Friedman: Kevin Hayes Linked to Boston & Colorado

[Machinehead]

kevin hayes is a good player and is only 26...why would the rangers want to deal him? you need players like that to be competitive even through a rebuild and he's arguably been the rags best player this year. outside a big overpay, the rangers should like to resign the big guy.

The Rangers tried for years to piece it together with good players and a lot of depth, and they almost got there, but it didn't work.

The Rangers want to build their next core out of legit gamebreaking talent, and don't want to commit dollars and years to a good but not elite player like Hayes.

If they weren't already committed to Zibanejad, it would be a different story.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Yeah, go **** yourself

You could give me Hughes right now today for free, and I'd tell you to **** off.

Yikes

 

[Calad]

The Rangers tried for years to piece it together with good players and a lot of depth, and they almost got there, but it didn't work.

The Rangers want to build their next core out of legit gamebreaking talent, and don't want to commit dollars and years to a good but not elite player like Hayes.

If they weren't already committed to Zibanejad, it would be a different story.

You are a fool if you think they are already committed to Zibanejad. They aren't committed to him until July 1st (when his NTC kicks in)

 

[effen]

You are a fool if you think they are already committed to Zibanejad. They aren't committed to him until July 1st (when his NTC kicks in)

Fool! Hear that Machinehead! You are a FOOL!

 

[Machinehead]

Fool! Hear that Machinehead! You are a FOOL!

 

[The Kingslayer]

Why wouldnt the Rangers want to get Hayes signed? Hes not some 34 yr old pending UFA.

 

[tradenashnow]

Agree. Rangers would be extremely dumb not to sign Hayes. Howden, Chytil, Andersson and obviously Kravtsov have proved jack. Nobody knows if they ever will score consistently on the NHL level. Chytil has shown the most potential offensively. You don't throw these kids to the wolves by trading all your vet scorers. The Rangers biggest problem is when Gorton is an imbecile and throws big contracts at players like Skjei when there was no need for it. They simply could have signed him to a 2 year, bridge deal. Then the dope gave out another modified NTC to him. When will that buffoon learn his lesson.

 

[cgf]

Agree. Rangers would be extremely dumb not to sign Hayes. Howden, Chytil, Andersson and obviously Kravtsov have proved jack. Nobody knows if they ever will score consistently on the NHL level. Chytil has shown the most potential offensively. You don't throw these kids to the wolves by trading all your vet scorers. The Rangers biggest problem is when Gorton is an imbecile and throws big contracts at players like Skjei when there was no need for it. They simply could have signed him to a 2 year, bridge deal. Then the dope gave out another modified NTC to him. When will that buffoon learn his lesson.

The flip side of that is that if you never cash in on your prime aged guys during a rebuild the kids can never truly take off...see the importance of the Duchene trade for us; without it MacK never ascends & Compher / Kerfoot / Kamenev don’t get to start showing out.

And that value isn’t cemented...i.e. trading Zibby at 25 with 3 cheap years left he’ll return more than when he’s 27 and need a big fat extension that’ll pay him into his 30s and he has a NTC. Similarly if Hayes will only re-sign if he gets a NTC on a deal that takes him into his 30s, holding onto him until the kids have made him fully superfluous already, could hurt the return.

Plus there’s the timing of when you add whatever futures you’d get for one of your big top 6Cs to your pipeline and whether they’d line up with that new core that you’re still in the early stages of putting together.


As an outsider, it’s a very interesting decision...and I think I personally fall on the side of extending Hayes & selling off Zibby for something like the 6th-10th overall pick + Timmins if the Ottawa pick doesn’t end up top 4 or 5 post-lottery. Between that pick & your own you could leave the top 10 with Byram to join Timmins, Miller, Pionk & Skjei...with another really interesting scoring line Center prospect to slow cook behind Hayes & those 3 kids in case none of them become a higher end 1C, as well. But I like Chytil, K’Andre & Kravtsov a f***ing ton.

 

[Bender]

Why wouldnt the Rangers want to get Hayes signed? Hes not some 34 yr old pending UFA.

For the same reasons the Avs shouldn't give up assets to trade for him. See below:

The Rangers tried for years to piece it together with good players and a lot of depth, and they almost got there, but it didn't work.

The Rangers want to build their next core out of legit gamebreaking talent, and don't want to commit dollars and years to a good but not elite player like Hayes.

If they weren't already committed to Zibanejad, it would be a different story.

If the Avs are going to become major contenders, a guy like Hayes as our #2C isn't going to cut it and paying him close to $6M per year so that he might eventually become our #3C is not a good investment. Would he makes us better than we are now? Sure. But we've got the assets and young players to potentially build a 2nd line that's going to be difficult for other teams to contend if it's done right.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

no thanks on dealing with the Hayes family again...he's all yours Colorado

 

[Shootertooter]

Why wouldnt the Rangers want to get Hayes signed? Hes not some 34 yr old pending UFA.

I think the Rangers understand that signing Hayes long term creates a serious logjam at C. Maybe they do not want to sign him to a multiyear deal because of that, the Seattle Expansion, or perhaps they realize when they feel they might be able to contend again, Hayes might be significantly older and well into his new contract. He is worth more to them as a trade chip.

 

[Shootertooter]

As an outsider, it’s a very interesting decision...and I think I personally fall on the side of extending Hayes & selling off Zibby for something like the 6th-10th overall pick + Timmins if the Ottawa pick doesn’t end up top 4 or 5 post-lottery. Between that pick & your own you could leave the top 10 with Byram to join Timmins, Miller, Pionk & Skjei...with another really interesting scoring line Center prospect to slow cook behind Hayes & those 3 kids in case none of them become a higher end 1C, as well. But I like Chytil, K’Andre & Kravtsov a ****ing ton.

I'm not sure why Timmins is even being mentioned in any trade scenario with NY. The guy has been out for a long time with concussion issues......it looks a lot like NY's own Michael Sauer whose career was cut short......I think the reality is that NY passes on Timmins in any deal.....and especially one for Zibanejad. That is an emphatic no go on Timmins.

If the Ott. pick is lottery protected why would the Rangers move Zib for that pick? Sure a 6 thru 10 is a good pick but it is not a top 5 and likely never turns into what Zib is.

 

[cgf]

I'm not sure why Timmins is even being mentioned in any trade scenario with NY. The guy has been out for a long time with concussion issues......it looks a lot like NY's own Michael Sauer whose career was cut short......I think the reality is that NY passes on Timmins in any deal.....and especially one for Zibanejad. That is an emphatic no go on Timmins.

If the Ott. pick is lottery protected why would the Rangers move Zib for that pick? Sure a 6 thru 10 is a good pick but it is not a top 5 and likely never turns into what Zib is.

That hypothetical trade would be done after the lottery.

When the pick wouldn't need to be protected because it's exact spot would be known, and when Timmins should have returned to action for your scouts to check up on...given that he's already returned to practice in a non-contact jersey...if something goes wrong with his recovery before then then replace him with a different A-prospect from us. I just figured that a RHD with Connor's talent would better fit your young core than another non-bluechip forward prospect.

That timing also works better for the Avs because the team would be ready to start making its serious push; as we'd no longer need to worry about the expansion draft wrt Makar & Kaut. And your kids would have had the rest of this season of sheltering from both Zibby & Hayes, but Zibby's NTC would not have yet kicked in to hamper the return.

 

[NYRKing]

Why wouldnt the Rangers want to get Hayes signed? Hes not some 34 yr old pending UFA.

They apparently tried to in the off season. My guess is they offered a multi year deal under 6M similar to Zibby with team friendly NMC, and Hayes' team said no.

He's playing great hockey and it clearly will leave a gap in C until/if one of our prospects can fill the void. I actually think whoever signs him will feel bad about the term/price (get the Ol' HF FA laugh) but realize he's a very solid all-around player.

 

[Off Sides]

That hypothetical trade would be done after the lottery.

When the pick wouldn't need to be protected because it's exact spot would be known, and when Timmins should have returned to action for your scouts to check up on...given that he's already returned to practice in a non-contact jersey...if something goes wrong with his recovery before then then replace him with a different A-prospect from us. I just figured that a RHD with Connor's talent would better fit your young core than another non-bluechip forward prospect.

That timing also works better for the Avs because the team would be ready to start making its serious push; as we'd no longer need to worry about the expansion draft wrt Makar & Kaut. And your kids would have had the rest of this season of sheltering from both Zibby & Hayes, but Zibby's NTC would not have yet kicked in to hamper the return.

Not sure I understand what you are proposing, you want the Rangers to extend Hayes to some long term UFA contract that may include clauses just so they can hope that the Ottawa pick falls within some range outside of the top picks, but not out of the range of the 2nd tier picks, so they can trade Zbad for it, so they can hope that 2nd tier selection can some day become what Zbad is, and you are willing, should that happen, to add an injured prospect to that to facilitate the deal?

I'd think the alternative for the Rangers would just be to trade Hayes for the more nominal rental returns, with some conditional stuff in there that gets better should the trading team extend Hayes, use some of that return on a 2nd/3rd tier draft selection slot, where Hayes(slot #24) came from in the first place, and hope that turns into Hayes.

 

[b in vancouver]

He's the kind of player Boston needs but I doubt there's a lot of love lost between the Hayes family and the Bruins org. And you'd preferably only give up serious assets this year if you thought you could re-sign him - which would be doubtful in Boston.

He's the right age, position of need, and could be a long term fixture at centre but... ?

Also hoping if the Bruins do make a trade or two it's with some of the prospects currently in the system and not this year's 1st. Not that the 1st is more valuable but rather that they have a lot of prospects around the same age but will have a couple year gap if they trade another 1st.

 

[cgf]

Not sure I understand what you are proposing, you want the Rangers to extend Hayes to some long term UFA contract that may include clauses just so they can hope that the Ottawa pick falls within some range outside of the top picks, but not out of the range of the 2nd tier picks, so they can trade Zbad for it, so they can hope that 2nd tier selection can some day become what Zbad is, and you are willing, should that happen, to add an injured prospect to that to facilitate the deal?

I'd think the alternative for the Rangers would just be to trade Hayes for the more nominal rental returns, with some conditional stuff in there that gets better should the trading team extend Hayes, use some of that return on a 2nd/3rd tier draft selection slot, where Hayes(slot #24) came from in the first place, and hope that turns into Hayes.

Want is a strong word since I’m an avs fan, I was just using us an example for the type of return that Gorton could get for Zibby at the draft if Hayes will extend with you to shepherd in the kids instead.

And for us it’d make sense to offer the Ottawa pick if it doesn’t end up top 4 or 5 + an A-prospect. But I’m sure that in this scenario we would not be the only team that would be interested in Zibby, so such an offer need not come from us...and if the sens pick did land top 4 or 5 I'd certainly off our 1st + A-prospect + your choice of a 2nd A-prospect or our 2020 1st, for Zibby; though I suspect that would be bested by someone else.

Regardless of the exact package the point being that the draft-day Zibby-return would trump the Hayes-rental-return by more than the downgrade from Zibby to Hayes as the vet C who shelters your kids in their early years.

I’m not invested either way, but that’s an interesting scenario for you as a neutral since you’ve already got a handful of kids that i really like and could put together a really fun young core either way. I'm just more so thinking the scenarios through out-loud, since I was really high on Chytil, Miller & Kravtsov as prospects and have to tip my cap to what Gorton has been doing to launch a real rebuild.

...plus there's less to say about the keep-Zibby-sell-Hayes-as-a-rental scenario

 

[strictlyrandy]

16 pages of Rangers fans saying an expiring ufa is worth top prospects and fans of other teams saying no thank you.

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

16 pages of Rangers fans saying an expiring ufa is worth top prospects and fans of other teams saying no thank you.

Fans don't represent GMS. Every Center traded at the deadline in the last 5 deadlines have brought back a 1st and okay prospect/handful of other picks or a decent prospect. Just cause fans view hockey as if they are playing EA doesnt mean teams front offices do. When history and trends show otherwise i will change my opinion.

 

[Off Sides]

Want is a strong word since I’m an avs fan, I was just using us an example for the type of return that Gorton could get for Zibby at the draft if Hayes will extend with you to shepherd in the kids instead.

And for us it’d make sense to offer the Ottawa pick if it doesn’t end up top 4 or 5 + an A-prospect. But I’m sure that in this scenario we would not be the only team that would be interested in Zibby, so such an offer need not come from us.

I’m not invested either way, but that’s an interesting scenario for you as a neutral since you’ve already got a handful of kids that i really like and could put together a really fun young core.

I don't think the Rangers are going to sign any Hayes contract in hopes of what the draft lottery might do or what the value of Zbad may be then.

I think it's a much simpler concept, Hayes is a pending UFA if they are not going to extend him, they are going to sell him. The reasons for extending him would not likely have much to do with Zbad maybe being traded at some later date, it probably would be about them adding to both players in hopes they could form some center foundation that could eventually contend in earnest.

However since the rest of the roster is lacking, mostly in top pair and possibly even middle pair defenders, and they have quite a few what should be bottom pair defenders who are not easily removed from their roster, they are probably going to have to wait on that timeline.

Since waiting on that timeline means also wasting some, if not most of any Hayes timeline in his extension, I'm not sure I see them trying to reconcile that.

Zbad is a bit different since he is already signed, cheaper too, and will likely still be able to be the top line center throughout the transition, he does have a NMC clause kicking in which could at some point hinder them trading him or getting as good of a return yet that is probably a bridge that would not need to be crossed for quite some time unless some offer for him changes the whole scenario, and I do not believe that offer to be a 6-10 pick and a prospect.

I think the Rangers are sort of banking on Zbad to be their lesser version of MacKinnon and will be looking to trying to add a Rantanen and Landeskog to him at some point. Whether those timelines match up or not can be addressed if they do ever find a Rantanen/Landeskog, yet I doubt they see Hayes in the same light as any of those players.

 

[cgf]

I don't think the Rangers are going to sign any Hayes contract in hopes of what the draft lottery might do or what the value of Zbad may be then.

I think it's a much simpler concept, Hayes is a pending UFA if they are not going to extend him, they are going to sell him. The reasons for extending him would not likely have much to do with Zbad maybe being traded at some later date, it probably would be about them adding to both players in hopes they could form some center foundation that could eventually contend in earnest.

However since the rest of the roster is lacking, mostly in top pair and possibly even middle pair defenders, and they have quite a few what should be bottom pair defenders who are not easily removed from their roster, they are probably going to have to wait on that timeline.

Since waiting on that timeline means also wasting some, if not most of any Hayes timeline in his extension, I'm not sure I see them trying to reconcile that.

Zbad is a bit different since he is already signed, cheaper too, and will likely still be able to be the top line center throughout the transition, he does have a NMC clause kicking in which could at some point hinder them trading him or getting as good of a return yet that is probably a bridge that would not need to be crossed for quite some time unless some offer for him changes the whole scenario, and I do not believe that offer to be a 6-10 pick and a prospect.

I think the Rangers are sort of banking on Zbad to be their lesser version of MacKinnon and will be looking to trying to add a Rantanen and Landeskog to him at some point. Whether those timelines match up or not can be addressed if they do ever find a Rantanen/Landeskog, yet I doubt they see Hayes in the same light as any of those players.

See I think that need to wait for some contracts to clear & your kids to develop, functions against keeping both Zibanejad & Hayes in the long run moreso than Hayes' contract demands...although if he just won't re-sign with you for anything reasonable then obviously that changes the equation. Realistically I see 2020-2021 being the earliest your young talent will be ready to start pushing to be a playoff caliber group of skaters and by that point, Zibby would only have 2 seasons left before himself needing to be signed to a new deal that'll take him into his 30s & where you are really only capitalizing on his contract for those two season when you're just starting to make your push.

That's why, from where I sit, I see both of those centers' primary value to your club lying in helping blood the youth in...like Stastny once did for ROR & Dutchy and those two later did for MacKinnon; before needing to be moved out to turn the team over to him once he was ready. Which is why...assuming Hayes will sign a 5 year deal that starts with a 6...I think cashing in on one before next season starts to clear some space for your kids & to load the pipeline with even more extra futures, will be a smarter decision than trying to hold onto both of them and chase a wildcard with center depth & Hank. Like we did after Roy's first season; when a Vezina-caliber season from Varly and being 4 first line centers deep, won us the central back when the division was deep.

Waiting until you have the talent for timelines to become a real problem makes it hard to solve those timeline issues without paying through the nose...which you need to sell pieces for futures to be able to afford....which brings us back to cashing in on one of your scoring line centers. Yes, all prospects don't hit their full potential, but you've at least gotta put together a plan that can work out if you have just an average hit rate...rather than heading into the rebuild with a plan that you know is flawed & will need to be adjusted later. Doing the latter is exactly how you end up having the worst non-expansion season in living memory...which finally forces the organization to admit that it needs to rebuild the rebuild before shit finally starts coming together.

 

[robertmac43]

Seems like a perfect fit for a Boston team.

 

[Off Sides]

See I think that need to wait for some contracts to clear & your kids to develop, functions against keeping both Zibanejad & Hayes in the long run moreso than Hayes' contract demands...although if he just won't re-sign with you for anything reasonable then obviously that changes the equation. Realistically I see 2020-2021 being the earliest your young talent will be ready to start pushing to be a playoff caliber group of skaters and by that point, Zibby would only have 2 seasons left before himself needing to be signed to a new deal that'll take him into his 30s & where you are really only capitalizing on his contract for those two season when you're just starting to make your push.

That's why, from where I sit, I see both of those centers' primary value to your club lying in helping blood the youth in...like Stastny once did for ROR & Dutchy and those two later did for MacKinnon; before needing to be moved out to turn the team over to him once he was ready. Which is why...assuming Hayes will sign a 5 year deal that starts with a 6...I think cashing in on one before next season starts to clear some space for your kids & to load the pipeline with even more extra futures, will be a smarter decision than trying to hold onto both of them and chase a wildcard with center depth & Hank. Like we did after Roy's first season; when a Vezina-caliber season from Varly and being 4 first line centers deep, won us the central back when the division was deep.

Waiting until you have the talent for timelines to become a real problem makes it hard to solve those timeline issues without paying through the nose...which you need to sell pieces for futures to be able to afford....which brings us back to cashing in on one of your scoring line centers. Yes, all prospects don't hit their full potential, but you've at least gotta put together a plan that can work out if you have just an average hit rate...rather than heading into the rebuild with a plan that you know is flawed & will need to be adjusted later. Doing the latter is exactly how you end up having the worst non-expansion season in living memory...which finally forces the organization to admit that it needs to rebuild the rebuild before **** finally starts coming together.

The first paragraph I agree which is why I do not see them extending Hayes. The return for him will be used to supplement the 2021 and beyond timeline. Same with any return for Zucc, McQuiad.

Next year Kreider, Fast, Namestnikov are all pending UFAs.

Year after Shattenkrik, Smith, Staal, Lundqvist all pendingUFAs

Not saying all will be moved or will return high end futures but I think that will be parleyed into the next group that plays with and comes up right after the Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Buchnevich, Kravtsov, Miller, etc group. The 2019-2020 draftees, traded for prospects right behind them, so on so forth.

Zbad could be there through all of that and if he is still good could be extended while those guys are all entering/ still in their primes. Hayes would be more expensive and older through all that which differentiate them.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Fans don't represent GMS. Every Center traded at the deadline in the last 5 deadlines have brought back a 1st and okay prospect/handful of other picks or a decent prospect. Just cause fans view hockey as if they are playing EA doesnt mean teams front offices do. When history and trends show otherwise i will change my opinion.

That's nice. Really glad you used my tongue in cheek post to white knight and go on a trade deadline rant. Way to internet.

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

That's nice. Really glad you used my tongue in cheek post to white knight and go on a trade deadline rant. Way to internet.

holy sensitive snowflake batman.