KHL Expansion Part VIII

[TheWhiskeyThief]

At the end, it doesn't matter, what want to say @pukovnik, @vorky, @Faterson, @TheWhiskeyThief, @Jussi, @alko and believe or not even @Barclay Donaldson. It is all about the owners, what they want.

Im throwing my 5 € into jackpot, that Slovan will play in KHL in the next 5 years.

Plenty of interesting ways to set money on fire, just ask the KLF.
Why the KLF Burnt One Million Pounds in 1994?

 

[vorky]

I will leave here words by journalist Prokop from Denník Šport. He says that Hrubý had the interest to buy Slovan around 2014-2015 when Slovan was playing the KHL. He does not specify if Hrubý wanted to buy 100% shares at the time & staying in the KHL or not. Prokop can imagine Slovan´s comeback to the KHL & saying something about a scenario when Hrubý would buy even the venue. Btw, the same scenario was circulated in media at the time when Slovan left the league. That investor had the interest to buy both, the club & arena.

Finally, he says that Slovan´s payroll budget should be around one million euro next season.

 

[Faterson]

It would be better if Hrubý built a new hockey arena (like the one in St. Petersburg, Chicago or Montreal, you know: for a crowd of 20+k) instead of buying the old barn.

The old barn is OK for Slovan "B", a farm team, to play in the Slovak league, and it's perhaps OK for Bratislava Capitals to play in EBEL, but it's not really good enough for the KHL.

If Slovakia wants to host another World Championship (and it does), it definitely needs a new arena anyway. Fasel said it's a must – no compromises from IIHF. I know Hockey Slovakia said they contemplated building the new arena in Central Slovakia, but that seems like a pipe-dream (bombastic & Richard Lintner-like, and he's gone).

 

[Jussi]

It would be better if Hrubý built a new hockey arena (like the one in St. Petersburg, Chicago or Montreal, you know: for a crowd of 20+k) instead of buying the old barn.

The old barn is OK for Slovan "B", a farm team, to play in the Slovak league, and it's perhaps OK for Bratislava Capitals to play in EBEL, but it's not really good enough for the KHL.

If Slovakia wants to host another World Championship (and it does), it definitely needs a new arena anyway. Fasel said it's a must – no compromises from IIHF. I know Hockey Slovakia said they contemplated building the new arena in Central Slovakia, but that seems like a pipe-dream (bombastic & Richard Lintner-like, and he's gone).

Fasel's gone next year. Was supposed be out already but Coronavirus postponed it.

 

[vorky]

It would be better if Hrubý built a new hockey arena (like the one in St. Petersburg, Chicago or Montreal, you know: for a crowd of 20+k) instead of buying the old barn.

The old barn is OK for Slovan "B", a farm team, to play in the Slovak league, and it's perhaps OK for Bratislava Capitals to play in EBEL, but it's not really good enough for the KHL.

If Slovakia wants to host another World Championship (and it does), it definitely needs a new arena anyway. Fasel said it's a must – no compromises from IIHF. I know Hockey Slovakia said they contemplated building the new arena in Central Slovakia, but that seems like a pipe-dream (bombastic & Richard Lintner-like, and he's gone).

Regarding the EBEL & the Nepela Stadium. It is just a couple of days when I read the interview by Christian Feichtinger from EBEL or whatever name they are using. He said that the Nepela Stadium is the only venue with 10,000 seats in the league, so it is the best one. So, yeah, it is enough for Capitals.

 

[mkev400]

It would be better if Hrubý built a new hockey arena (like the one in St. Petersburg, Chicago or Montreal, you know: for a crowd of 20+k) instead of buying the old barn.

The old barn is OK for Slovan "B", a farm team, to play in the Slovak league, and it's perhaps OK for Bratislava Capitals to play in EBEL, but it's not really good enough for the KHL.

If Slovakia wants to host another World Championship (and it does), it definitely needs a new arena anyway. Fasel said it's a must – no compromises from IIHF. I know Hockey Slovakia said they contemplated building the new arena in Central Slovakia, but that seems like a pipe-dream (bombastic & Richard Lintner-like, and he's gone).

I fail to see the need for a new arena, considering the fact that the team was not exactly fully occupied in 5 of its 7 seasons in the KHL. I would very much count the first two seasons as novelty factor attendances. After that the attendances petered out at a (very) good 8,000 over 4 years, but that in no shape or form warrants a new arena with space for 20,000 people, that you dream of. You can refer back to the incompetent management if you want, but the 7 seasons show a trend that the level of enthusiasm for a bad to mediocre team, getting steamrolled by SKA and CSKA anually, isnt there in Bratislava, at least not enough to warrant a new building to replace a recently renovated one.
Also, considering the arena was largely rebuilt less than a decade ago, I doubt the city of Bratislava is too keen on sinking 100s of millions into a new arena, and even if the new owner is flush, I doubt he'd want to invest 30% of his alleged net worth into a building.
As Jussi said, Fasel is only a placeholder at this stage and a new era at the IIHF is about to begin. There are surely more level heads in the running that don't share Fasels ideas for the future of the IIHF tournaments, especially in the aftermath of the coming recession.

Regarding the EBEL & the Nepela Stadium. It is just a couple of days when I read the interview by Christian Feichtinger from EBEL or whatever name they are using. He said that the Nepela Stadium is the only venue with 10,000 seats in the league, so it is the best one. So, yeah, it is enough for Capitals.

Last I checked, Ondrej Nepela Arena would also be in the upper half of Arenas by capacity for the KHL. To say thats enough for the Capitals, while implying it isnt for Slovan, is a bit shortsighted.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

It would be better if Hrubý built a new hockey arena (like the one in St. Petersburg, Chicago or Montreal, you know: for a crowd of 20+k) instead of buying the old barn.

Which one of these is not like the others?

Those cities have 4-12 times the metro population of. Bratislava, the North American teams are in well to do cities while St. Petersburg has explicit state sponsorship. The only comparable N. American city that has a top level team is Winnipeg and their building is a shade over 15k, which would be bigger crowds than what the football team does.
In the early KHL days they had barely no financial margins; when it went bad it went really bad.

 

[Faterson]

Nonsense. Bratislava/Slovakia needs a new hockey arena and everyone knows it. It was supposed to be built 10 years ago, and it will be built – the only question is where in Slovakia.

And, of course, a hockey country like Slovakia, a country of 5 million people, deserves to have at least one top-notch hockey arena, and top-notch to me means 20+k people. Don't mention Winnipeg – that's ridiculous. This is about a country of 5 million people.

I realize 20+k capacity is far-fetched and is very unlikely to happen, it's likely to be around 15+k, I'm only saying I wish there was a 20+k arena, as there would be enough interest to fill it on many occasions, and it would be multi-purpose like the old barn is, naturally, serving not just hockey.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Nonsense. Bratislava/Slovakia needs a new hockey arena and everyone knows it. It was supposed to be built 10 years ago, and it will be built – the only question is where in Slovakia.

And, of course, a hockey country like Slovakia, a country of 5 million people, deserves to have at least one top-notch hockey arena, and top-notch to me means 20+k people. Don't mention Winnipeg – that's ridiculous. This is about a country of 5 million people.

I realize 20+k capacity is far-fetched and is very unlikely to happen, it's likely to be around 15+k, I'm only saying I wish there was a 20+k arena, as there would be enough interest to fill it on many occasions, and it would be multi-purpose like the old barn is, naturally, serving not just hockey.

The Nile is apparently a river that runs through Bratislava.

 

[vorky]

Last I checked, Ondrej Nepela Arena would also be in the upper half of Arenas by capacity for the KHL. To say thats enough for the Capitals, while implying it isnt for Slovan, is a bit shortsighted.

Yeah, right with capacity & KHL. I just do not understand why you are replying to me. I have never said the current Nepela Stadium would not be enough for KHL Slovan. It is your pure malevolent misinterpretation of my words.

Generally, I fully support @Faterson words, the European hockey clubs need venues with over 15k seats. As much as possible.

 

[mkev400]

I just do not understand why you are replying to me.

i was merging two points together, and misread your point of the arena being good enough for EBEL as implying the arena being only good enough for an inferior league.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Alexei Morozov: "the New KHL clubs? There is specific interest from Hungary, Korea and the Emirates" - Best Sport News

Alexei Morozov interview mention potential expansion into interested markets like Hungary, Korea, and the Emirates.

The KHL monitoring of the hockey situation in Emirates is well-established. Coca-Cola Arena is a potential home, although there are issues with funding and general interest.

Hungary would be interesting. László Papp Budapest Sports Arena seats nearly 10.000 for hockey and is home to the national team, but is unused by any Erste Liga teams.

Korea would be on an island for travel and certainly against the wind. With teams like Admiral, Amur, and KRS already on <<thin ice>> they would need much more stability before thinking about going there.

 

[vorky]

i was merging two points together, and misread your point of the arena being good enough for EBEL as implying the arena being only good enough for an inferior league.

Fine.

 

[alko]

Korea would be on an island for travel and certainly against the wind. With teams like Admiral, Amur, and KRS already on <<thin ice>> they would need much more stability before thinking about going there.

Another team in Japan and you have a nice Far Far East Division.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Another team in Japan and you have a nice Far Far East Division.

5 teams would not make a nice Far Far East Division. An odd number of teams and not nearly enough of them. You would need at least 7-8 or else it would turn out the same as a 5 team European Division.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

Another team in Japan and you have a nice Far Far East Division.

I remember talk about Sakhalin (Russian territory island above Japan) promoting their hockey team to the KHL which wouldn't be a bad idea to add to the Pacific division.

Doubt it happens, mind.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I remember talk about Sakhalin (Russian territory island above Japan) promoting their hockey team to the KHL which wouldn't be a bad idea to add to the Pacific division.

Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk has 200k population, hard to see how could they fill the KHL arena. It would just be Khanty-Mansiysk kind of thing. Maybe nice for a while but very short-termed.

 

[alko]

5 teams would not make a nice Far Far East Division. An odd number of teams and not nearly enough of them. You would need at least 7-8 or else it would turn out the same as a 5 team European Division.

Ok, then 3. Japan is a very big country with very big cities.

 

[mkev400]

Ok, then 3. Japan is a very big country with very big cities.

3 Japanese teams, 1 Korean, Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk? We already have such a division. Its called Asia League Hockey, and just about showcases the extent of limited hockey prowess in Korea and Japan (and China once upon a time)...

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Ok, then 3. Japan is a very big country with very big cities.

I would truly say how absolutely stupid your comment is, but the mods probably won't let me. I will say it this way...

"I hope you aren't being serious..."

You do realize the current Japan team number Asia League Ice Hockey only is four teams, right? None of them have arenas with more than 3500 capacity. The only suitable KHL arena in the country is Saitama Super Arena, which is the Japanese equivalent of London's O2. A full-time ice hockey tenant there is a non-starter.

As for "very big country with very big cities," China is twelve times larger with significantly larger cities and is incapable of supporting one team. They actually broke KHL records for lowest attendance.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

I would truly say how absolutely stupid your comment is, but the mods probably won't let me. I will say it this way...

"I hope you aren't being serious..."

You do realize the current Asia League Ice Hockey only has four teams, right? None of them have arenas with more than 3500 capacity. The only suitable KHL arena in the country is Saitama Super Arena, which is the Japanese equivalent of London's O2. A full-time ice hockey tenant there is a non-starter.

As for "very big country with very big cities," China is twelve times larger with significantly larger cities and is incapable of supporting one team. They actually broke KHL records for lowest attendance.

Asia League was scheduled to have 8 teams for next season before COVID with Yokohama coming on board and the Cranes folding.

With expansion it could be an interesting 3rd tier league, but would take generations of work to evolve into even a 2nd tier league. TV production costs have dropped and distro is easier than ever. Wide distro? That’s a wildly different story.

 

[hansomreiste]

Why is KHL trying to expand even? Maybe just keep the current teams and try to make the competition as profitable & healthy as possible. Among fans of KHL clubs and casual hockey fans who follow KHL, who is excited about an expansion into UAE or Japan, seriously? We saw how that went with Kunlun. No more than a couple of local players, not an established arena, a circus team occasionally playing home games in Russia as well... What is the point, really? How does it contribute anything meaningful to this league?

 

[Albatros]

Asia League was scheduled to have 8 teams for next season before COVID with Yokohama coming on board and the Cranes folding.

With expansion it could be an interesting 3rd tier league, but would take generations of work to evolve into even a 2nd tier league. TV production costs have dropped and distro is easier than ever. Wide distro? That’s a wildly different story.

I doubt that the league can make it in places like Yokohama, there's just too much competition and they're ever going to be only the Xth biggest show in town when it comes to sports. Small northern towns like until now give it at least some kind of an existence, even if a humble one.

 

[vorky]

Why is KHL trying to expand even? Maybe just keep the current teams and try to make the competition as profitable & healthy as possible. Among fans of KHL clubs and casual hockey fans who follow KHL, who is excited about an expansion into UAE or Japan, seriously? We saw how that went with Kunlun. No more than a couple of local players, not an established arena, a circus team occasionally playing home games in Russia as well... What is the point, really? How does it contribute anything meaningful to this league?

We have been talking about it for years. Guessing it is obvious, but I can sum it up. The following list may not be complete, perhaps I miss some reasons.

1. The KHL does not need & want to expand if there are no benefits for the league. It has been said many times by the leadership.

2. The KHL needs more teams in Asia & Europe to divide the league - less travelling, fewer costs, more profitable & healthy model as you say.

3. The European and Asian markets are interesting for the league´s business.

4. Sport reasons

Just a few notes. I have recently read about the NHL and its history. I counted a few defunct or relocated teams. The KHL has been doing the same. Perhaps we will see more KHL clubs to leave the competition while being replaced by others. It is a process of development. We know that all RSL clubs were accepted by the KHL. A few have already moved while others will follow. Regarding the European clubs, all fulfilled their mission. The KHL needs strong teams, there is no room for weak sides.

 

[KTl]

We have been talking about it for years. Guessing it is obvious, but I can sum it up. The following list may not be complete, perhaps I miss some reasons.

1. The KHL does not need & want to expand if there are no benefits for the league. It has been said many times by the leadership.

2. The KHL needs more teams in Asia & Europe to divide the league - less travelling, fewer costs, more profitable & healthy model as you say.

3. The European and Asian markets are interesting for the league´s business.

4. Sport reasons

Just a few notes. I have recently read about the NHL and its history. I counted a few defunct or relocated teams. The KHL has been doing the same. Perhaps we will see more KHL clubs to leave the competition while being replaced by others. It is a process of development. We know that all RSL clubs were accepted by the KHL. A few have already moved while others will follow. Regarding the European clubs, all fulfilled their mission. The KHL needs strong teams, there is no room for weak sides.

Your first point is: KHL does not need expansion, the second one is KHL needs expansion to divide the league. I am confused.

KHL could already divide the league, or it could add more Russian teams, if it wants to divide the league.

Your last sentence I like: KHL needs strong teams. What I really like is that KHL has defined standards and is willing to throw out teams below these standards. This will strengthen the league in the long run. It will also lead to build the KHL brand internationally. Adding teams from Korea or Hungary with weak performance and/or low attendance will not strengthen the league.

Right now there is however no way to get strong European teams to join KHL, apart from a Jokerit setting. Unless the European leagues collapse, and even in that case an independent European League would be much more probable than joining the KHL. Knowing the NHL history, separate leagues might not be the end of the road though.