Confirmed with Link: Kevin Hayes 5: signs 7 years, $50M

[CanadianFlyer88]

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[Curufinwe]

Make Hayes, while the sun shines.

 

[Jtown]

Sean Couturier is undoubtedly a better skater than Kevin Hayes.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Mr Harvard vs the future.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Sean Couturier is undoubtedly a better skater than Kevin Hayes.

He did seem way faster than I thought from watching him on the Jets. Not sure I agree

 

[Curufinwe]

Hayes
Patrick
Couturier
Laughton

 

[FlyerNutter]

He did seem way faster than I thought from watching him on the Jets. Not sure I agree

Whats your thoughts on the direction Winnipeg is taking?

Losing Trouba stings no doubt, but his displeasure with the city was known for some time. A step back season to take a few steps forward the next?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I know the main boards have been hounding the Hayes' contract as a really bad one, but I look at one of the reigning Conn Smythe winner and I have to argue that Hayes' deal isn't so bad.

Ryan O'Reilly - 7 x 7.5. Signed extension at 24 years old.
Kevin Hayes - 7 x 7.14. Signed at 27 years old.

Ryan's high total was 64 points (28G & 36A)
Kevin's high total is 55 pts (19G & 36A)

I know you can certainly argue defensive prowess in O'Reilly making him more valuable (I would, too) but Hayes isn't a slouch either.

Basically: I think they're fairly comparable, yet O'Reilly's was signed about 4 years ago and Hayes' is cheaper.

 

[Jtown]

He did seem way faster than I thought from watching him on the Jets. Not sure I agree

The fact that this is even up for debate is not necessarily a good sign.

 

[Curufinwe]

ROR had 77 points this year.

 

[hatcher]

Hayes can fly for a big guy. He's not a slug.

 

[hatcher]

He did seem way faster than I thought from watching him on the Jets. Not sure I agree

You are correct.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Whats your thoughts on the direction Winnipeg is taking?

Losing Trouba stings no doubt, but his displeasure with the city was known for some time. A step back season to take a few steps forward the next?

They are gonna def be worse on paper. Def a problem when you have a bunch of young expensive players, you can't keep them all.

Should not over pay Myers, trading Ehlers to improve the D make no sense, but when you go from Trouba Buff Myers on the right side to Buff Poolman Pionk, that is a MASSIVE step down.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

ROR had 77 points this year.

This year. Not the year he signed the deal (but of course I need to edit my OP as I said it was his high, but that's a random detail).

 

[mja]

uggh. If any player suffers any injury and is out...it's the same exact scenario. We are out the investment. It's a risk. Its ALL a risk.

Except it isn't the same scenario. 7 years. NMC for 3 of them. Have to protect him during the ED. 5 years, no NMC, don't have to protect during the ED, and suddenly it's more palatable. Less risk. Caphit matters. Term matters. Trade / movement clauses matter.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. The opportunity cost of having Hayes and preventing us from better players is all speculation. If we have an opportunity down the road to get a better player...best believe we will...and then trade some guys to make it work.

You can't just trade guys to make it work. It doesn't work that way. None of this works that way. What if we start bridging guys to fit Hayes' salary in and then they blow up and we get Troubaed or they eventually land a big UFA deal on some other team and suddenly we're out our 1C or 1D, all because we decided to blow our load on a good / not great 2C.

To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying any of this will happen, or won't happen, or is likely or not likely to happen. But there's real risk inherent in this signing that some of you are just completely glossing over. There's 100 different ways this thing can go bad.

And we're already out of the Panarin sweepstakes. Now, you can say it was a pipe dream or whatever, but for a player of that caliber, you pull out all of the stops. I would have happily offered Panarin the most valuable contract in the league to make him turn it down. He's an elite talent and a difference maker that would elevate this team overnight. Kevin Hayes is not that.

We can protect Patrick or Konecny NO Problem. We might not be able to PAY for them if they break out...but likely Jake will be the casualty then, and we will keep the younger guy.

And what if Jake is still productive. What if it is Hayes that's the weak link, but he's the guy we're forced to choose?

In regards to the ED comment...it is a strategy that worked last time...I have to believe that GMs will talk....and work things out weeks in advance "unofficially". If SEA plays hardball...we trade the 4th Dman for high picks to someone else...and Seattle gets JVR and nothing extra. If we keep our Dman ..they get 2 prospects and JVR (in my proposal)....seems smarter to work with us...

Because all of this worked out so well the last time. Half the teams that made a deal with Vegas to protect this or that player ended up regretting it. And you just can't assume anything. That's how bad shit happens.

 

[FlyerNutter]

They are gonna def be worse on paper. Def a problem when you have a bunch of young expensive players, you can't keep them all.

Should not over pay Myers, trading Ehlers to improve the D make no sense, but when you go from Trouba Buff Myers on the right side to Buff Poolman Pionk, that is a MASSIVE step down.

I'm not really sure what the answer is. Its unfortunate they ran into St Louis so early last season - the team was struggling to find its game against a very tough opponent.

Almost forced into overpaying for Myers. Buff injuries are a bit worrisome.

There is a big hole on that back end, and 2C. I'm not a Roslovic fan.

 

[landsbergfan]

Today marks 1 year since I started here and not a single person has said anything about it. Consider me offended, upset, and heartbroken until further notice.

 

[Curufinwe]

If I was Seattle, I'd take 28 year old Ghost or 24 year old Myers rather than 32 year old Jake or JVR.

 

[bennysflyers16]

I'm not really sure what the answer is. Its unfortunate they ran into St Louis so early last season - the team was struggling to find its game against a very tough opponent.

Almost forced into overpaying for Myers. Buff injuries are a bit worrisome.

There is a big hole on that back end, and 2C. I'm not a Roslovic fan.

And to think for Jets fans, your fav new Flyer had 3 glorious chances and if he scored, they could be cup champs

Regarding Myers, he will sign a home town discount, but his hometown discount is looking like it could be 5.5 x 5.

 

[Chinatown88]

Today marks 1 year since I started here and not a single person has said anything about it. Consider me offended, upset, and heartbroken until further notice.

 

[landsbergfan]

If I was Seattle, I'd take 28 year old Ghost or 24 year old Myers rather than 32 year old Jake or JVR.

Kinda depends on what other teams expose, but Vegas put a high priority on drafting defensemen. I would expect Seattle to have a similar approach

 

[Ghosts Beer]

He did seem way faster than I thought from watching him on the Jets. Not sure I agree

He chews up ice pretty well.

 

[Doodootheclown]

Today marks 1 year since I started here and not a single person has said anything about it. Consider me offended, upset, and heartbroken until further notice.

 

[achdumeingute]

Except it isn't the same scenario. 7 years. NMC for 3 of them. Have to protect him during the ED. 5 years, no NMC, don't have to protect during the ED, and suddenly it's more palatable. Less risk. Caphit matters. Term matters. Trade / movement clauses matter.



You can't just trade guys to make it work. It doesn't work that way. None of this works that way. What if we start bridging guys to fit Hayes' salary in and then they blow up and we get Troubaed or they eventually land a big UFA deal on some other team and suddenly we're out our 1C or 1D, all because we decided to blow our load on a good / not great 2C.

To be perfectly clear, I'm not saying any of this will happen, or won't happen, or is likely or not likely to happen. But there's real risk inherent in this signing that some of you are just completely glossing over. There's 100 different ways this thing can go bad.

And we're already out of the Panarin sweepstakes. Now, you can say it was a pipe dream or whatever, but for a player of that caliber, you pull out all of the stops. I would have happily offered Panarin the most valuable contract in the league to make him turn it down. He's an elite talent and a difference maker that would elevate this team overnight. Kevin Hayes is not that.



And what if Jake is still productive. What if it is Hayes that's the weak link, but he's the guy we're forced to choose?



Because all of this worked out so well the last time. Half the teams that made a deal with Vegas to protect this or that player ended up regretting it. And you just can't assume anything. That's how bad **** happens.

I'm not assuming anything...other than there will be ways to deal with things...because there always is. Some are more painful choices than others.

The part that gets me is the complete absolutism with this conversation in the last day. I don't think I have that...I don't mean to if I have sounded that way.

Neither you will be 100% correct, nor will I...there will be a blend. Many around here seem to be firmly resigned that these 3 recent moves have destroyed us. I'm just not seeing that.

3 years is a long time. I don't think Hayes loan contract will drastically alter our course for the negative. If Hayes is the weak link we can complain about it then. It could be G. It could be Jake, Patrick could have never worked out. Lots of things "could" happen.

We will have to prioritize the players to be here as things happen over the next 3 years. Does Hayes complicate that...yes. was it worth the risk of doing nothing...IMO...no.

 

[Magua]

As for Hayes, he is a C 1st. He is being paid to be our C. Like it or not, it might cost us Frost or Patrick in a few years....maybe to trade for a Dman after expansion. Or maybe Hayes does slide to wing. Or maybe Frost busts. Or maybe Patrick remain a #3C. Or maybe Frost becomes an elite scoring winger. We simply don't know how it will play out because there are too many unresolved variables.

I'm in agreement with the red. Hayes' versatility, even if overpaid, makes this a workable contract. You have the advantage, unlike JVR, of being able to play him with anyone, in any role, at 3 forward positions. While I'm still bullish on Patrick and Frost, there is room for the certainty NOW of Hayes with the unknown variability of Patrick and Frost's upside in the years to come. Top 9 roles exist for all three; Hayes doesn't block anyone on PP1.

The blue is "what is you doing, baby?" territory. Like it or not, it might cost us Frost or Patrick? We're not talking about Hartman and Laughton. If the signing of Hayes in ANY way leads to a future where Frost or Patrick -- upon even flashing their upside and being on cheap contracts -- get squeezed out "like it or not," Fletcher deserves to be tarred and feathered. Signing Hayes to lose a stud defenseman, only to trade a stud young forward with more upside to partially recoup the stud defenseman you lost is Chiarelli territory. Now, I don't think it's too much of a plausible scenario, but the nonchalantness is disconcerting.