Player Discussion Koskinen Re-Signed PT2

[The Nuge]

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It's absolutely appalling that the Oilers hitched their wagon to this player when they did. What was the rush to get him signed? Hell he might've made for an attractive TDL piece. Instead like always they played poker with their cards facing everyone else.

Varlamov -> wants 5m+ for sure, isnt worth that
Kinkaid -> with current cap more than 5m too, probably worth it
Mrazek -> 4m max but not worth it. Way too inconsistent and will probably sign at Carolina anyways.
Lehner -> Will probably stay an Islander with the trust he is getting there + Mitch Korn. Also with his mental issues stability will do him good. On open market if he keeps this season going he could command something like 6m+ easily.
Howard -> He's no better than Koskinen or Talbot, and as I can't compare to Koskinen I say that he is inconsistent compared to Talbot.
Ward -> I don't know if you're for real with this, he's a back-up now.
Elliot -> Don't really know much about him so not gonna comment.
Talbot -> Well, having Talbot + Koski both signed for 4.5m wouldn't be that horrible if they can work together like Greiss + Lehner. Its 9m on goalies but thats still on "ok" level to spend on goalies. There are teams that spend more worse or slightly better that its not really warranted to call their situation any better. A quality 1a 1b tandem with Talbot + Koski would be ideal in the long run.

That doesn’t make this contract for this goalie any better.

You can debate Koskinen is a better goalie than talbot right now. Unfortunately that doesn’t really matter. The bigger issue isn’t that Koskinen may or may not be outplaying talbot. It’s that it is becoming increasingly difficult to argue he’s any sort of a starter going forward. Game by game his stats fall and we get further and further removed from the obviously unsustainable stretch of games he had.

The first contract we signed him to. The 1 year 2.5M one doesn’t even look like a worthwhile deal right now.

The fact that the oilers management thought it was a good idea to not only re-sign this player when they did, but to give him the dollars/term they did is indefensible.

And unfortunately this isn’t even a Chiarelli signing we can point to, this was the people who are currently still in charge who did this deal.

It's huge as a player . You come out flying and after the first shift your down 1- nothing??? It's a huge momentum swing and deflating as fook as a player

I'm all for this too, provided that the Talbot contract is a year shorter or longer... we need to have an opportunity to audition the best of our prospect G's before too long. (and we need to keep drafting them and let them percolate this next 4 years so that we can eventually have a longer term solution from internal assets.

I think this deal shows that the people currently in charge are still a major problem. If they had a ton of cap space next year I could almost stomach this deal, but they must know that every dollar they spend has to be carefully assessed. As you say making this deal when they did was indefensible even if he turns it around.

It was a mistake to sign him to such an expensive deal in the first place. If they cut his price in half...

Spending $9M on goalies next year would be terrible. You have pretty much made it impossible to improve the roster or to take advantage of any opportunities. Realistically, given the Oilers cap situation their goal should have been to reduce the amount the spent on goalies next year from this year. Koskinen at $3.5M and McElhenny at $1.7M would have saved the team almost enough cap space to actually have a shot at upgrading one wing spot. You could turn Reider into Dzingle with only a minor add.

Based on his record today who is giving Koskinen more than $3.5M? Maybe someone will but more likely Koskinen would be pressed to get more than what he is making now because there are so many known commodities on the market next year and teams can see that if you guess wrong and over pay a guy to be your back up the cap consequences are severe.

I question the fortitude of a player who let's that get them down.

Click to read more...

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Terrible contract and Koskinen has only boosted that idea since this was announced.

 

[jonu]

Theres some holy hot takes there, a 10 game stretch where NEITHER of the goalies have not looked good due to issues on team defense is evidence that Koskinen is not worth even his current contract.. So far this season Koskinen has been worth every penny of his current contract, and only time will tell if he will be worth his next years contract. This season goalie play has been fluctuating in the league as a whole, with examples like Rinne being 91.4%, Murray 91.0%, Hellebuyck 91.0%, Dubnyk 91.4%, Varlamox 90.5%, Quick 90.4%, Bobrovsky 90.1% and Jones at 89.6%. Those are some big names with big contracts playing behind way better teams and their numbers are pretty comparable to Edmonton duo when taking team quality to account.

 

[McGoMcD]

Theres some holy hot takes there, a 10 game stretch where NEITHER of the goalies have not looked good due to issues on team defense is evidence that Koskinen is not worth even his current contract.. So far this season Koskinen has been worth every penny of his current contract, and only time will tell if he will be worth his next years contract. This season goalie play has been fluctuating in the league as a whole, with examples like Rinne being 91.4%, Murray 91.0%, Hellebuyck 91.0%, Dubnyk 91.4%, Varlamox 90.5%, Quick 90.4%, Bobrovsky 90.1% and Jones at 89.6%. Those are some big names with big contracts playing behind way better teams and their numbers are pretty comparable to Edmonton duo when taking team quality to account.

People who say it is a bad contract based on a few games are wrong. But I suggested it was a bad contract not based on a few games but his entire career. He has never played in the NHL and never played more than 40 games in a season. nothing he did before this year suggests he can be an NHL starter, yet we gave him that kind of a contract and money. Makes no sense.

Last few games are a small sample size, but it fits with the bigger picture which is not good.

 

[MarkStreitPPGOD]

Theres some holy hot takes there, a 10 game stretch where NEITHER of the goalies have not looked good due to issues on team defense is evidence that Koskinen is not worth even his current contract.. So far this season Koskinen has been worth every penny of his current contract, and only time will tell if he will be worth his next years contract. This season goalie play has been fluctuating in the league as a whole, with examples like Rinne being 91.4%, Murray 91.0%, Hellebuyck 91.0%, Dubnyk 91.4%, Varlamox 90.5%, Quick 90.4%, Bobrovsky 90.1% and Jones at 89.6%. Those are some big names with big contracts playing behind way better teams and their numbers are pretty comparable to Edmonton duo when taking team quality to account.

Uh, no just no. Anyone knowing anything about goalie mechanics knows this guy is flawed. There's a reason he hasn't been in the nhl for years

 

[Little Fury]

Theres some holy hot takes there, a 10 game stretch where NEITHER of the goalies have not looked good due to issues on team defense is evidence that Koskinen is not worth even his current contract.. So far this season Koskinen has been worth every penny of his current contract, and only time will tell if he will be worth his next years contract. This season goalie play has been fluctuating in the league as a whole, with examples like Rinne being 91.4%, Murray 91.0%, Hellebuyck 91.0%, Dubnyk 91.4%, Varlamox 90.5%, Quick 90.4%, Bobrovsky 90.1% and Jones at 89.6%. Those are some big names with big contracts playing behind way better teams and their numbers are pretty comparable to Edmonton duo when taking team quality to account.

He's had like 10 good games.

 

[Hockey Nightmare]

Silver lining: this helps clarify that nobody in this org who may have been responsible for this supposedly 'collective' decision should now be elevated to GM.

 

[bucks_oil]

Uh, no just no. Anyone knowing anything about goalie mechanics knows this guy is flawed. There's a reason he hasn't been in the nhl for years

Hasek says he doesn't care. The guy only needs to stop the puck. Granted he's not doing it right now, but to Jonu's implicit point, nobody could with our team playing such shoddy defense presently.

 

[Arpeggio]

Just a brutal contract to give out, only made worse by the completely non-sensical timing. Like even if he plays well for the duration of the contract, the time that it was signed will still make zero sense.

 

[bucks_oil]

People who say it is a bad contract based on a few games are wrong. But I suggested it was a bad contract not based on a few games but his entire career. He has never played in the NHL and never played more than 40 games in a season. nothing he did before this year suggests he can be an NHL starter, yet we gave him that kind of a contract and money. Makes no sense.

Last few games are a small sample size, but it fits with the bigger picture which is not good.

While I agree that the decision was based on precious few games to know what we had... I'd like to point out:
1) $4.5M is not bonafide starter money in this league. It's tandem money, just like we gave Talbot.
2) Talbot is still a good goalie going through a crisis of confidence on a team that gives him no confidence. Yes guys, sometimes the play of 25 guys matters more than of one guy... how a team plays in front of a goalie also affects they way the goalie will play and affects his confidence... its not rocket science but it seems to not be something well known to the Oilers. Here's what we objectively know about Talbot:
a) he can make a bad team into a good one for 70 plus games of a season
b) he can't do it every year
c) that doesn't mean he wouldnt be a good starter on a good team
d) we don't yet know, and may never know whether he can be a 1A starter playing 50 games a year... we'll only find out if he sticks around next year and washes his brain with Tequila and beer this summer (since that's what it takes to recover from losing your starting role)
3) Koskinen ALSO isn't capable of making a bad team into a good one... but that doesn't mean he can't earn his $4.5M in a 1A/1B scenario.

If you complainers want a goalie who can work with our mad cap defense, season in, season out AND play "team shrink" since our guys wilt at the first sign of adversity, we're going to have to pay >$7M + backup... and even then we'll still have 2017-2018 Carey Price type seasons.

 

[A91]

Just a brutal contract to give out, only made worse by the completely non-sensical timing. Like even if he plays well for the duration of the contract, the time that it was signed will still make zero sense.

Easy explanation. Literally everyone involved in decision making on the Oilers is unintelligent.
No other explanation.

 

[Jepprey]

He's had like 2 quality starts in the past 2 months after a hot start in November. Still confused how he got a raise.

 

[Stoneman89]

Hasek says he doesn't care. The guy only needs to stop the puck. Granted he's not doing it right now, but to Jonu's implicit point, nobody could with our team playing such shoddy defense presently.

Hasek is in the NHL hall of fame. He was unorthodox, not bad mechanics. There is a difference.

 

[Stoneman89]

While I agree that the decision was based on precious few games to know what we had... I'd like to point out:
1) $4.5M is not bonafide starter money in this league. It's tandem money, just like we gave Talbot.
2) Talbot is still a good goalie going through a crisis of confidence on a team that gives him no confidence. Yes guys, sometimes the play of 25 guys matters more than of one guy... how a team plays in front of a goalie also affects they way the goalie will play and affects his confidence... its not rocket science but it seems to not be something well known to the Oilers. Here's what we objectively know about Talbot:
a) he can make a bad team into a good one for 70 plus games of a season
b) he can't do it every year
c) that doesn't mean he wouldnt be a good starter on a good team
d) we don't yet know, and may never know whether he can be a 1A starter playing 50 games a year... we'll only find out if he sticks around next year and washes his brain with Tequila and beer this summer (since that's what it takes to recover from losing your starting role)
3) Koskinen ALSO isn't capable of making a bad team into a good one... but that doesn't mean he can't earn his $4.5M in a 1A/1B scenario.

If you complainers want a goalie who can work with our mad cap defense, season in, season out AND play "team shrink" since our guys wilt at the first sign of adversity, we're going to have to pay >$7M + backup... and even then we'll still have 2017-2018 Carey Price type seasons.

I believe the biggest issue is the small NHL sample size before giving out the contract. Waiting would have given us a better indication if he can even be a decent tandem bet. We have no choice now, but to hope he can somehow learn to make himself bigger in net, and grow a new catching mitt.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hasek is in the NHL hall of fame. He was unorthodox, not bad mechanics. There is a difference.

Exactly. Plus Hasek was fast, athletic, anticipated well. Koski just looks stupid on a lot of plays. If you freeze framed some of the cross ice stuff going on he would look like Gump Worsley diving on his belly trying to stop pucks.

But man, Koski's stats are just plummeting along with his form. In 30 GP we haven't even had a look at how Koskinen handles adversity, tough schedule, many games, or what he does after playing for the Oilers breaks his spirit.

This is going to be another really bad Chiarelli contract. Its my suspicion that this is what we have paid Koskinen to be a backup. Either that or we are a non entity as a team for the next 3 seasons.

Talbot was good enough to drag a team not much better than this one to the playoffs just two years ago. I've seen no indication Koskinen is the type of goalie that can do that.

 

[McTonyBrar]

This goalie is pure garbage

 

[McTonyBrar]

Hasek says he doesn't care. The guy only needs to stop the puck. Granted he's not doing it right now, but to Jonu's implicit point, nobody could with our team playing such shoddy defense presently.

Except Hasek actually stopped pucks. Koskinen stopped pucks for 10 games. Now he's allowing 3 a game

 

[Zaddy]

Lets face it, the goalies aren't the problem here, the goalie coaches are. That's going to be even more obvious once Talbot moves on to another team and becomes a legit starting goalie again. Until they're turfed and replaced by competent people it doesn't matter what the name on the back of the jersey says.

 

[oobga]

I do appreciate Nicholson making sure we know it was a collaborative decision to give Koskinen this contract.

I hope the guy can live up to the deal, I really do. Just won't be at all surprised if he doesn't. The list of goalies in NHL history that had a good run of around 1.5 months is a crazy long list full of guys that amounted to nothing.

 

[The Nuge]

Hasek says he doesn't care. The guy only needs to stop the puck. Granted he's not doing it right now, but to Jonu's implicit point, nobody could with our team playing such shoddy defense presently.

Hasek was able to get himself in front of the puck. Koskinen can’t. Just look at Domi’s goal. It’s an absolute joke that a goalie playing in the NHL could allow that.

 

[guymez]

Hasek was able to get himself in front of the puck. Koskinen can’t. Just look at Domi’s goal. It’s an absolute joke that a goalie playing in the NHL could allow that.

Yup.
That goal cost them the game. That was a multi level screw up by Koskinen.
Such a shame considering how well they played in the 3rd period.

 

[jonu]

Uh, no just no. Anyone knowing anything about goalie mechanics knows this guy is flawed. There's a reason he hasn't been in the nhl for years

I can name many goalies who are flawed and still had/have a decent career at NHL. The reason he wasn't in NHL for years is because he waited for the right chance. Why come to NA to play AHL when you can play KHL for good dollars?


Anyways, some of you might want to check the Oilers games this season to see that there is a trend where the goalie has to stand on his head with this team in order to get a W. Talbot is doing even worse than Koski but I see no bitching about him because it seems that having good technique and mechanics is so so important. Fact is that both goalies are suffering because of teamplay / quality of D.


As I've said before it's fairly obvious that so many of you goalie critics have never actually played goalie, Domi wrap-around goal is entirely on D letting Domi be free on the corner and the Larsson just standing there watching him wrap-around like that. Koski is forced to go out of his net to stop the initial redirection from Domi who is FREE because of bad defensive play. Of course he struggles to dive on the otherside of the goal when all his momentum is the other way.

3rd goal is Koskis fault for initially failing to hang up the puck at the side of the net, but after that where the goal shot comes from it's the D's fault AGAIN leaving a man open at the corner of the net. Koski is busy tracking the puck behind the net and as a goalie you just have to trust your D-men to actually keep their men to buy you time to position yourself properly if the puck quickly gets moved to the other side of the net.


It's also strange that mr Drivesaitl keeps ignoring my post now that I gave him substance in my previous one after he so longingly asked for it, still keeping the narrative about Koski's bad career stats after 30 games when it is both goalies suffering of the same disease.

 

[Raab]

People who say it is a bad contract based on a few games are wrong. But I suggested it was a bad contract not based on a few games but his entire career. He has never played in the NHL and never played more than 40 games in a season. nothing he did before this year suggests he can be an NHL starter, yet we gave him that kind of a contract and money. Makes no sense.

Last few games are a small sample size, but it fits with the bigger picture which is not good.

He’s getting low end starter money. We could actually run a tandem with what Koskinen signed for. You look around the league and I think there’s 20 goalies who make more. And the ones that make less are probably on RFA deals.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

 

[jonu]

Koskinen is over .900 in 10 of his last 21 appearances while Talbot is over .900 with 9 of his last 21 appearances, judging by Koski's next contract both are being paid aprox the same amount and are giving same kinds of results if you blindly follow the save %. Which again is inherently wrong because if both goaltenders struggle so much and they more or less pass the eye-test, then the problem is in teamplay and quality of defense. It's not like Koski or Talbot are being a James Reimer out there.