Kevin Hayes - curse or blessing

[dragonoffrost]

just being a pragmatist. Optimism hurts too much with this team.

Oh I get it but being all doom and gloom like some are here due to a few issues is not the way to be either. As you noticed I didn't refute your other points as they had merit to them just Pitlick is what he is and what it's here for and the quote from Myrtetus kinda drove that home to me this morning on my drive in. He's doing what he's here for. Nothing more nothing less sometimes that's a good thing.

 

[PhlthyRich]

just being a pragmatist. Optimism hurts too much with this team.

I hear ya, but it's hard not to be optimistic with this team when comparing them to last season. Especially when you rewind to the hirings of Fletcher and AV; both had concerns and both have been more good than bad (so far). But optimism would be much, much higher if we weren't in the toughest division in hockey right now and down 2 young impact players.

 

[Curufinwe]

Pitlick has been surprisingly good, especially after he started off his Flyers career getting re-injured.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The last thing this team needs is to give a no-skill, 4th liner a two year deal. If he agrees to run it back on a similar one year contract, whatever, but you can’t get attached to these kinds of guys.

 

[dragonoffrost]

I hear ya, but it's hard not to be optimistic with this team when comparing them to last season. Especially when you rewind to the hirings of Fletcher and AV; both had concerns and both have been more good than bad (so far). But optimism would be much, much higher if we weren't in the toughest division in hockey right now and down 2 young impact players.

This is the context that most utter doom and gloom posters gloss over. The Metro is murderers row this season not the Central. It's actually worse because the Central used to only abuse the West the Metro is smoking everyone. Just for example Detroit is 0-14-1 against the Metro that's just plain ridiculous even with Detroit being as bad as they are.

 

[Fire Tortorella]

The last thing this team needs is to give a no-skill, 4th liner a two year deal. If he agrees to run it back one a similar one year contract, whatever, but you can’t get attached to these kinds of guys.

Especially if you're going to be a cap team every year like we are. Your 4th line, especially your wingers, are going to need to be as cheap as possible.

 

[dragonoffrost]

The last thing this team needs is to give a no-skill, 4th liner a two year deal. If he agrees to run it back one a similar one year contract, whatever, but you can’t get attached to these kinds of guys.

Coming off a 3 year deal it's doubtful he will accept a 1 year. Would it be optimal sure but sometimes you roll the second season there and trade him if needed at that cap hit someone will bite.

 

[Curufinwe]

The last thing this team needs is to give a no-skill, 4th liner a two year deal. If he agrees to run it back one a similar one year contract, whatever, but you can’t get attached to these kinds of guys.

Yes, I wouldn't be looking to give Pitlick more than one year, and I'd wait till we hopefully get more news on Patrick and Lindblom.

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Hayes-Konecny
JVR-Frost-Farabee
Laughton-Patrick-Raffl
Aube-Kubel
Vorobyev

 

[dragonoffrost]

Yes, I wouldn't be looking to give Pitlick more than one year, and I'd wait till we hopefully get more news on Patrick and Lindblom.

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Hayes-Konecny
JVR-Frost-Farabee
Laughton-Patrick-Raffl
Aube-Kubel
Vorobyev

There's two things I look at with that. Pitlick could be a cheaper Raffl who's contract will go through next season. And what has Vorobyev/Rubtsov/etc shown that says they will be ready. Again at 1.4 million a season that contract is movable even at the next trade deadline if he's beat by any prospect. It's more about not having to force a kid into the NHL and letting him earn it.

 

[Curufinwe]

Coming off a 3 year deal it's doubtful he will accept a 1 year. Would it be optimal sure but sometimes you roll the second season there and trade him if needed at that cap hit someone will bite.

You're overestimating the market power of a 28 year old 4th liner with a dodgy wrist.

 

[dragonoffrost]

You're overestimating the market power of a 28 year old 4th liner.

Let's see who moves at the trade deadline and come back to that statement

 

[Curufinwe]

Let's see who moves at the trade deadline and come back to that statement

You expect Pitlick to be moved at the deadline?

 

[Tripod]

Trade Raffl in the summer, sign Pitlick to a 1 year deal.

Save on cap space AND add a future asset(pick) into the fold.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Yes, I wouldn't be looking to give Pitlick more than one year, and I'd wait till we hopefully get more news on Patrick and Lindblom.

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Hayes-Konecny
JVR-Frost-Farabee
Laughton-Patrick-Raffl
Aube-Kubel
Vorobyev

Rubtsov
Laczynski
Allison
Cates
Ratcliffe
Twarynski (rather not but he brings it every September)
Sushko...

Bottom 6ers coming out the ears. Yeah they won't all pan out, but if this organization has anything, it's an abundance of 3rd/4th line internal options.

Pitlick has been fine this year, but not good enough to tie up cap for multiple seasons (on this team anyway). Save every penny to splurge on a real upgrade.

And banking on trading 4th line players is never a sound strategy.

 

[Curufinwe]

Oh, look at this. 29 year old 4th liner Derek Grant signed for 1 year at $700,000 after producing 38 points in 122 NHL games (0.311 P/GP) the previous two seasons.

Derek Grant - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Pitlick is at 25 in 94 (0.266 P/GP).

 

[achdumeingute]

Just has to do it for 6 more years

if we get 5 solid years out of the 7, I'll be happy with the deal.

By the time he is no longer a top 6 caliber player, 3rd line Cs will be making 7m per.

 

[Curufinwe]

Rubtsov
Laczynski
Allison
Cates
Ratcliffe
Twarynski (rather not but he brings it every September)
Sushko...

Bottom 6ers coming out the ears. Yeah they won't all pan out, but if this organization has anything, it's an abundance of 3rd/4th line internal options.

Pitlick has been fine this year, but not good enough to tie up cap for multiple seasons (on this team anyway). Save every penny to splurge on a real upgrade.

And banking on trading 4th line players is never a sound strategy.

Bunnaman and Kase, too.

howcaniholdallthese4thliners.jpg

 

[FLYguy3911]

Holding a contract slot anyway and scooping up someone on the waiver wire before the season starts is probably a better option too.

 

[dragonoffrost]

You expect Pitlick to be moved at the deadline?

no but I expect others his age and contract to move...

 

[FlyguyOX]

I mean that’s an awfully orange tint to it.

hayes was a had to get. Duchene wasn’t signing here and we needed the center depth. We paid for it for sure.

AV has made improvements to overall even strength play and the pk. Power play is a dumpster fire and it’s his team.

Braun was a gross overpay for a 4-5 guy.

Niskanen was objectively a win.

pitlick is meh, health is still a concern. He’s a good bottom line guy but nothing special.

Pitlick has had health concerns? Since when?

He's an outstanding 4th liner that can contribute offensively. Idk how you don't see that as a major upgrade over the traffic cone known as Hartman.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Yes, I wouldn't be looking to give Pitlick more than one year, and I'd wait till we hopefully get more news on Patrick and Lindblom.

Giroux-Couturier-Voracek
Lindblom-Hayes-Konecny
JVR-Frost-Farabee
Laughton-Patrick-Raffl
Aube-Kubel
Vorobyev

Tbh I'm taking Pitlick over Raffl at the current point in their careers.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Pitlick has had health concerns? Since when?

He's an outstanding 4th liner that can contribute offensively. Idk how you don't see that as a major upgrade over the traffic cone known as Hartman.

When has he not...? The question with him was never if he had the talent to be effective, but if he could stay healthy enough to remain consistently effective. I didn’t realize this was a shocking take to have.

Since turning pro in 11-12, he’s had one “full” season. Every other season he’s spent significant time on the IR.

I’m glad he’s effective, and he’s an upgrade on Hartman quite obviously. But if he’s not on the roster healthy and playing, he’s upgrading jack shit.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Tbh I'm taking Pitlick over Raffl at the current point in their careers.

The one thing that raffl offers is roster utility. That has some value that pitlick can’t really provide.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

i wanna thx all of you for the in depth discussion about my question. It really helped me in evaluation about the Hayes Myth. I´am a lot more ready to accept him in our team and the beautiful city of Philadelphia.

I agree he isn´t curse or blessing. I only have chosen this thread title to get a reaction and lots of readers. And it doesn´t failed to do its work! ;D

I can accept and understand that Hayes is an important part of the team. For his work on the PK, for his work as 3rd Center and also for his defensive work most of the time.

I wanna also say, that i expect more from him, when it comes to chemistry with linemates (he needs to play more with them, than without them), being consistent good defensively.

If he can add this to his game he would be a solid 2nd line center. That would be great, cause he is payed like one!

Just my two cents!

 

[Ironmanrulez]

maybe just MAYBE it is time to look another TIME on this theme.

Hayes is doing nothing this season. Especially in the last 2 months!