Player Discussion Kirill Kaprizov (Part 2)

[thestonedkoala]

He can sign a f*cking 7 year contract and if he wants year 4 to get the hell out of dodge, and demand a trade, he can.

What I am saying is that he has no reason to not sign a 5 year contract.

We all saw how trade demands have worked.

Also, it's official. Kaprizov is going to miss training camp and have a pretty rough year.

 

[Anarchism]

So time to make a move....and get some assets.
To the Rangers for Kakko and Othmann?

 

[Digitalbooya]

The Wild offered the wrong LW a long term contract this offseason. Ugh.

 

[north21]

What part about that scenario isn't plausible?

It is plausible but does not mean it was ever an option, other teams might have other plans. We had to work with what was available to us at the time of expansion right?

 

[AKL]

So time to make a move....and get some assets.
To the Rangers for Kakko and Othmann?

Don't think NY does that. They're already going to have a rough time navigating the cap in the future, they need those guys on cheap contracts more than they need a guy demanding 10M now.

 

[Wild11MN]

I don't think this guy is going to be here for the entirety of his next contract. Add me to the 'trade him' list in the next couple of years.

 

[57special]

So time to make a move....and get some assets.
To the Rangers for Kakko and Othmann?

I would think about that, as I like Othmann, but would definitely prefer Lafreniere from the NYR.

 

[north21]

Putting into perspective from Kaprizov's point of view; I think one of the big sticklers here is the terms. Minnesota doesn't want to back down from a 5 year contract, Kaprizov wants something shorter. We can debate the money issue at a later time, but looking at the terms - I can honestly see Kaprizov's point of view on this. Minnesota has done nothing this off-season to improve their team and in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they took a massive step back. They don't have a great history in the playoffs either and they haven't made really any moves to improve the team at the deadline in the past few years. Why would a player want to stick around until their 30s to try and win a Cup?

Can anyone say with honesty that Minnesota is a top 4 team in the NHL? A top team in the NHL? This year? Next year? The next four years?

Losing wears on you. Being just good enough, but not great and losing the first round of the playoffs can really be a grind for players.

This is fair argument but at the same time should every player in the league be gifted a spot on a cup contender? Just because we don't have a great center now doesn't mean we can't get one in the future. This cap stuff is overblown because if we didn't buy them out there cap hits would still be here for another 5 seasons right?

 

[AKL]

I would think about that, as I like Othmann, but would definitely prefer Lafreniere from the NYR.

Yeah and I would prefer that Margot Robbie DM me on Instagram asking me on a date but why would she do that?

 

[57special]

If Guerin signed him to a 4 x 7M they could save some money, and Kaprizov would be easier to trade, should it end up that way. If it is true that KK turned down 5 x 9M, then he is going by a different playbook. The "Russian factor" is certainly rearing it's ugly head.

 

[thestonedkoala]

So time to make a move....and get some assets.
To the Rangers for Kakko and Othmann?

Rangers really don't have anything interesting.

This is fair argument but at the same time should every player in the league be gifted a spot on a cup contender?

There is a difference between a Cup Contender and a Playoff Bubble Team. Players tend to gravitate to teams that can compete or are in the process of building for competition.

This cap stuff is overblown because if we didn't buy them out there cap hits would still be here for another 5 seasons right?

Suter + Goligoski = paying Goligoski now 8 million roughly to play for us.

 

[BlackBusa24]

Suter + Goligoski = paying Goligoski now 8 million roughly to play for us.

I'm pretty sure that's his point... You say it's 8 million... But what you should be really saying is it's just an extra 1 million (or whatever his contract is). Like... we've went around and around and around with this several times now... The end of the contracts were not going to go away. Recapture was a real issue... The expansion draft was a real issue... On top of that it could have been personality traits as well.

If you really don't like this situation get mad at ownership and Fletcher. I really can't say it enough times. We know you don't like the fact that the buyouts happened.. but it was always likely to.. they took a shot and they missed. Now we have to pay the piper. It was pretty much unavoidable unless both of them played out their entire contracts... Which just wasn't going to happen

Edit: I just thought of an added point. Would you pay that extra million to keep dumba on the roster? Because that's effectively another thing that it gained out of it. I know I sure would.

Edit 2: an interesting read: How the cap recapture penalty could doom the Wild

A nice excerpt:
The absolute worst case scenario is if both players are traded during the 2020-21 season, and then retire in 2023-24. If they do, the Wild are potentially looking at a cap penalty of... $40,307,692.

Let’s repeat that.
Forty million, three hundred and seven thousand, six hundred ninety-two dollars.
At over half of the current salary cap, you might as well fold the franchise and call it a day.

 

[north21]

There is a difference between a Cup Contender and a Playoff Bubble Team. Players tend to gravitate to teams that can compete or are in the process of building for competition.

Yes UFA, how do RFA agents manage that? Especially after one season? On top of that we actually made the playoffs last year, his only real gripe is our center situation, which we all agree is a problem but it shoudln't be able to let rookies dictate what teams they play for the next season right?

See above on the buyouts, I can't help the Goligoski stuff but completely understand the buyouts and why they were needed at the time. One thing for sure, a 37 year old parise/suter combo wants going to get us closer to a cup going forward. It was the right time to take care of that situation and I am kind of glad we had the forsight to take care of it early.

 

[nickschultzfan]

So time to make a move....and get some assets.
To the Rangers for Kakko and Othmann?

I would ask Rangers for Laf and Kreider for Kap and Greenway.

 

[P10p]

Might they just sign a 1-2 year deal to "kick the can down the road?"

 

[Bazeek]

Might they just sign a 1-2 year deal to "kick the can down the road?"

Kicking the can down the road just means they have to do this whole thing again with less leverage and a worse cap situation. It's not impossible, but if it happens I wouldn't expect Kaprizov to be on this team by the 2022 draft.

 

[Digitalbooya]

You know what would be absolutely hilarious? If the Wild give him a 1-2 year deal and he isn't a point per game player for those two years and really cements himself as a $7.5M AAV player. Will potentially cost him $12M+ over 8 years. Maybe the Wild should offer him a short contract to see how he does against the rest of the NHL.

 

[P10p]

Kicking the can down the road just means they have to do this whole thing again with less leverage and a worse cap situation. It's not impossible, but if it happens I wouldn't expect Kaprizov to be on this team by the 2022 draft.

A lot of this depends on how he performs over those years but I do get what you're saying!

 

[ThatGuy22]

I'm pretty sure that's his point... You say it's 8 million... But what you should be really saying is it's just an extra 1 million (or whatever his contract is). Like... we've went around and around and around with this several times now... The end of the contracts were not going to go away. Recapture was a real issue... The expansion draft was a real issue... On top of that it could have been personality traits as well.

If you really don't like this situation get mad at ownership and Fletcher. I really can't say it enough times. We know you don't like the fact that the buyouts happened.. but it was always likely to.. they took a shot and they missed. Now we have to pay the piper. It was pretty much unavoidable unless both of them played out their entire contracts... Which just wasn't going to happen

Edit: I just thought of an added point. Would you pay that extra million to keep dumba on the roster? Because that's effectively another thing that it gained out of it. I know I sure would.

Edit 2: an interesting read: How the cap recapture penalty could doom the Wild

A nice excerpt:
The absolute worst case scenario is if both players are traded during the 2020-21 season, and then retire in 2023-24. If they do, the Wild are potentially looking at a cap penalty of... $40,307,692.

Let’s repeat that.
Forty million, three hundred and seven thousand, six hundred ninety-two dollars.
At over half of the current salary cap, you might as well fold the franchise and call it a day.

Nope. Most their cap penalty could be is their AAV. 15 million until it's paid off.

 

[AKL]

You know what would be absolutely hilarious? If the Wild give him a 1-2 year deal and he isn't a point per game player for those two years and really cements himself as a $7.5M AAV player. Will potentially cost him $12M+ over 8 years. Maybe the Wild should offer him a short contract to see how he does against the rest of the NHL.

I don't know how much this would really help us though. He'd still be doing everything in his power to get to UFA ASAP. Maybe we'd "dodge a bullet", but it's not like the bullet would have killed us anyway.

 

[BlackBusa24]

Nope. Most their cap penalty could be is their AAV. 15 million until it's paid off.

So you're saying the article is wrong? The articles from 2019 so stuff probably could have changed. The net effect of my argument remains the same as we weren't going to get away from a negative impact one way or another.

And of course 15 million a year is more then our two bad years under the buyouts anyways

 

[ThatGuy22]

So you're saying the article is wrong? The articles from 2019 so stuff probably could have changed. The net effect of my argument remains the same as we weren't going to get away from a negative impact one way or another.

The return to play MOU before the 2020 expanded playoffs amended it to cap the per season overage charge to their AAV.

This was done due to Weber bring traded and pointing it the flaw in the original clause. Nashville was set to be in the hook for some redicuolous charges if he retired because they traded him before they recouped any of his benefit.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Kicking the can down the road just means they have to do this whole thing again with less leverage and a worse cap situation. It's not impossible, but if it happens I wouldn't expect Kaprizov to be on this team by the 2022 draft.

I don't know how the cap situation is worse; they know what they are doing with the cap.

As for the buyouts, Parise was understandable. Why not play Suter one more year and then buy him out next year? That would have saved Minnesota millions.

 

[Bazeek]

I don't know how the cap situation is worse; they know what they are doing with the cap.

As for the buyouts, Parise was understandable. Why not play Suter one more year and then buy him out next year? That would have saved Minnesota millions.

I guess I should rephrase. The Wild's cap outlook is unlikely to change, but the AAV on the deal is likely to only go up over time. If we're talking $9m per year now it'll be more than that in 1 or 2 years, and the team sure isn't getting any more space to accommodate the increase.

 

[BlackBusa24]

I don't know how the cap situation is worse; they know what they are doing with the cap.

As for the buyouts, Parise was understandable. Why not play Suter one more year and then buy him out next year? That would have saved Minnesota millions.

Taking into assumption the caveat of the numbers that we were discussing previously were correct... Then maybe it was for cap savings for this year in order to sign Fiala and KK? As well of course as being able to keep dumba around.

Complicated.