Kevin Hayes - curse or blessing

[Ironmanrulez]

Hey Guys

I really struggle to come to a conclusion about our star acquisition. I wanted to like him from the start, cause we gave him a very huge contract for a very long time. So i know he will be here for the foreseeable future. Iam not the guy who look at the salary or the medial coverage and love the guy cause they say he is a star. So i looked up his stats, his interviews and reminded myself of the games i have seen him in previous years.

In my eyes he was a solid 2 or 3 line center. He was and ever will be a puck magnet in his worst way. He is overhandling the puck in 85% of his plays. He tries fancy plays all the time as if we are up 4:0. He makes lackadaisical offensive plays and backcheck like Kessel in his worst years.

On the other hand i love his puck handling and confidence, when he is playing on the pk. Sometimes it seems that he i playing EA Sports on rookie and is trolling the whole other team. I really give him credit for things like that. Sometimes he is perfect in our end and is positional well to avoid chances or danger passes.

I would like to have a in depth discussion about Kevin. Iam not a huge stats guy and dont know enough about hockey to claim that he is curse or blessing. All i can say that he shows flashes of genius and flashes of evil.

A lot of us are fast with hating on him cause he is looking a bit funny. I would to like to leave this part of the (funny) discussing out of here.

In my eyes there are a few things to factor in:

1. I think that they already know that Patrick will have problems playing a whole season, so they feel the pressure to sign him.

2. He got a very high salary and NMC or NTC and a long contract, so we should expect more from him than being a 3rd Line center on this team.

3. We are a Franchise with a lot of young players, so is he the typ of players who will help this youth grow and lead as an example for years?

4. Are we concerned about his +/-. I know +/- isnt the best stat. But when it gets that high it should be a reason to speak about it.

5. When we wouldn´t have sign Hayes what would have been realistic options at this time.

I hope a few of you like to talk about this topic

Greetz Iron

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[Hurricane28]

They’re not in the position they are without him. He has been a great add to the team. I have no problems with the addition right now

 

[dragonoffrost]

One thing I detest is the complaining about how much he signed for. Look around the league 7 Million is the current going rate for a 2C. Which knowing how much we know now about Patrick you have to think the Flyers viewed signing him as a 2C not a 3C with Patrick slotting at 3C if he becomes healthy. Then he can move to either 3C or wing if Patrick comes back and passes him on the chart. The Flyers didn't count on a kid and they had to pay to not have to rush some prospect.

I love his penalty kill ability I mean we can roll 2 solid sometimes freakishly good PK duos and it shows in the improvement (yes style change does help) but the efficiency proves he's good at the job.

He does seem to be good for the locker room from the recent mic'ed up stuff we've seen. The whole back and forth with Carter Hart in his Boston accent and the recent one with TK where he said "don't say anything stupid" and TK responded "Idiot" come to mind.

I'm still neutral on the signing because he does have warts in his game at times and also what happens down the road when the kids are healthy and ready. But with the cap probably going up in 2 years I don't know that the salary will be too much for even a third line center/penalty kill specialist (think taking some load off G or Coots) at that time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He is the Kevin of Hayes, can of Spam. Required and necessary if you're going to make fried spam, which I think we can all agree we are trying to do.

 

[Striiker]

Someone teach him how to pass. I'm not sure he knows he's allowed.

 

[Stizzle]

They’re not in the position they are without him. He has been a great add to the team. I have no problems with the addition right now

 

[Curufinwe]

Laughton should be the 2C.

 

[landsbergfan]

Kevin Hayes is good and seems to fit in well. Obviously the need for a guy like him this season cannot be understated. He is essential to the success of the team this season, which was obviously a focal point of the team. How much it hurts later on is TBD. If Patrick and Frost develop as intended (which I believe will happen) then it becomes sort of awkward, but it'll work itself out without too much damage (crosses fingers and toes)

His salary is fine. The length is and always has been the issue. NMC makes it difficult to protect 4 defensemen

 

[Ironmanrulez]

They’re not in the position they are without him. He has been a great add to the team. I have no problems with the addition right now

Sure but is this worth to mortgage the future possible? Are we really good enough in the short term with him or would it be better to be patient with the young guys and build slow but a steady contender?

Isn´t his salary a problem in 2 or 3 years with Couts, Sanheim, Hart, Patrick and others need new contracts --> see Toronto

 

[Ironmanrulez]

One thing I detest is the complaining about how much he signed for. Look around the league 7 Million is the current going rate for a 2C. Which knowing how much we know now about Patrick you have to think the Flyers viewed signing him as a 2C not a 3C with Patrick slotting at 3C if he becomes healthy. Then he can move to either 3C or wing if Patrick comes back and passes him on the chart. The Flyers didn't count on a kid and they had to pay to not have to rush some prospect.

i think its the asking price on the free agent market. So in my eyes its not the best idea to acquire free agents of this sort on the free agent market, cause you overpay significantly. Should develop 3rd line PK Centers on our own. Like very much every other good team does. But for that to happen young players needs to get playing time and be developed good (Hacktard, Gordon, AHL). Rubstov should be close as good defensively like Hayes in 2 years. But only if he is going to play. So was it a failure to pay that much for him?

I love his penalty kill ability I mean we can roll 2 solid sometimes freakishly good PK duos and it shows in the improvement (yes style change does help) but the efficiency proves he's good at the job.

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He does seem to be good for the locker room from the recent mic'ed up stuff we've seen. The whole back and forth with Carter Hart in his Boston accent and the recent one with TK where he said "don't say anything stupid" and TK responded "Idiot" come to mind.

Like your arguments here as well ;D

I'm still neutral on the signing because he does have warts in his game at times and also what happens down the road when the kids are healthy and ready. But with the cap probably going up in 2 years I don't know that the salary will be too much for even a third line center/penalty kill specialist (think taking some load off G or Coots) at that time.

I´am not that positive on this part. I think this contract will hurt us. I expect Couts to get 9+. And all the other players who will need raises. We need to unload JVR to Seattle for sure in my eyes!

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Someone teach him how to pass. I'm not sure he knows he's allowed.

Yeah sometimes he send a beautiful pass through 3 defender. And your jaw is dropping. And at the same time you ask yourself and the TV why didn´t you try that the last 100 times. Instead you hold the puck and lost it for a breakaway against us!

 

[landsbergfan]

Sure but is this worth to mortgage the future possible? Are we really good enough in the short term with him or would it be better to be patient with the young guys and build slow but a steady contender?

Isn´t his salary a problem in 2 or 3 years with Couts, Sanheim, Hart, Patrick and others need new contracts --> see Toronto

No one is going to be making 10+ million a year so it isn't a huge issue, but we do have more depth and with Fletcher/Scott's need to spend to the cap it will always be a problem. If we get Seattle to take a large contract then the team will be fine.

Obviously building slow is the smarter way to do it, but everyone was out of patience with that. Just have to hope they don't f*** up too much of the future. This team can and should be very good over the next 2-3 years and is set up to be very good even beyond that.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Laughton should be the 2C.

Do we want that? Is that any good?

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Kevin Hayes is good and seems to fit in well. Obviously the need for a guy like him this season cannot be understated. He is essential to the success of the team this season, which was obviously a focal point of the team. How much it hurts later on is TBD. If Patrick and Frost develop as intended (which I believe will happen) then it becomes sort of awkward, but it'll work itself out without too much damage (crosses fingers and toes)

His salary is fine. The length is and always has been the issue. NMC makes it difficult to protect 4 defensemen

I like the points you make. But i cant follow you with "the salary is fine". I would be fine with a salary at 4,5 - 5,5. I know that never would have happened to a free agent of his class. But that is the point where i would stop going after him in free agency.

And the NMC is a huge problem in my eyes also ;D

 

[Ironmanrulez]

No one is going to be making 10+ million a year so it isn't a huge issue, but we do have more depth and with Fletcher/Scott's need to spend to the cap it will always be a problem. If we get Seattle to take a large contract then the team will be fine.

Obviously building slow is the smarter way to do it, but everyone was out of patience with that. Just have to hope they don't **** up too much of the future. This team can and should be very good over the next 2-3 years and is set up to be very good even beyond that.

I wish i could be as positive as you are.

I wanted to be positive when we signed Shelley. I wanted to be positive when we signed Bryz "humongous" galov. I wanted to be positive when we traded Bob. I wanted to be positive when we sign Haktard.... Its getting very old with this positive thinking.

 

[Starat327]

Hes neither a curse or a blessing. Hes just somewhere in between, and that's ok as well.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Hes neither a curse or a blessing. Hes just somewhere in between, and that's ok as well.

Is this really ok when you look at the Salary + NMC + Length of Contract? To be solid?

 

[eramosat]

He's delivered what was expected, and then some. He's responsible for allowing the Flyers to ice 2 strong lines at anytime, and sometimes 3. Versatile, scores points, kills penalties...and most important, keeps team from having to put guys like Laughton or Frost in 2C situations, which would probably be disastrous, and he also continues in his primary role...when Patrick returns, he can do so as a 3C for as long as needed, Hayes is more than adequate as a 2C and that was a critical role for this team to lock down.

His salary is fine, more than you might want to spend, but good value for what Flyers were looking for and basically had to have, or waste all the rest of their cap not making the playoffs. No Hayes right now, or a similar player, equals disaster for this team's chances.

Hoping for any other draft pick to have assumed his responsibilities was a pipe dream.

Cap? Hayes $$ is fine. I'd be more worried about Patrick, Lindblom, Meyers, Sandheim and Hart $$$ and hoping we're in a position that we cannot afford them all before worrying about Haye's $$. Every one of those other players is needed to realize their best potential.

 

[Striiker]

Hes neither a curse or a blessing. Hes just somewhere in between, and that's ok as well.

This is the correct answer.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I think he has been a great addition to the team. Yeah he has his flaws. Who doesn’t?
he is a elite PKer. Good offensively. Contract length is a issue but that’s what it takes to land a top 6 200 foot player in todays NHL

 

[deadhead]

Hayes is exactly as advertised, and paid the going rate (including the NMC).
He's struggled a bit at 5x5, but a lot of that is a matter of fitting wingers together, every time they seemed to have a match, it was broken up due to injury.
On the PK he's a revelation, on the PP, he's has the highest xGF/60.
He can be the 2C, 3C, or RW, which gives them flexibility to fit Patrick and Frost in at some point, whether this spring or next fall.

Not a game changer, a complementary player like JVR and Voracek.

A minor overpay, but that's free agency, but also only 27, and may still have some upside left in terms of learning to play a more physical game.
With the cap slatted to rise in a few years, his cap hit should be affordable in his 30s when he's a 3RW.

 

[landsbergfan]

I think he has been a great addition to the team. Yeah he has his flaws. Who doesn’t?
he is a elite PKer. Good offensively. Contract length is a issue but that’s what it takes to land a top 6 200 foot player in todays NHL

*in free agency

 

[Hurricane28]

Sure but is this worth to mortgage the future possible? Are we really good enough in the short term with him or would it be better to be patient with the young guys and build slow but a steady contender?

Isn´t his salary a problem in 2 or 3 years with Couts, Sanheim, Hart, Patrick and others need new contracts --> see Toronto

Its way too early to figure out the exact future implications. The Flyers paid the going rate for a 2C in free agency. There's a lot of variables that can happen over the next few years, but I'm not too worried because they have Provorov and Konecny on what appears to be team-friendly contract. The cap is likely going to go up as time goes on.

 

[Rebels57]

Im satisfied. Id like a little more offense but hes rarely played with our best wingers and individual production on this team is down for most guys.

We would have 5-10 fewer standings points and be talking about selling and the draft lottery without him.

Still want them to pick up Athanasiou to play on his wing.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Someone teach him how to pass. I'm not sure he knows he's allowed.

He also needs a shorter stick.