Friedman: Kevin Hayes Linked to Boston & Colorado

[BKarchitect]

I’m good w a 1st and Bowers for Hayes

I think that’s basically what the deal would look like. It’s basically two mid/late 1st rounders for the rental of Hayes. As Pierce mentions though, the Avs are sliding hard and that first rounder could end up being a fringe lottery pick...or heck it could very well BE a lottery pick at this rate.

The Avs are at an interesting crossroads...the over-reliance on the big line is really hurting them. There are some young pieces that in theory need to step up more (ie Jost, Kerfoot) but the Avs lack that more seasoned presence to help anchor a second scoring unit. Such a presence could definitely help the growth of some of the younger guys as well.

If we don’t do anything or wait till February the season could be lost and then it would be pretty pointless to not be playing well and rent a guy we can look at as an UFA a few months later.

On the flip side, Sakic has become the model of a “patient” GM and frankly it’s not our time in the sun just yet, it’s still a rebuilding team.

Hayes is intriguing because in theory he can help now and moving forward - with a major asterisk risk involved though. But I think the time for the Avs to make a Hayes deal is now, not February. We just need to see how patient Sakic is willing to be and how motivated the Rangers are to move Hayes sooner rather than later. There’s no doubt he fits in the Avs lineup and there’s no doubt the Avs have futures assets to dangle.

 

[NYRKing]

I wish my crystal ball was as clear as yours. At this stage, there is absolutely no way to tell whether the Rangers will be any more able to contend in 4-5 years. Simply having prospects, yes, a new concept for the Rangers, is no guaranty of success. But, having productive, proven players is clearly a path to success.
Unless Hayes brings back a haul, and is willing to sign a reasonable contract, the Rangers should do everything they can to resign him.

They can go 10 years without competing, but if that's the case, Kevin Hayes won't be the difference. He can be the difference for a contending team though with a cup window now...

The point is the chances of the Rangers competing for the cup within 2 years is slim to none with the rebuild. No question, Hayes will have a NMC clause kick-in by this time and this would be really bad if we are not competitive by then. Also, the hope is that in 2-3 years our young players can develop like Hayes and step into this role.

Personally, I would have no problem if we retain him for 5 years at $6M which I believe is a bit below his market, but logically, he should be traded for the best package.

 

[Iracundia]

I think that’s basically what the deal would look like. It’s basically two mid/late 1st rounders for the rental of Hayes. As Pierce mentions though, the Avs are sliding hard and that first rounder could end up being a fringe lottery pick...or heck it could very well BE a lottery pick at this rate.

The Avs are at an interesting crossroads...the over-reliance on the big line is really hurting them. There are some young pieces that in theory need to step up more (ie Jost, Kerfoot) but the Avs lack that more seasoned presence to help anchor a second scoring unit. Such a presence could definitely help the growth of some of the younger guys as well.

If we don’t do anything or wait till February the season could be lost and then it would be pretty pointless to not be playing well and rent a guy we can look at as an UFA a few months later.

On the flip side, Sakic has become the model of a “patient” GM and frankly it’s not our time in the sun just yet, it’s still a rebuilding team.

Hayes is intriguing because in theory he can help now and moving forward - with a major asterisk risk involved though. But I think the time for the Avs to make a Hayes deal is now, not February. We just need to see how patient Sakic is willing to be and how motivated the Rangers are to move Hayes sooner rather than later. There’s no doubt he fits in the Avs lineup and there’s no doubt the Avs have futures assets to dangle.

How motivated is Sakic in trading valuable assets for a UFA 2C when he can wait 4 months and draft a 1C with the Ottawa pick?

Our time in the sun is when Makar, Timmins and the Ottawa pick are playing and contributing on the Avs.

 

[Patagonia]

I think that’s basically what the deal would look like. It’s basically two mid/late 1st rounders for the rental of Hayes. As Pierce mentions though, the Avs are sliding hard and that first rounder could end up being a fringe lottery pick...or heck it could very well BE a lottery pick at this rate.

The Avs are at an interesting crossroads...the over-reliance on the big line is really hurting them. There are some young pieces that in theory need to step up more (ie Jost, Kerfoot) but the Avs lack that more seasoned presence to help anchor a second scoring unit. Such a presence could definitely help the growth of some of the younger guys as well.

If we don’t do anything or wait till February the season could be lost and then it would be pretty pointless to not be playing well and rent a guy we can look at as an UFA a few months later.

On the flip side, Sakic has become the model of a “patient” GM and frankly it’s not our time in the sun just yet, it’s still a rebuilding team.

Hayes is intriguing because in theory he can help now and moving forward - with a major asterisk risk involved though. But I think the time for the Avs to make a Hayes deal is now, not February. We just need to see how patient Sakic is willing to be and how motivated the Rangers are to move Hayes sooner rather than later. There’s no doubt he fits in the Avs lineup and there’s no doubt the Avs have futures assets to dangle.

Hayes has never shown a commitment beyond helping himself. He chose to become a UFA after 4 years of college rather then signing with his drafted team even though they showed a tremendous commitment.

Sakic was unbelievably burned with the Boedker trade with AZ in their push towards the playoffs. Not only did they not make the playoffs, they gave up 2 prospects and still lost the player to UFA. Fortunately, the incompetence of AZ gained little except the one unsigned prospect resulted in a compensatory 2nd, it was packaged for cap dump to reach the floor Datsyuk and higher 1st Chychrun.

I doubt Sakic will repeat another mistake with Hayes and offer essentially 2-1sts for a player that more likely pursuing UFA then resigning. It’ll be in the off-season if there is any interest which only requires $$$.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

Well, Hayes' window is about to open, because NO ONE was trading for him before he could negotiate his extension on Jan 1. I think this next month is going to be hot and heavy on trade rumors, or it could be a deal is in place but no one could talk about or do it until they could confirm/sign Kevin to that extension.

 

[tradenashnow]

Hayes has already stated he wants to sign with NY. So, essentially he isn't a UFA if they want him.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

Also, all of you thinking he goes to free agency, I find that interesting. I am of the belief that he signs within 24 hours after the trade (on a deal that was negotiated with the new team as the trade was figured out).

 

[Profet]

Hayes has never shown a commitment beyond helping himself. He chose to become a UFA after 4 years of college rather then signing with his drafted team even though they showed a tremendous commitment.

Let's stop with the revisionist history and theatrics.

He chose to become a UFA after 4 years of college as was his right under the CBA.

At the time Chicago had like 5 centers who would have prevented him from breaking through and earning NHL money.

There was no "tremendous" commitment.

 

[Speedtrials]

Really hope the Rangers don't move him. I can't remember the last time the Rangers developed a forward who has been playing this well. I don't think a late first and a decent prospect is worth losing him.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

Really hope the Rangers don't move him. I can't remember the last time the Rangers developed a forward who has been playing this well. I don't think a late first and a decent prospect is worth losing him.

Derek Stepan says Hi!

 

[Bender]

Hayes has already stated he wants to sign with NY. So, essentially he isn't a UFA if they want him.

Ah then the Avs should definitely give up a 1st + a good prospect (Bowers - would essentially make that 2 first round picks [practically unheard of]) for a guy who is going to sign with the Rangers on July 1st.

I think a lot of Avs fans are split on how to proceed but for me it's more of a timing thing. People who are suggesting the Avs should use 'the wait and see approach' aren't suggesting they wait for that much longer but they should definitely wait another 6 months before giving up anything significant.

 

[TGWL]

Considering he is 26 as well, it really begs the question as to why priority number one is not re-signing him versus trading him. He has more value going forward for the Rangers on a new deal than as a pending UFA traded at the deadline, particularly given the traditional price UFA rental price.

Rangers are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to signing Hayes. He's going to ask for a long term contract, most likely in the 6'ish+ range. Does Hayes help the Rangers?Yes. But going forward Rangers need good, young players. And right now this is probably the best return we'll get for Hayes. Since we can't agree to terms with Hayes until January, there's also an issue of "What if a deal can't get done before the trade deadline?", we would have to trade him rather than risk losing him for nothing, especially since we're not a playoff team going for it this year.

I honestly don't see Hayes being traded and then signing back with us. Anything is possible, but can't see it happening.

 

[Speedtrials]

Derek Stepan says Hi!

That's fair, but with Hayes a lot of what has impressed me is the way he always has the puck. Especially his game along the boards this year.

 

[Patagonia]

Let's stop with the revisionist history and theatrics.

He chose to become a UFA after 4 years of college as was his right under the CBA.

At the time Chicago had like 5 centers who would have prevented him from breaking through and earning NHL money.

There was no "tremendous" commitment.

To offer a significant package on the hopes the player resigns, they have to use past history and any information that is available. You simply can't ignore his past behaviour that burned Chicago and his comments about liking NY.

Hayes is highly likely to become a UFA and return to the NYR then signing with any other team. AVs offer nothing beyond a lowly pick and pursue in the offseason.

 

[Mac Attack]

Hayes has already stated he wants to sign with NY. So, essentially he isn't a UFA if they want him.

People say a lot of things. If he really wants stay he should already be signed.

 

[TGWL]

How motivated is Sakic in trading valuable assets for a UFA 2C when he can wait 4 months and draft a 1C with the Ottawa pick?

Our time in the sun is when Makar, Timmins and the Ottawa pick are playing and contributing on the Avs.

That would be awesome....if that was 100% true.

There's no guarantee you get the #1 pick. There's no guarantee that the next few centers drafted end up being better than Hayes, at the NHL level.

I get what you're saying, but you're being hopeful, and while the risk might be worth it, it's no guarantee.

 

[tradenashnow]

Hayes is playing at an elite level the past 15 games. No reason to move him. Zucc, Staal and Shattenkirk if they can find a taker with some retained are more likely. Fans always think their team has enough to win the cup which 99% of the time is completely wrong because only one team wins every year. GM"s don't think that way. GM's are always worried about their jobs and rightly so. Gorton will get his price. Rangers should have 3 first rounders again and possibly 3 second rounders as well.

 

[TGWL]

Hayes is playing at an elite level the past 15 games. No reason to move him. Zucc, Staal and Shattenkirk if they can find a taker with some retained are more likely. Fans always think their team has enough to win the cup which 99% of the time is completely wrong because only one team wins every year. GM"s don't think that way. GM's are always worried about their jobs and rightly so. Gorton will get his price. Rangers should have 3 first rounders again and possibly 3 second rounders as well.

Do you have that on copy and paste?

 

[Lion Hound]

It just makes all too much sense for the NY Rangers to move him. They actually issued a letter to address the fanbase that they are committing to a rebuild. However, this whole thing stinks of a pending re-sign, and lets face it. Its the one thing this organization has repeatedly gotten wrong. Overpaying their players...

Girardi
Staal
Shatty
Smith

The flip side of the coin is that the Rangers have a like able player who has been really good for them this year. So the fanbase seems pretty torn up on whether or not to keep him. I would bet the ranch that if the org does indeed keep him around the same fans begging to keep #13 will be pissing and moaning in 3 years that they are shelling out $7mil a season for a player who isn't worth that much money.

Sell high!

 

[smoneil]

Ah then the Avs should definitely give up a 1st + a good prospect (Bowers - would essentially make that 2 first round picks [practically unheard of]) for a guy who is going to sign with the Rangers on July 1st.

I think a lot of Avs fans are split on how to proceed but for me it's more of a timing thing. People who are suggesting the Avs should use 'the wait and see approach' aren't suggesting they wait for that much longer but they should definitely wait another 6 months before giving up anything significant.

What if the pick part of the deal got a little creative? Something like Bowers and a 1st in 2019/20/or 21, but:

-If Hayes re-signs with Colorado, the Rangers pick the year they get the 1st
-If Hayes does not re-sign with Colorado, the Avs pick the year they give the 1st
-If Hayes re-signs with the Rangers, the 1st becomes a 3rd.

Too complicated? Just trying to figure out if it makes more sense for Colorado with a little bit of protection on the flight risk.

 

[Profet]

To offer a significant package on the hopes the player resigns, they have to use past history and any information that is available. You simply can't ignore his past behaviour that burned Chicago and his comments about liking NY.

Hayes is highly likely to become a UFA and return to the NYR then signing with any other team. AVs offer nothing beyond a lowly pick and pursue in the offseason.

Wrong... If NYR wanted him, they would have signed him. The simple fact is that Hayes wants a NTC... The Rangers don't want a second center (they have Zib) with a NTC blocking younger players.

It takes two to tango. I don't believe the Rangers are interested in signing him with a NTC. So yeah... Your assumptions are wrong.

 

[Patagonia]

Wrong... If NYR wanted him, they would have signed him. The simple fact is that Hayes wants a NTC... The Rangers don't want a second center (they have Zib) with a NTC blocking younger players.

It takes two to tango. I don't believe the Rangers are interested in signing him with a NTC. So yeah... Your assumptions are wrong.

AVs rarely offer NTC clauses and they were signed 3-4 years ago when the team struggled to their core players. Hayes is nowhere near as good and expect to offer a similar type of NTC deal while sending 2-1sts? The team will take their chances in the offseason.

 

[Shootertooter]

How motivated is Sakic in trading valuable assets for a UFA 2C when he can wait 4 months and draft a 1C with the Ottawa pick?

Our time in the sun is when Makar, Timmins and the Ottawa pick are playing and contributing on the Avs.

It depends what you expect the difference between Hayes and your pick to be.
If you are looking for a guy to instantly step in, Hayes is the guy.
If you are hoping the pick turns into a guy that can instantly help out next season, maybe that works out.
Maybe it doesn't. You have to hope Ott. is really bad for a 1C though. That might not happen.

 

[Iracundia]

It depends what you expect the difference between Hayes and your pick to be.
If you are looking for a guy to instantly step in, Hayes is the guy.
If you are hoping the pick turns into a guy that can instantly help out next season, maybe that works out.
Maybe it doesn't. You have to hope Ott. is really bad for a 1C though. That might not happen.

The Avs aren't winning the cup with or without Hayes this season.

Ottawa is 1 point from deadlast in the NHL.
Their top3 scoring forwards (Duchene, Stone, Dzingle) are all UFA's.
Both the owner and GM have consistently used the magic word "rebuild" in describing the direction of the team.

Given all the above right now the Sens are easily the most likely team to finish last in the NHL. This year is the perfect draft year for the Avs in that the top 4 are all forwards who have played C. Over the last 4 drafts the players drafted 1-2 have played in the NHL in their draft year. The top 4 picks from the latest draft are all playing in the NHL.

The smart move is for the Avs to play the season out as is and evaluate after the draft. If they feel they need a stop-gap at that time then go ahead and sign a UFA.