but now(September 2018) felt it was the right time to start looking at new challenges. He also said that as a 30-year old goalie the most improvement he is going to get is through technical training rather than physical training.


Another thing is to consider that Koskinen played for one of the top teams in the KHL with a good system while here it is not the case. I just feel that people are jumping the gun on Koskinen, judge his this season by his current contract and start worrying (or bitching) about his contract next year if it doesn't get better.
 

jonu

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Dec 11, 2014
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It depends so much on era.

But since the lockout statistically, for starters:

05-06:

Decent/ok (average starter): .900 sv%
Pretty good (above average): .905 sv%
Borderline elite (top 10): .910 sv%

06-09:

Decent/ok (average starter): .910 sv%
Pretty good (above average): .914 sv%
Borderline elite (top 10): .917 sv%

09-14:

Decent/ok (average starter): .915 sv%
Pretty good (above average): .917 sv%
Borderline elite (top 10): .920 sv%

14-16:

Decent/ok (average starter): .918 sv%
Pretty good (above average): .920 sv%
Borderline elite (top 10): .922 sv%

16-18:

Decent/ok (average starter): .915 sv%
Pretty good (above average): .917 sv%
Borderline elite (top 10): .920 sv%

18-19:

Decent/ok (average starter): .914 sv%
Pretty good (above average): .916 sv%
Borderline elite (top 10): .918 sv%

Just for reference
 
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McGoMcD

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Aug 14, 2005
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SV% is way down league wide so while I'd say your estimate might be correct for 15-16, 16-17 or 17-18 I'm not sure we can apply it to this year, there was a good post on Flyers board (Carter Hart thread I think) about save percentages this season and in the past.

The 2 way contract stuff was before, but after having strong showings with team Finland for 2 years in a row at Worlds (and Olympics too) he started to garner more interest from teams. He also had a 2 year contract signed in 2016 with SKA meaning he couldn't have come before it ran out.

In an interview Koskinen said that up until this point the pay was too good to pass up in KHL and that he enjoyed it in SKA so he didn't see the need to change scenery, but now(September 2018) felt it was the right time to start looking at new challenges. He also said that as a 30-year old goalie the most improvement he is going to get is through technical training rather than physical training.


Another thing is to consider that Koskinen played for one of the top teams in the KHL with a good system while here it is not the case. I just feel that people are jumping the gun on Koskinen, judge his this season by his current contract and start worrying (or *****ing) about his contract next year if it doesn't get better.

Ya, well thats it. The issue is hard to address without knowing the team. We all know that sv% isn't a perfect measure for goalie performance. So saying he played for a great team in the KHL suggests that perhaps his sv% was overrated there. I am sure it is underrated here, but still, that leaves a lot to be desired.

Ideally there would be some perfect stat to show how good he was in the KHL, but I know that doesn't exist. So I guess we wait and find out. I am just really concerned about the fact no one seemed to want to pry him away from the KHL other than Edmonton. Seems like most teams saw him as a possible back up, yet after half a season with a bad Sv % we see him as a starter.
 

MikeGrier99

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May 20, 2017
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So it's going to cost us north of $4.5 million per to re-sign Talbot if he's the starter by the end of the year? Nice move Oilers, well thought out, and a sign that this organization is in great hands.
 
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McShogun99

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Aug 30, 2009
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If they waited until the end of the season they could have signed Koskinen for 1.5 million. I'm surprised they didn't offer Chaisson an 8 year, 64 million dollar deal after his hot streak.
 
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Zaddy

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Feb 8, 2013
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With Talbot starting to play better recently and Koski getting worse this contract is just looking really premature. Now they're pretty much forced to deal away Talbs who might be the better goalie long-term. Just mind-boggling that they'd sign that deal right before Chia got canned.
 
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redgrant

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Nov 2, 2013
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With Talbot starting to play better recently and Koski getting worse this contract is just looking really premature. Now they're pretty much forced to deal away Talbs who might be the better goalie long-term. Just mind-boggling that they'd sign that deal right before Chia got canned.

1 game = better recently?

He still sucks.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
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With Talbot starting to play better recently and Koski getting worse this contract is just looking really premature. Now they're pretty much forced to deal away Talbs who might be the better goalie long-term. Just mind-boggling that they'd sign that deal right before Chia got canned.

Yep. Talbot has really started to turn it around again in my view. Game tonight from his was impeccable as well as his first two periods in last game. The form is looking really good right now and whenever Talbot is looking like this he starts to heat up.
 
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Zaddy

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Feb 8, 2013
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1 game = better recently?

He still sucks.

Nah he's been largely good last few games but hung out to dry by the defense. Definitely been playing better recently compared to how he's played for most of the season.
 

The Nuge

Some say…
Jan 26, 2011
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So it's going to cost us north of $4.5 million per to re-sign Talbot if he's the starter by the end of the year? Nice move Oilers, well thought out, and a sign that this organization is in great hands.

Ya best case scenario would be try to extend him ASAP for say 3 years @2.5, before his numbers rebound too much. We’re not into the goalies for any more than this year then, and after Koskinen continues to suck, you’ve still got Cam. My nightmare, as I’ve said all year, is that we’re going to let the best goalie we’ve had in a LONG time walk and be right back where we started. Or rather, be in an even worse position because we’re stuck with Koskinen’s contract
 

MikeGrier99

Registered User
May 20, 2017
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It seems inevitable that Talbot would pull a Dubnyk and stand on his head somewhere else. The Koskinen signing was a knee jerk of all knee jerk moves. They can't even blame it on Chia because it was a self proclaimed "group decision" according to Nicholson. How this organization can remain so reckless after all these years is beyond me.
 
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Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
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It seems inevitable that Talbot would pull a Dubnyk and stand on his head somewhere else. The Koskinen signing was a knee jerk of all knee jerk moves. They can't even blame it on Chia because it was a self proclaimed "group decision" according to Nicholson. How this organization can remain so reckless after all these years is beyond me.
The contract is truly one of the most astonishingly awful contracts in the league.

It's not even like Koskinen was playing well when they signed the deal. In the 1 month before they signed him he had a GAA over 4 and an .877 sv%. He had been playing genuinely terrible hockey for nearly 6 weeks. Terrible play he has unfortunately continued since the deal was signed.

I just can't fathom the decision making that went into 1) thinking you'd seen enough to think this guy could be a starter and 2) thinking the 3 year, 4.5M deal with a NMC was somehow in line with what is remotely reasonable for a goalie who had ~30 games played in the NHL.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
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It seems inevitable that Talbot would pull a Dubnyk and stand on his head somewhere else. The Koskinen signing was a knee jerk of all knee jerk moves. They can't even blame it on Chia because it was a self proclaimed "group decision" according to Nicholson. How this organization can remain so reckless after all these years is beyond me.

Incredible isnt it. Lots of posters are defending that signing as well.

Now this group gets to plan all of the potential moves between now and trade deadline day.
 
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MikeGrier99

Registered User
May 20, 2017
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Here's $30.7 million dollars of cap space we're on the book for next season:

Lucic $6 Million
Koskinen $4.5 Million
Manning $2.25 Million
Kassian $1.95 Million
Benning $1.9 Million
Russell $4 Million
Spooner $2 Million
Brodziak $1 Million
Sekera $5.5 Million
Pouliot $1.3 Million
Gryba $0.3 Million

That's 38% percent of our cap space and we might not have a single impact player among them next year. All of them combined are on pace for less points than Leon Draisaitl this year. That's a whole lot of dead weight.
 
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Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
43,685
15,233
Edmonton
Here's $30.7 million dollars of cap space we're on the book for next season:

Lucic $6 Million
Koskinen $4.5 Million
Manning $2.25 Million
Kassian $1.95 Million
Benning $1.9 Million
Russell $4 Million
Spooner $2 Million
Brodziak $1 Million
Sekera $5.5 Million
Pouliot $1.3 Million
Gryba $0.3 Million

That's 38% percent of our cap space and we might not have a single impact player among them next year. All of them combined are on pace for less points than Leon Draisaitl this year. That's a whole lot of dead weight.
Russell and Benning aren't dead weight. I wouldn't defend the rest though.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
33,175
13,039
Russell and Benning aren't dead weight. I wouldn't defend the rest though.

I agree although I still have hope for Sekera. If he can come back to 80% of what he was he will really solidify the 3rd pairing.

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Russell
Sekera - Jones/Gravel/Benning

I am fine with those pairings.
 

Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
43,685
15,233
Edmonton
I agree although I still have hope for Sekera. If he can come back to 80% of what he was he will really solidify the 3rd pairing.

Klefbom - Larsson
Nurse - Russell
Sekera - Jones/Gravel/Benning

I am fine with those pairings.
Sekera is too much of a unknown at this point. Last we saw him he was the worst defender on the team. By a lot. We can hope. But I'm not holding out much personally.
 

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