Confirmed with Link: Kevin Hayes 5: signs 7 years, $50M

[deadhead]

Couts pays 15:16, Hayes plays 14:15 at ES, Frost 11:45, Hayes is the 2C in reality.

 

[Striiker]

he's only playing 3rd line because we have other options. Last night he played 2nd line C. He CAN be the 2nd line C, the fact that we don't need him to be is more of a luxury. Having good players up and down the lineup leads to good things (we are seeing some of that this year).

He isn't the entire reason our PK is better...nobody should remotely be saying that. However, individually he's breaking up passes, sticks in good lanes, ect.... constantly.

Kevin Hayes, the player, has been an asset to the team.

He's VERY much like having another (lesser version of) Couturier. (Good size, long reach, heady defensively ect).

Yeah, better other options, that's basically my point.

He doesn't get 3C minutes (sometimes he plays more than Couturier, which is absolutely batsh*t insane) but he's the center on the clear 3rd best line and he hasn't done anything to deserve any higher usage than that. Frosts game is much more raw, but Hayes doesn't improve that line if they were swapped, and obviously he's not even in the same league as Couts.

Based on how he's playing right now, I don't think he'd be a good 2C because he's making too many dumb mistakes that I think would hurt superior wingers production, like holding on to the puck wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too long and trying to do way too much. He certainly has the ability to be one and if he were playing like he had last year he would be, but that's just not what's happening right now. Although that could certainly change.

And I agree, he's been a net positive overall and has played very well on the PK. I don't hate him and I wasn't even bashing him with the post you responded to. My true gripe is the contract and the usage, which isn't his fault and I don't consider when judging the player. When I talk about him being overpaid it's really a knock on Fletcher.

 

[TCTC]

he's only playing 3rd line because we have other options. Last night he played 2nd line C. He CAN be the 2nd line C, the fact that we don't need him to be is more of a luxury. Having good players up and down the lineup leads to good things (we are seeing some of that this year).

He isn't the entire reason our PK is better...nobody should remotely be saying that. However, individually he's breaking up passes, sticks in good lanes, ect.... constantly.

Kevin Hayes, the player, has been an asset to the team.

He's VERY much like having another (lesser version of) Couturier. (Good size, long reach, heady defensively ect).

I like the Couturier comparison. They're very similar. Very smart defensively and they can make their linemates better (Laughton and Farabee have played their best hockey with Hayes). Couturier has more offensive potential, but we don't need Hayes to be a PPG player.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Ehh Coots is a legit 1C who elevates everyone he plays with. Hayes doesn't...or he hasn't so far. He's just kind of been ok. Not a driver, but not a liability.

Hayes is probably more naturally talented than Coots, as crazy as it sounds, but that's part of the problem. He tries to do too much sometimes. I'm not one to tell guys to simplify their games (generally the opposite), but I feel like he has at least one "WTF" moment a game. Either holding on to pucks too long or making an extra pass in a prime scoring area. And that's the biggest separator between a guy like Coots and a guy like Hayes. Coots makes the right play 99 times out of 100. Hayes doesn't. And tbf he doesn't need to be as efficient as Coots, but he needs to be better. Maybe with the injuries, PP time will give him a boost.

 

[deadhead]

I think Hayes has "big contract syndrome," players often struggle the first year of a big contract trying to prove they're worth it instead of just playing their game, and having a revolving door of wingers hasn't helped him settle in.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think Hayes has "big contract syndrome," players often struggle the first year of a big contract trying to prove they're worth it instead of just playing their game, and having a revolving door of wingers hasn't helped him settle in.

In Clarkson's case it was all 7 years.

 

[Curufinwe]

Hayes isn't being used as the 3C, and he has as many ESP as Giroux and JVR. Which is to say, we could do with more production from all of the top 9 forwards; even TK and Couturier aren't that far ahead.

NHL.com - Stats
NHL.com - Stats

 

[deadhead]

Hayes isn't being used as the 3C, and he has as many ESP as Giroux and JVR. Which is to say, we could do with more production from all of the top 9 forwards; even TK and Couturier aren't that far ahead.

NHL.com - Stats
NHL.com - Stats

I think that reflects AV's emphasis on defense first, we're 5th in GA (shades of Trotz!).
As the team gets more comfortable in AV's system, look for scoring to gradually pick up the second half of the season.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Low event team gets low event counting stats. Going back to the offseason AV discussion, that is not what was promised by some.

 

[Curufinwe]

"Hopefully Sanny has his good blades on this period"

 

[Magua]

I don’t think Hayes has a plan with the puck sometimes. He’s actually a good improviser off the rush and on net drives, with underrated dangles and reach, but for a center billed as a playmaker who doesn’t shoot enough, the only plays he’s seemingly made are for himself.

As for the debatable claim that he’s making others better (theoretically, he should), he’s basically held back every linemate this season, minus Farabee. Who is the definition of a versatile can play with anyone player. Then Laughton is a guy who really doesn’t need many puck touches. Hayes, while a puck hog, does seem to play better with more confidence and puck time. So, you need the right players to compliment that. Which is the exact opposite of “making others better.” He’s a good player. But even comparing him to Couturier is insulting. I imagine the people who do that probably have no idea why Couturier is great.

 

[Curufinwe]

 

[Flyer lurker]

Hayes's 7th year was the poor part of the contract. Maybe someone else would have given it to him but still was cringe worthy. 7.1m over say 6.5m a year ain't great but If Hayes plays well in playoffs then the deal looks more tolerable at least.

 

[deadhead]

I think expectations of Hayes were a bit exaggerated by the contract.
It was a typical $1M a year overpay for a FA (look at what other FAs got the last couple years) and the NMC was standard for top FAs.

However, Hayes is playing up to realistic expectations, a 35-40 ES scorer who picked up another 10 or so on both the PK and PP.
A top PK guy, a PP2 guy, fills a lot of slots.

Now that he's had some time to settle in, and have some steady linemates, he's showing why he was signed.
If you want Hayes to be a franchise type center, you'll be disappointed, but if he was, he'd have gotten $10-11M a year.
If you accept that he's a solid 2C who contributes in a number of ways, you'll be happy

PK is vastly underrated - since PK is the mirror of the PP, guys who suppress PP scoring have as much value as guys who are leading scorers on the PP.
If a guy who scores 20-25 PP points is worth $2-3M more a year, then a guy who reduces PP scoring is also worth extra money.

 

[FLYguy3911]

8 points in 8 games since returning to the PP.

Unfortunately it happened because of the Lindblom situation, but you cannot convince me a player doesn't receive a psychological boost with a bump in usage.

 

[Striiker]

Or a hit to confidence when they get their usage lowered for no reason.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don’t think Hayes has a plan with the puck sometimes. He’s actually a good improviser off the rush and on net drives, with underrated dangles and reach, but for a center billed as a playmaker who doesn’t shoot enough, the only plays he’s seemingly made are for himself.

As for the debatable claim that he’s making others better (theoretically, he should), he’s basically held back every linemate this season, minus Farabee. Who is the definition of a versatile can play with anyone player. Then Laughton is a guy who really doesn’t need many puck touches. Hayes, while a puck hog, does seem to play better with more confidence and puck time. So, you need the right players to compliment that. Which is the exact opposite of “making others better.” He’s a good player. But even comparing him to Couturier is insulting. I imagine the people who do that probably have no idea why Couturier is great.

He holds the puck and passes up several plays until oops, no more plays are available.

It's Voracekian to watch; often impressive that he maintains possession, but in the end, what was it for? But then he also doesn't produce like Voracek in the end, either.

Quite strange.

 

[Adtar02]

Ehh Coots is a legit 1C who elevates everyone he plays with. Hayes doesn't...or he hasn't so far. He's just kind of been ok. Not a driver, but not a liability.

Hayes is probably more naturally talented than Coots, as crazy as it sounds, but that's part of the problem. He tries to do too much sometimes. I'm not one to tell guys to simplify their games (generally the opposite), but I feel like he has at least one "WTF" moment a game. Either holding on to pucks too long or making an extra pass in a prime scoring area. And that's the biggest separator between a guy like Coots and a guy like Hayes. Coots makes the right play 99 times out of 100. Hayes doesn't. And tbf he doesn't need to be as efficient as Coots, but he needs to be better. Maybe with the injuries, PP time will give him a boost.

To me the biggest difference is iq. His iq is way lower than coots

 

[Lindberg]

Kevin Hayes was a decent signing but turned out very good especially with finding out that Nolan Patrick was going to be out. Then the Lindblom stuff happened.

 

[Striiker]

It’s funny how opinions of players swing so wildly.

A short bad spell and it’s doom and gloom, a short hot spell and they’re amazing.

Hayes was not as bad as he was playing a few weeks ago and he’s not as good as he’s playing right now. But over the course of a season this stuff evens out and you can see the big picture better.

What’s great is this hot streak is coming at the perfect time. Hopefully it lasts a while.

 

[TCTC]

Hayes needed some time to get his offense going, but now he's shown why he was one of the most coveted FAs this summer and why it was a good decision to sign him.
His PK shift against the Rangers was phenomenal. He's so good at protecting the puck. Even better than Voracek.
He still needs to make better decisions with the puck sometimes, but he has the size, the skill and the work ethic to compensate.

 

[Rebels57]

Can't start a new thread but think this is the most relevant thread to talk about Kevin Hayes.

What exactly were the Flyers thinking and can they possibly get out of his contract? This contract may single handily delay their rebuild. He is a 3rd line center making $7 million. That's going to be a problem.

This is aging like cheap milk.

 

[Tripod]

At times, he passes up scoring opportunities SH, to kill more time off the clock. Like in this clip, he could have taken on that last Dman once he went to the middle of the ice and try scoring, but instead booted it back to the NZ.

HOW he pk's is so refreshing to see. He does such a good job ragging the puck and protecting it. Such a great addition to the PK. Nice to see the offense finally start to happen more. And yeah, 3 PP points in his last 5 games. That helps with confidence for sure.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

At times, he passes up scoring opportunities SH, to kill more time off the clock. Like in this clip, he could have taken on that last Dman once he went to the middle of the ice and try scoring, but instead booted it back to the NZ.

HOW he pk's is so refreshing to see. He does such a good job ragging the puck and protecting it. Such a great addition to the PK. Nice to see the offense finally start to happen more. And yeah, 3 PP points in his last 5 games. That helps with confidence for sure.

One would say he is dogged in his efforts...

 

[deadhead]

One would say he is dogged in his efforts...

There is a special place in hell . . .