Player Discussion Kirill Kaprizov (Part 2)

[MNNumbers]

I don't know how the cap situation is worse; they know what they are doing with the cap.

As for the buyouts, Parise was understandable. Why not play Suter one more year and then buy him out next year? That would have saved Minnesota millions.

I'm not sure I see how it saves Minnesota millions to pay Suter 6M this year on a 7.5M cap hit, when Leipold is paying him 833K and paying Goligoski 5M as it is on the same 7.5M approx cap hit.

Waiting to buy out would not have saved much. The nominal salary remaining would have decreased to 444K on the buyout itself, so that's 400K savings. But the cap hit in 22-23 would still have been 6M and in 23-24 and 24-25 it would have been 7M.

Unless I'm wrong. Not much savings.

 

[Aurinko]

Putting into perspective from Kaprizov's point of view; I think one of the big sticklers here is the terms. Minnesota doesn't want to back down from a 5 year contract, Kaprizov wants something shorter. We can debate the money issue at a later time, but looking at the terms - I can honestly see Kaprizov's point of view on this. Minnesota has done nothing this off-season to improve their team and in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they took a massive step back. They don't have a great history in the playoffs either and they haven't made really any moves to improve the team at the deadline in the past few years. Why would a player want to stick around until their 30s to try and win a Cup?

Can anyone say with honesty that Minnesota is a top 4 team in the NHL? A top team in the NHL? This year? Next year? The next four years?

Losing wears on you. Being just good enough, but not great and losing the first round of the playoffs can really be a grind for players.

KK seems wealthy by any standard and likes it in Russia. Probably will play in the olympics also.

If I was in his shoes, taking the full mental responsibility that comes with gigantic contract would not interest me. He would be the one to point if things don't work out.

Guys that have shorter contracts dont have to carry the pressure. Hall made 8M in Buffalo and didn't perform. Who cared or blamed him? He still managed to sign better team, bruins, for a nice sum of money.

My guess is that KK decides to stay in Russia until he gets the shorter contract he wants.

 

[2Pair]

I'm pretty sure that's his point... You say it's 8 million... But what you should be really saying is it's just an extra 1 million (or whatever his contract is). Like... we've went around and around and around with this several times now... The end of the contracts were not going to go away. Recapture was a real issue... The expansion draft was a real issue... On top of that it could have been personality traits as well.

If you really don't like this situation get mad at ownership and Fletcher. I really can't say it enough times. We know you don't like the fact that the buyouts happened.. but it was always likely to.. they took a shot and they missed. Now we have to pay the piper. It was pretty much unavoidable unless both of them played out their entire contracts... Which just wasn't going to happen

Edit: I just thought of an added point. Would you pay that extra million to keep dumba on the roster? Because that's effectively another thing that it gained out of it. I know I sure would.

Edit 2: an interesting read: How the cap recapture penalty could doom the Wild

A nice excerpt:
The absolute worst case scenario is if both players are traded during the 2020-21 season, and then retire in 2023-24. If they do, the Wild are potentially looking at a cap penalty of... $40,307,692.

Let’s repeat that.
Forty million, three hundred and seven thousand, six hundred ninety-two dollars.
At over half of the current salary cap, you might as well fold the franchise and call it a day.

Your last 2 paragraphs don't really carry the weight that you want them to when you realize that Guerin decided to pay over $50M in cap penalties with the buyouts.

To continue to dismiss Guerin's mistakes as "unavoidable" is just simply ignorant.

 

[north21]

Your last 2 paragraphs don't really carry the weight that you want them to when you realize that Guerin decided to pay over $50M in cap penalties with the buyouts.

To continue to dismiss Guerin's mistakes as "unavoidable" is just simply ignorant.

Are they penalties when we would have had to have them on the cap without the buyouts? Plus it sounds like we got rid of some long overdue locker room issues and didn't have to protect two 37 year olds in expansion. Kind of a draw followed by several positives, including getting younger.

 

[Ban Hammered]

Your last 2 paragraphs don't really carry the weight that you want them to when you realize that Guerin decided to pay over $50M in cap penalties with the buyouts.

To continue to dismiss Guerin's mistakes as "unavoidable" is just simply ignorant.

As much as you may hate it...the buyouts were not mistakes.

 

[MuckOG]

5 years X $9 million for a guy who's only played 55 games. Kaprizov is just being a dick about it at this point.

 

[fredrikstad]

KK seems wealthy by any standard and likes it in Russia. Probably will play in the olympics also.

If I was in his shoes, taking the full mental responsibility that comes with gigantic contract would not interest me. He would be the one to point if things don't work out.

Guys that have shorter contracts dont have to carry the pressure. Hall made 8M in Buffalo and didn't perform. Who cared or blamed him? He still managed to sign better team, bruins, for a nice sum of money.

My guess is that KK decides to stay in Russia until he gets the shorter contract he wants.

I read somewhere on Twitter, that the issue was signing bonus. He was ready to sign a five years deal, but the team want give SB over a said amount.
The tweet is posted in this thread, a few pages back.

 

[MuckOG]

I read somewhere on Twitter, that the issue was signing bonus. He was ready to sign a five years deal, but the team want give SB over a said amount.
The tweet is posted in this thread, a few pages back.

Maybe someone can help me out here. What does it matter to the player if the money comes in the form of a signing bonus or not? Does it have anything to do with player escrows? He's getting the same amount of money no matter what, correct?

 

[thestonedkoala]

Maybe someone can help me out here. What does it matter to the player if the money comes in the form of a signing bonus or not? Does it have anything to do with player escrows? He's getting the same amount of money no matter what, correct?

Signing bonuses have some nifty built in features:

The basics on NHL contract bonuses

First off is the lump sum that they receive in the summer, not included in the buyout (this shouldn't really matter), is lockout proof (so if there is a lockout, they still get paid), and aren't included in a trade.

With that said, I'm wondering if Leipold isn't dragging his feet here on the signing bonus, because apparently Minnesota doesn't like to give out signing bonuses. More so, with the uneven seasons, the signing bonus is guaranteed, but the salary would be prorated.

This adds an interesting wrinkle to the situation.

Edit: The CBA expires in 2025-2026. Wondering if that isn't causing some issues, because if there is a lockout that final year, Kaprizov still gets paid his signing bonus.

 

[keppel146]

They should get this done soon. I hate how this is probably some kind of distraction. Just give him an ultimatum. If he sits, so be it and we can tank for Wright. Maybe that is BG’s plan B.

 

[57special]

They should get this done soon. I hate how this is probably some kind of distraction. Just give him an ultimatum. If he sits, so be it and we can tank for Wright. Maybe that is BG’s plan B.

Now is the time for Guerin to stand fast, or possibly even withdraw his offer. Players ignore this stuff. If anything, the forwards see an open spot as an opportunity to get into the NHL, and for those on the existing roster to move up in the line up.

It's becoming clear that Kaprizov wants to spend as little time as possible here in MN. I think Guerin has to look at trading him for a younger player, prospect, or picks that would sooner fit the timeline we find ourselves in after the Suter buyout. The other option is to make a straight trade for Eichel, but I can't see BUF going for that because there is no way that KK signs there long term.

 

[Aurinko]

I read somewhere on Twitter, that the issue was signing bonus. He was ready to sign a five years deal, but the team want give SB over a said amount.
The tweet is posted in this thread, a few pages back.

Probably only the negotiators know what is the issue.

I'm just thinking that less than a year is not enough time to get rooted to a new country. Being older and well rooted in Russia, I would say that staying there is something he would be familiar with. To me it looked like KK did enjoy his time with the Wild and the team did like him, but it does remind me a certain case where GM just didn't know how to handle a star player: "I forgot everything that happened last season, like a terrible dream." -Vadim Shipachyov. Being a KHL points leader and VGK short of a 1C/2C, it does make you think whether they could have handled things better.

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Maybe someone can help me out here. What does it matter to the player if the money comes in the form of a signing bonus or not? Does it have anything to do with player escrows? He's getting the same amount of money no matter what, correct?

Signing bonuses are paid in huge lump sums on a specific date and are lockout proof (paid on the agreed day whether there is a season or not so no lost wages). And if properly invested a player can take big chunks of money up front early in a contract, invest it, and end up making even more money than they would have made just on salary alone. I’d bet anything that the big guns on the Leafs are taking those massive bonuses in their deals and putting it to work.

If properly managed money now is always better than money later.

 

[fredrikstad]

Maybe someone can help me out here. What does it matter to the player if the money comes in the form of a signing bonus or not? Does it have anything to do with player escrows? He's getting the same amount of money no matter what, correct?

I see you got some good answers already. Much better than if I should try to explain.

 

[BigT2002]

At this point, why not trade him for the 1C that everyone has clearly been hammering over? KK is a gifted player, no doubt, but even from both sides (Business and Team) of this, is it really worth all the headaches?

 

[AKL]

At this point, why not trade him for the 1C that everyone has clearly been hammering over? KK is a gifted player, no doubt, but even from both sides (Business and Team) of this, is it really worth all the headaches?

I don't think you can get an actual 1C for him right now. The right team might give up a solid C prospect and a pick though.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Unless Vancouver would move their headache for ours but it would still cost the Wild a pick and/or prospect.

 

[Aurinko]

At this point, why not trade him for the 1C that everyone has clearly been hammering over? KK is a gifted player, no doubt, but even from both sides (Business and Team) of this, is it really worth all the headaches?

Like I said earlier, I don't think he will suddenly give other teams discounts or long term... Unless I'm really missing something important here, he isn't worth much anything unsigned atm.

 

[EazyE1]

he prob wants to go to a cup winning team that also has a russian playing superstar. Pitt, Tampa, Wash.. cant blame him really.. hes not coming to minnesota. forget it.

 

[57special]

he prob wants to go to a cup winning team that also has a russian playing superstar. Pitt, Tampa, Wash.. cant blame him really.. hes not coming to minnesota. forget it.

Pitt and WAS are teams whose best years are behind them. TBL doesn't have the cap space to take on Kaprizov. I don't see why Kaprizov would want to go to one of those teams and play second Banana to Ovi/ Malkin/ Kucherov, among others.

 

[heisenbergsitti]

he prob wants to go to a cup winning team that also has a russian playing superstar. Pitt, Tampa, Wash.. cant blame him really.. hes not coming to minnesota. forget it.

He has zero leverage. None. Minnesota isn't trading him to cup contender's who can't give Minnesota high 1st, or top good prospects

 

[EazyE1]

He has zero leverage. None. Minnesota isn't trading him to cup contender's who can't give Minnesota high 1st, or top good prospects

Kinda hard to trade a player that isnt yours I think..

 

[Digitalbooya]

Kinda hard to trade a player that isnt yours I think..

Except he is... Minnesota owns his rights, he has zero arbitration rights, and no team can offersheet him.

 

[Jesus comma Brodin]

Kinda hard to trade a player that isnt yours I think..

No other NHL team can go near him until 2024, but you do you.

 

[Spurgeon]

Sign him for 3 years, retain on his salary (if necessary) & flip him to the contender that offers the best combination of C/W prospects + picks. This team should be building for a cup window 5 seasons from now. Kap is clearly not going to be around for that.

Allocating the $9M in savings towards Fiala + 2 high-end ELCs seems like a much more preferable situation for this dead cap era we’re entering.