Kitchener Rangers 2020 Offseason Thread

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Generalsupdates

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Cocaine useage in junior hockey????? This would be something that team should definitely investigate. And how about drug testing?

You'd be shocked how prevalent cocaine use is in the OHL, especially a couple years ago (I'm kind of removed from it now). But like 3-4 years ago there were players on almost, if not every, team doing it
 
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93LEAFS

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You'd be shocked how prevalent cocaine use is in the OHL, especially a couple years ago (I'm kind of removed from it now). But like 3-4 years ago there were players on almost, if not every, team doing it
It's been prevalent in OHL and NHL for years. Not going to throw any players under the bus (as it would violate site rules), but when I was in London for school in the late 00's/early 10's and knew some people on the Knights I knew of at least one player who was a first-round pick and is a current NHLer who had a reputation for it. I don't really care what guys do on their own time (independently wealthy males in their 20's doing coke is whatever), but forcing a kid at a rookie party to do it is crossing so many lines it is ridiculous.
 

NOA

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You'd be shocked how prevalent cocaine use is in the OHL, especially a couple years ago (I'm kind of removed from it now). But like 3-4 years ago there were players on almost, if not every, team doing it
I have heard plenty of rumors too. And that’s not even the worst of stuff I have heard.

The stuff some of these kids “get away with” is absolutely insane. It’s the entire culture of hockey really, but particularly the CHL
 

MatthewsMoustache

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You'd be shocked how prevalent cocaine use is in the OHL, especially a couple years ago (I'm kind of removed from it now). But like 3-4 years ago there were players on almost, if not every, team doing it

I mentioned this in an earlier post, but isn’t this a result of giving 18-19 year olds massive signing bonuses on ELC’s and then sending them to junior where they have essentially no expenses? I’m sure the problem is much more than just NHL-signed players, but maybe a way to start rooting it out is not giving them absurd amounts of money until they are out of junior hockey.
 
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93LEAFS

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I mentioned this in an earlier post, but isn’t this a result of giving 18-19 year olds massive signing bonuses on ELC’s and then sending them to junior where they have essentially no expenses? I’m sure the problem is much more than just NHL-signed players, but maybe a way to start rooting it out is not giving them absurd amounts of money until they are out of junior hockey.
A bunch of kids who make it to the OHL already come from pretty wealthy backgrounds. Most of these kids' parents prior to the OHL were spending over 10k a year on their hockey careers, and most of these kids can do-no-wrong and are spoiled due to it. Some of the quotes for the amount of money spent I've heard for players like McDavid or Marner's development is absurd. You'd see similar stuff at any elite or expensive private-school or kids of the same demographics at universities around the kids of the same ages without the 80k pocketed in a signing bonus.
 
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MatthewsMoustache

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A bunch of kids who make it to the OHL already come from pretty wealthy backgrounds. Most of these kids' parents prior to the OHL had parents spending over 10k a year on their hockey careers, and most of these kids can do-no-wrong and are spoiled due to it. Some of the quotes for the amount of money spent I've heard for players like McDavid or Marner's development is absurd. You'd see similar stuff at any elite or expensive private-school or kids of the same demographics at universities around the kids of the same ages without the 80k pocketed in a signing bonus.

fair enough
 

NOA

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A bunch of kids who make it to the OHL already come from pretty wealthy backgrounds. Most of these kids' parents prior to the OHL had parents spending over 10k a year on their hockey careers, and most of these kids can do-no-wrong and are spoiled due to it. Some of the quotes for the amount of money spent I've heard for players like McDavid or Marner's development is absurd. You'd see similar stuff at any elite or expensive private-school or kids of the same demographics at universities around the kids of the same ages without the 80k pocketed in a signing bonus.
That I would agree with is the singular issue. These “kids” have enormous amount of resources, money, and a long leash. If the OHL teams and league wanted to crack down on it they probably could. But when the star players run the show, the OHL turns a blind eye

It’s sad really because it’s the old debate of “they are just kids”

Really? Just kids? Because most 16,17,18 and even 19 year olds I know or knew aren’t doing anything more than a little drinking and smoking. Not cocaine use and certainly not regular use.

What is the worst of this story is being pressured into it. It’s one thing if an older player wants to engage but don’t create a toxic culture by bringing the young players forcibly into it.. that’s pathetic

The really question I have always wondered is.. how many good to potentially great teams lost their way due to these “distractions”?? Could totally derail the talent/potential on a team because these young adults are not equipped for that level of “partying”
 

93LEAFS

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That I would agree with is the singular issue. These “kids” have enormous amount of resources, money, and a long leash. If the OHL teams and league wanted to crack down on it they probably could. But when the star players run the show, the OHL turns a blind eye

It’s sad really because it’s the old debate of “they are just kids”

Really? Just kids? Because most 16,17,18 and even 19 year olds I know or knew aren’t doing anything more than a little drinking and smoking. Not cocaine use and certainly not regular use.

What is the worst of this story is being pressured into it. It’s one thing if an older player wants to engage but don’t create a toxic culture by bringing the young players forcibly into it.. that’s pathetic
Forcing someone to do drugs as a hazing activity crosses the lines of decency in so many ways.

Having gone to Toronto private schools growing up and going to UWO, I just don't think the 80k is really the issue. Now, I finished high-school 13 years ago, so maybe things have changed. But, I wouldn't say my experiences at Toronto private schools or UWO were uncommon talking to peers who went to schools like McGill, Queens, Laurier, Dalhousie, etc. Now, I sure as hell don't remember anyone being hazed into doing drugs, which is truly toxic and reprehensible behavior, although frat culture isn't that common in Canada.
 
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MatthewsMoustache

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I can only imagine it’s not long before the cats out of the bag on who the older player was. someone’s gotta be held accountable. the list is narrowed down to Bunnaman, Mascherin, Hall(?) and Bracco. 3 of these guys are not going to want their names dragged in the mud for something they didn’t do
 
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EvenSteven

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I can only imagine it’s not long before the cats out of the bag on who the older player was. someone’s gotta be held accountable. the list is narrowed down to Bunnaman, Mascherin, Hall(?) and Bracco. 3 of these guys are not going to want their names dragged in the mud for something they didn’t do

Guest talked of an older vet. That’s Bracco or Opilka. The other three drafted vets were 18. Does that exclude the 18 year olds?

Now that this has gone national, (Westhead / TSN), the league has to investigate.
 

MatthewsMoustache

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Guest talked of an older vet. That’s Bracco or Opilka. The other three drafted vets were 18. Does that exclude the 18 year olds?

Now that this has gone national, (Westhead / TSN), the league has to investigate.

he also said to Westhead that he doesn’t want to hurt their career. Opilka doesn’t play anymore.

all the available evidence reeks of Jeremy Bracco
 
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rangersblues

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I can only imagine it’s not long before the cats out of the bag on who the older player was. someone’s gotta be held accountable. the list is narrowed down to Bunnaman, Mascherin, Hall(?) and Bracco. 3 of these guys are not going to want their names dragged in the mud for something they didn’t do
More than the player needs to be held accountable. Branch stated about a year ago hazing was behind us. Is he going to just brush this under the carpet and continue to say it's in the past. Eric Guest didn't seem very comfortable coming forward with this until it was clear he was out of hockey. To me that says the culture that allowed this to happen still exists today.
 
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EvenSteven

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More than the player needs to be held accountable. Branch stated about a year ago hazing was behind us. Is he going to just brush this under the carpet and continue to say it's in the past. Eric Guest didn't seem very comfortable coming forward with this until it was clear he was out of hockey. To me that says the culture that allowed this to happen still exists today.

Kinda tough to penalize the team. If this happened at a private party, how can team officials be held accountable?

If Guest or anyone else didn’t make team officials aware, how could they have acted.

This isn’t Downie/Aliu (team practice/team bus) or Carcillo (team dressing room).
 

MatthewsMoustache

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More than the player needs to be held accountable. Branch stated about a year ago hazing was behind us. Is he going to just brush this under the carpet and continue to say it's in the past. Eric Guest didn't seem very comfortable coming forward with this until it was clear he was out of hockey. To me that says the culture that allowed this to happen still exists today.

absolutely. considering some guys from the 2016-17 team we’re still on this years team, there’s plenty of reason to believe this still goes on. league-wide, not just in Kitchener.

I just don’t know how you root this stuff out. the team can’t police everything that happens in real time. there’s gonna be parties, drinking, etc. but how do you get the idea out of players heads that just because they are older, drafted, signed, that they are not above anyone else and that this level of hazing is thousands of steps over the line
 

rangersblues

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Kinda tough to penalize the team. If this happened at a private party, how can team officials be held accountable?

If Guest or anyone else didn’t make team officials aware, how could they have acted.

This isn’t Downie/Aliu (team practice/team bus) or Carcillo (team dressing room).
Branch made it clear that hazing doesn't exist anymore AND that teams had an environment conducive that players would feel comfortable reporting things like this. Obviously that's not the case.

Also the party had to be somewhere. It's not like these kids live on their own.
 
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Medway Bear

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Also the party had to be somewhere. It's not like these kids live on their own.

I would like to know where the party was held. If a billet house, is that family still a billet? Was anyone from team management present? There are still people from the hockey management side with the team including the then General Manager.

I always struggle with making the rookies pick up pucks and load the bus. It is borderline hazing, but if rookies feel they can't stand up to vets, this can't be helping. Is it time for the practice to end?
 

robertmac43

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Really feel for Guest, tough thing to be thrown into at such a young age.

Unfortunately I cannot say I'm too surprised by a story like this coming out. My guess is there are many more similar cases that have happened. Who know maybe Guest is a catalyst for getting more people to speak out.

Hazing is unfortunate aspect of hockey culture, especially at the junior level. Hopefully the sport can shake it sooner than later as it seems to be a constant.
 

Millpond

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Dec 5, 2015
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that’s what I’m most concerned about. that was just 1 of the stories Eric has from playing in the OHL as a 16 year old. I’m terrified of what else flies under the radar.

the team should probably address this/investigate it
In all fairness, the CHL should step in quickly. Its a leaguewide issue, not confined to the time Eric Guest played for the Rangers
 

Millpond

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Dec 5, 2015
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I would like to know where the party was held. If a billet house, is that family still a billet? Was anyone from team management present? There are still people from the hockey management side with the team including the then General Manager.

I always struggle with making the rookies pick up pucks and load the bus. It is borderline hazing, but if rookies feel they can't stand up to vets, this can't be helping. Is it time for the practice to end?
As of last season, rookies no longer pick up pucks after warmups
 
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Tim Wallach

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As of last season, rookies no longer pick up pucks after warmups

I saw that and it's a start.

I'm glad Guest had the courage to speak out but I hope people understand this is a much deeper issue than simply "the team or the league has to be held accountable." Truth be told, this is all still related to a culture that is encouraged from a young age. It starts when they're 5 or 6. The hockey world is like any team sport world. The skilled kids are worshipped and glorified over all else and character issues are rarely addressed until it's too late. These kids are held on a pedestal by parents, coaches, teammates, etc.

Over time it creates an arrogance and entitlement that turns the majority of them into alpha males who carry themselves with an unhealthy amount of confidence and bravado and even the ones whom that doesn't come naturally to feel they have to play that role to fit in. What's different about junior is that they're now away from home at a time when they still lack the cognitive maturity to make sound decisions consistently. So remove supervision and add in the dynamic of constantly being surrounded by a large pack of alpha males and bad things are bound to happen.

I have seen it my whole life on teams and in school. I hate to say it, but any time you put 20 adolescent males in a room together without supervision, there is ALWAYS going to be an individual or small group who play the dominant and bad things will happen. And when those 20 males are all star hockey players whom fans (and girls) fawn over, it is even more potent.

What I'm driving at is that the fix isn't simple. People unfamiliar with the sport will propose ridiculous solutions like charging team officials or banning junior hockey, or at best not allowing kids to play away from home. In my opinion, the solution starts much earlier and is much harder to implement. Parents, coaches and teammates need to be taught and trained from a young age that what matters is how you treat others and how you want to be seen in 20 years, not how many goals you scored. As long as we have a culture that just fuels egos and entitlement, we're doing a disservice to these kids who are then being forced to pick a lane at an age when they're ill equipped to do so.

The teams and leagues can add resources and training, etc. But as long as this is being fostered throughout their upbringing, it'll always be an uphill battle. I played with loads of very talented kids who came from great homes with great parents, but the one common denominator I saw was these kids were always put on a pedestal and made to feel they were better than others. That's fuel for what comes in ages 16-19.
 
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