Confirmed with Link: Kevin Hayes 5: signs 7 years, $50M

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Meanwhile many Rag fans have been saying AV misused Hayes by forcing him into a less offensive role and that’s why he didn’t produce better before last year. So it may not be a coincidence.

Or what's more likely is AV sat on a young forward and stressed playing two way hockey b/c like most young forwards, he had been encouraged to score his whole career and had shaky fundamentals.
The fact that AV lobbied Hayes to come here suggests that's not an issue for the coach or the player anymore.
 

hatcher

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
12,377
4,085
Kelowna BC
Or what's more likely is AV sat on a young forward and stressed playing two way hockey b/c like most young forwards, he had been encouraged to score his whole career and had shaky fundamentals.
The fact that AV lobbied Hayes to come here suggests that's not an issue for the coach or the player anymore.
Never was.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,494
164,354
Armored Train
Or what's more likely is AV sat on a young forward and stressed playing two way hockey b/c like most young forwards, he had been encouraged to score his whole career and had shaky fundamentals.
The fact that AV lobbied Hayes to come here suggests that's not an issue for the coach or the player anymore.

All the Rangers fans I know have not described that. They described someone more akin to Couturier under Berube, a player who clearly could have produced if given a chance who wasn't given a chance. The problem was that the moment Hayes demonstrated he could play defensively he was pigeonholed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Danko and Rebels57

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,442
155,161
Pennsylvania
All the Rangers fans I know have not described that. They described someone more akin to Couturier under Berube, a player who clearly could have produced if given a chance who wasn't given a chance. The problem was that the moment Hayes demonstrated he could play defensively he was pigeonholed.
That's exactly what I read too.
 

NYCFlyer

Registered User
Nov 23, 2002
1,364
400
NYC
All the Rangers fans I know have not described that. They described someone more akin to Couturier under Berube, a player who clearly could have produced if given a chance who wasn't given a chance. The problem was that the moment Hayes demonstrated he could play defensively he was pigeonholed.
I have lived in NYC for 30 years and go to alot of Ranger games. This statement is generally correct imo although I think it was more that he was the Rangers best defensive center along with Stepan and AV thought Stepan could give them more offense than KH so he didnt score as much as he could have. KH is a very good center and although a bit overpaid will improve our team once AV figures our who he pairs best with.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rebels57

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,494
164,354
Armored Train
Ranger fan here, POTVIN SUCKS, good pick up with Hayes, he is a really good player and will make your team better, looking forward to a really brutal Rangers-Flyers rivalry in the 2020's. We gotta bring it back! **** the Devils and Islanders, Rangers - Flyers is the real deal. Good luck!

We are hate-friends now.
 

Jettany

Registered User
Feb 21, 2018
2,625
1,396
I have lived in NYC for 30 years and go to alot of Ranger games. This statement is generally correct imo although I think it was more that he was the Rangers best defensive center along with Stepan and AV thought Stepan could give them more offense than KH so he didnt score as much as he could have. KH is a very good center and although a bit overpaid will improve our team once AV figures our who he pairs best with.
Me too here in NY. And my overall impression from friends that are Ranger and Islander fans. Rangers fans like hayes a lot. Islander fans did not like Brock Nelson. But he played much better this year under Trotz. Now they have "we need to see it again" attitude. Not buried in every conversation anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rebels57

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
I think physical two way players are better with disciplined defensive coaches that keep them focused, put them in a wide open scheme and usually they don't have the chops to keep up with the smaller, faster, more skilled forwards, and their best attributes are wasted.

But some of this with Hayes is confusing youth and usage, that is, HCs generally limit the responsibilities of a young player.
Hayes 22 year old rookie - 8th in ES, 11:59, just ahead of JT Miller
2nd year - 9th in ES, 12:07, Fast (24), Kreider (24), Miller (22), Stepan (25) ahead of him
3rd year - 5th in ES, 13:40,
4th year - 4th in ES, 13:59, just ahead of Zibanejad, Hayes and Zuc the only two forwards with > 30 ES points
last year - 3rd in ES, 14:57, behind only Zibanejad and Zuc.

So I see more AV gradually bringing him along, increasing his responsibilities, and last season was simply a continuation of that trend.
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
81,647
138,659
Philadelphia, PA
We are hate-friends now.

Obviously the older Flyers fans think differently of teams like Rangers, Islanders, & Caps opposed to the younger ones like myself. The Devils & Pens just always pushed any other teams to the way side for me in all my life time as being a Flyer fan.

The Isles have pretty much been irrelevant in the entirety of my life time in general. They’ve never had a season really in my life time where they were considered a Stanley Cup contender. The Rangers have been but their windows have really never matched up long term with the Flyers like the Devils & Pens. Their best run through my life time was this decade where the Flyers were largely irrelevant/mediocre.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WestrnPhlyr

Embiid

*Injured
May 27, 2010
32,582
20,877
Philadelphia
Obviously the older Flyers fans think differently of teams like Rangers, Islanders, & Caps opposed to the younger ones like myself. The Devils & Pens just always pushed any other teams to the way side for me in all my life time as being a Flyer fan.

The Isles have pretty much been irrelevant in the entirety of my life time in general. They’ve never had a season really in my life time where they were considered a Stanley Cup contender. The Rangers have been but their windows have really never matched up long term with the Flyers like the Devils & Pens. Their best run through my life time was this decade where the Flyers were largely irrelevant/mediocre.
Kind of always felt bad for Pat Lafontaine....

Didn't like Turgeon....
 

Rebels57

Former Flyers fan
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2014
76,383
122,699
Ranger fan here, POTVIN SUCKS, good pick up with Hayes, he is a really good player and will make your team better, looking forward to a really brutal Rangers-Flyers rivalry in the 2020's. We gotta bring it back! **** the Devils and Islanders, Rangers - Flyers is the real deal. Good luck!

:yo:
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,325
103,987
All the Rangers fans I know have not described that. They described someone more akin to Couturier under Berube, a player who clearly could have produced if given a chance who wasn't given a chance. The problem was that the moment Hayes demonstrated he could play defensively he was pigeonholed.

If you want to see a truly odd bunch of metrics, look into Grabner/Hayes/Miller in 2016-17.

They spent more than half the year together, got early Couturier-style insanely tough usage, very few OZone starts, and their entire focus was Hakstol 4th line style defense and springing Grabner for breakaways. They got their doors blown off despite having really good transitional numbers when allowed to play normally. It was just so incredibly weird all the way around.

Sidenote, but one thing Vigneault never properly prioritized there that I hope he’s learned from is that Hayes with 2 Shooters is not where you want to be. He’s pretty good at turning first and second passes into Controlled Entries, but he’s not a Voracek you just create room for and watch magic happen. He needs a quality passer with him to get him into space further ahead in the Neutral Zone.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,751
86,033
Nova Scotia
Sidenote, but one thing Vigneault never properly prioritized there that I hope he’s learned from is that Hayes with 2 Shooters is not where you want to be. He’s pretty good at turning first and second passes into Controlled Entries, but he’s not a Voracek you just create room for and watch magic happen. He needs a quality passer with him to get him into space further ahead in the Neutral Zone.
That should be easy....do we even have 2 shooter...lol.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
127,494
164,354
Armored Train
If you want to see a truly odd bunch of metrics, look into Grabner/Hayes/Miller in 2016-17.

They spent more than half the year together, got early Couturier-style insanely tough usage, very few OZone starts, and their entire focus was Hakstol 4th line style defense and springing Grabner for breakaways. They got their doors blown off despite having really good transitional numbers when allowed to play normally. It was just so incredibly weird all the way around.

Sidenote, but one thing Vigneault never properly prioritized there that I hope he’s learned from is that Hayes with 2 Shooters is not where you want to be. He’s pretty good at turning first and second passes into Controlled Entries, but he’s not a Voracek you just create room for and watch magic happen. He needs a quality passer with him to get him into space further ahead in the Neutral Zone.

:laugh:

One of said friends specifically joked AV might request Grabner to re-establish the "pass to Grabner" transition
 
  • Like
Reactions: JojoTheWhale

mja

Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
Jan 7, 2005
12,578
28,810
Lucy the Elephant's Belly
Obviously the older Flyers fans think differently of teams like Rangers, Islanders, & Caps opposed to the younger ones like myself. The Devils & Pens just always pushed any other teams to the way side for me in all my life time as being a Flyer fan.

First, you have to understand that Dale Hunter is the most loathsome human being in the history of the species.
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
81,647
138,659
Philadelphia, PA
First, you have to understand that Dale Hunter is the most loathsome human being in the history of the species.

I was like 8-9 years old when Dale Hunter last played. I get he was an asshole looking back it but I honestly don’t really have much vivid memories of him at all. He was on that cup team that got swept by Detroit but I don’t really remember him. Olaf Kolzig, Adam Oates, Peter Bondra, Joey Juneau, Steve Konowalchuk, etc. I remember.

Claude Lemieux on the other hand I absolutely do remember & remember hating him like most people did back then. Obviously those brawls/games between Colorado & Detroit during that era are hard to forget.
 
Last edited:

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
22,590
16,402
Obviously a counter-attack strategy will lead to bad possession stats. Does that mean it wasn’t successful?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hatcher

prototypical4thliner

Registered User
Jan 12, 2017
3,989
5,971
Ranger fan here, POTVIN SUCKS, good pick up with Hayes, he is a really good player and will make your team better, looking forward to a really brutal Rangers-Flyers rivalry in the 2020's. We gotta bring it back! **** the Devils and Islanders, Rangers - Flyers is the real deal. Good luck!

We are hate-friends now.

Embrace the hatred.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WestrnPhlyr

lancer247

Registered User
Jan 16, 2007
4,781
888
I don’t know how to find them to verify but supposedly Hayes pts off the rush are really good. He is a high percentage finisher off the rush.

I doubt it would happen but I wonder if Giroux and Voracek/TK might be his best linemates.

JVR Coots Voracek
Giroux Hayes TK
Lindblom Patrick xxx
Pitlick Laughton Raffl
 

lancer247

Registered User
Jan 16, 2007
4,781
888
Ranger fan here, POTVIN SUCKS, good pick up with Hayes, he is a really good player and will make your team better, looking forward to a really brutal Rangers-Flyers rivalry in the 2020's. We gotta bring it back! **** the Devils and Islanders, Rangers - Flyers is the real deal. Good luck!

You and Gary Bettmen too. The league is always better when they can roll out meaningful games between the Flyers and Rangers on prime time.
 

WestrnPhlyr

Go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
Jul 17, 2015
1,269
2,058
NW Inland Empire
Ranger fan here, POTVIN SUCKS, good pick up with Hayes, he is a really good player and will make your team better, looking forward to a really brutal Rangers-Flyers rivalry in the 2020's. We gotta bring it back! **** the Devils and Islanders, Rangers - Flyers is the real deal. Good luck!

:clap::yo:

Obviously the older Flyers fans think differently of teams like Rangers, Islanders, & Caps opposed to the younger ones like myself. The Devils & Pens just always pushed any other teams to the way side for me in all my life time as being a Flyer fan.

The Isles have pretty much been irrelevant in the entirety of my life time in general. They’ve never had a season really in my life time where they were considered a Stanley Cup contender. The Rangers have been but their windows have really never matched up long term with the Flyers like the Devils & Pens. Their best run through my life time was this decade where the Flyers were largely irrelevant/mediocre.

I must day that I hate all of our rivals equally.....with the white hot passion of a thousand suns.
That said, by rivals I essentially mean the old Patrick Division rivals (NJ, NYR, NYI, WAS, PIT). When they added CAR and CBJ it was fine but I dont hold the same level of hatred for them.....yet. There's just not enough history there for me personally....again, yet
 

Here4ThaLids

“Sunshine has always been our enemy.”
Sep 28, 2018
3,084
8,714
Obviously the older Flyers fans think differently of teams like Rangers, Islanders, & Caps opposed to the younger ones like myself. The Devils & Pens just always pushed any other teams to the way side for me in all my life time as being a Flyer fan.

The Isles have pretty much been irrelevant in the entirety of my life time in general. They’ve never had a season really in my life time where they were considered a Stanley Cup contender. The Rangers have been but their windows have really never matched up long term with the Flyers like the Devils & Pens. Their best run through my life time was this decade where the Flyers were largely irrelevant/mediocre.

The natural, structural rival is New York. This is mostly because of proximity, but also because the two cities are cut from the same cloth and share more in common with each other than Boston or Washington -- fights between brothers are often much fiercer than those between acquaintances. If you haven't lived through a Rangers-Flyers cycle, just wait, you will -- and you will feel the full weight of national media pressing down on you, driven by the enormous NY echo chamber, you will rub shoulders with the blue jerseys in places you previously felt safe, and you will understand.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->