prototypical4thliner
Registered User
- Jan 12, 2017
- 4,004
- 5,992
All things considered, the jokes write themselves.There is a special place in hell . . .
Confirmed with Link: Kevin Hayes 5: signs 7 years, $50M
- Thread starter CanadianFlyer88
- Start date
The Madrigal
Registered User
Half way through the season and this is no different than when they made the signing. It's an overpayment but a necessary one. The need at center was even bigger than we as fans realized with the Patrick situation. Hayes is on pace for 24 goals/48 points with 38 of those points at ES which is about you would expect/hope for from him.
backburner
Registered User
Fire Tortorella
Formerly Flyersfan1406
BritainStix
F**k Cutter Gauthier
- Oct 20, 2016
- 6,599
- 9,660
He has single handedly transformed the PK too. He does things that we haven't seen since Richards was here.
He must be abaolutely horrid to play against.
He must be abaolutely horrid to play against.
The Madrigal
Registered User
He has clearly made the team better which is all that matters.
I think the more aggressive PK also plays into it. That f***ing sit back and let people pick apart the box PK under Lappy was dreadful. I never understood them running it that way since Lappy himself was an aggressive PKer.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
PK last year, in 51 games post-Hak: 82.2%
PK this year, through 37 games: 83%
Hayes has been good on the PK but what actually singlehandedly transformed it was when Hakstol got fired and it became more aggressive.
Also, in those 51 games last year, the goaltending was much worse than it has been this year.
PK this year, through 37 games: 83%
Hayes has been good on the PK but what actually singlehandedly transformed it was when Hakstol got fired and it became more aggressive.
Also, in those 51 games last year, the goaltending was much worse than it has been this year.
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
PK (players listed by TOI per game)
2019-20: xGA/60: 6.53, S% 84.68 - Hayes, Couts, Laughton/Lindblom, Raffl, Giroux, Provorov, Niskanen, Braun, Sanheim, Hagg, Hart/Elliott
2018-19 (Hak): xGA/60: 7.06; S% 81.63 - Couts, Laughton, Giroux, Raffl/Weise/Lehtera, Provorov, Gudas, AMac, Hagg,
2018-19 (Gordo): xGA/60: 6.50; S% 87.17
2017-18: xGA/60: 6.51; S% 81.38 - Couts, Filppula, Raffl, Leier/Laughton/Simmonds/Giroux, Provorov, Gudas, AMac, Hagg, Elliott/Neuvirth/Mrazek
2016-17: xGA/60: 5.64; S% 84.18 - PEB, VdV, Couts, Simmonds, AMac, Provorov, Gudas, Manning, Mason/Neuvirth
2015-16: xGA/60: 6.43; S% 86.07 - PEB, VdV, Couts, Read. Giroux, Schultz, Gudas, MDZ, Schenn/AMac, Streit, Mason/Neuvirth
2014-15: xGA/60: 6.69; S% 83.47 - Couts, PEB, Read, VdV, Coburn, Schultz, Schenn, Grossman, MDZ, AMac, Mason/Emergy
2013-14: xGA/60: 5.61; S% 87.76 - Couts, Read, Hall, Raffl, Coburn, Kimmo, Grossman, Schenn, Mason/Emery
2012-13: xGA/60: 5.04; S% 87.74 - Talbot, Fedotenko, Read, Giroux, Coburn, Grossman, Kimmo, Schenn, Bryz
2011-12: xGA/60: 6.12; S% 84.32 - Talbot, Couts, Read, Giroux, Kimmo, Coburn, Meszaros, Carle, Bryz/Bob
2010-11: xGA/60: 6.06; S% 86.15 - Betts, Powe, Richards, Giroux, Kimmo, Pronger, Coburn, Bob/Boucher
2019-20: xGA/60: 6.53, S% 84.68 - Hayes, Couts, Laughton/Lindblom, Raffl, Giroux, Provorov, Niskanen, Braun, Sanheim, Hagg, Hart/Elliott
2018-19 (Hak): xGA/60: 7.06; S% 81.63 - Couts, Laughton, Giroux, Raffl/Weise/Lehtera, Provorov, Gudas, AMac, Hagg,
2018-19 (Gordo): xGA/60: 6.50; S% 87.17
2017-18: xGA/60: 6.51; S% 81.38 - Couts, Filppula, Raffl, Leier/Laughton/Simmonds/Giroux, Provorov, Gudas, AMac, Hagg, Elliott/Neuvirth/Mrazek
2016-17: xGA/60: 5.64; S% 84.18 - PEB, VdV, Couts, Simmonds, AMac, Provorov, Gudas, Manning, Mason/Neuvirth
2015-16: xGA/60: 6.43; S% 86.07 - PEB, VdV, Couts, Read. Giroux, Schultz, Gudas, MDZ, Schenn/AMac, Streit, Mason/Neuvirth
2014-15: xGA/60: 6.69; S% 83.47 - Couts, PEB, Read, VdV, Coburn, Schultz, Schenn, Grossman, MDZ, AMac, Mason/Emergy
2013-14: xGA/60: 5.61; S% 87.76 - Couts, Read, Hall, Raffl, Coburn, Kimmo, Grossman, Schenn, Mason/Emery
2012-13: xGA/60: 5.04; S% 87.74 - Talbot, Fedotenko, Read, Giroux, Coburn, Grossman, Kimmo, Schenn, Bryz
2011-12: xGA/60: 6.12; S% 84.32 - Talbot, Couts, Read, Giroux, Kimmo, Coburn, Meszaros, Carle, Bryz/Bob
2010-11: xGA/60: 6.06; S% 86.15 - Betts, Powe, Richards, Giroux, Kimmo, Pronger, Coburn, Bob/Boucher
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Some more interesting information about the PK this year...
PK TOI
Hayes: 77:09
Couturier: 72:24
Lindblom: 44:25
Giroux: 39:58
Raffl: 39:43
Laughton: 28:55
CF%
Giroux: 26.42
Couturier: 25.23
Lindblom: 25.68
Laughton: 21.95
Hayes: 19.05
Raffl: 17.54
CA/60
Giroux: 55.55
Couturier: 66.30
Laughton: 66.63
Raffl: 70.97
Lindblom: 74.27
Hayes: 79.33
xGF%
Giroux: 25.97
Couturier: 14.93
Hayes: 14.28
Laughton: 12.01
Lindblom: 11.81
Raffl: 10.95
xGA
Laughton: 3.24
Giroux: 3.40
Raffl: 3.62
Lindblom: 6.13
Couturier: 7.93
Hayes: 8.49
xGA/60
Giroux: 5.1
Raffl: 5.47
Couturier: 6.58
Hayes: 6.6
Laughton: 6.73
Lindblom: 8.82
GA/60
Giroux: 1.50
Raffl: 3.02
Laughton: 4.15
Hayes: 5.44
Couturier: 7.46
Lindblom: 12.15
GF%
Giroux: 66.67 (2 goals for, 1 against)
Hayes: 12.50 (1 goals for, 7 against)
Laughton: 0.00 (0 goals for, 2 against)
Couturier: 0.00 (0 goals for, 9 against)
Lindblom: 0.00 (0 goals for, 9 against)
Laughton: 0.00 (0 goals for, 2 against)
It also appears as if Provorov, Niskanen, Braun, Laughton, Raffl, and Giroux all have better CF% and xGF% without Hayes than with him.
So it seems as if Hayes has been middle of the pack, at best, and Giroux is just a god. But Hayes has had some flashy moments while on the PK, so maybe that's what confuses some.
PK TOI
Hayes: 77:09
Couturier: 72:24
Lindblom: 44:25
Giroux: 39:58
Raffl: 39:43
Laughton: 28:55
CF%
Giroux: 26.42
Couturier: 25.23
Lindblom: 25.68
Laughton: 21.95
Hayes: 19.05
Raffl: 17.54
CA/60
Giroux: 55.55
Couturier: 66.30
Laughton: 66.63
Raffl: 70.97
Lindblom: 74.27
Hayes: 79.33
xGF%
Giroux: 25.97
Couturier: 14.93
Hayes: 14.28
Laughton: 12.01
Lindblom: 11.81
Raffl: 10.95
xGA
Laughton: 3.24
Giroux: 3.40
Raffl: 3.62
Lindblom: 6.13
Couturier: 7.93
Hayes: 8.49
xGA/60
Giroux: 5.1
Raffl: 5.47
Couturier: 6.58
Hayes: 6.6
Laughton: 6.73
Lindblom: 8.82
GA/60
Giroux: 1.50
Raffl: 3.02
Laughton: 4.15
Hayes: 5.44
Couturier: 7.46
Lindblom: 12.15
GF%
Giroux: 66.67 (2 goals for, 1 against)
Hayes: 12.50 (1 goals for, 7 against)
Laughton: 0.00 (0 goals for, 2 against)
Couturier: 0.00 (0 goals for, 9 against)
Lindblom: 0.00 (0 goals for, 9 against)
Laughton: 0.00 (0 goals for, 2 against)
It also appears as if Provorov, Niskanen, Braun, Laughton, Raffl, and Giroux all have better CF% and xGF% without Hayes than with him.
So it seems as if Hayes has been middle of the pack, at best, and Giroux is just a god. But Hayes has had some flashy moments while on the PK, so maybe that's what confuses some.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Haha no, definitely not. I’m too stupid for numbers.
It’s just interesting to see them, even though they can be misleading without context, since all they are is the end result. However that’s fine for this instance, because the end result being basically the same as last year shows that adding Hayes wasn’t the thing that led to this improvement. Same as showing that the results with Hayes on the ice aren’t what’s responsible for this year's PK success.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Seems to have been Hakstol's decision. They immediately got more aggressive when he was gone.
And he tanked Toronto's PK.
Well you see, only defensemen should be taking shots, so if you just passively wait and clog the front of the net, it's like having a 2nd goalie. Hakstol Recipe for Success
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Yep, but I'm willing to allow averageness that comes with some Herculean shifts. That is sadly still a big upgrade for the team. Perhaps it's only an upgrade because we don't have idiots making system and personnel decisions and Hayes happens to be in the right place at the right time, but I'll take it.
I mean, my bar is low. I'm still far from giving any truly negative damns about AV. I see flaws/errors and I can't manage to care yet because the net result is so far superior to what we've had inflicted on us.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Hayes here or denying that he's done well (for the most part) when shorthanded.
I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is to say that he "singlehandedly transformed the PK" because 1) it improved before he got here, and 2) he's not even our best PKer.
- Sep 28, 2014
- 76,629
- 123,138
Does any of this factor in QoC?
Pretty sure Hayes is on the first PK unit. Correct me if i'm wrong. Most teams have a big drop-off in talent and ability to execute from PP1 to PP2. Just a thought. I overall agree with your point that Hayes didnt single-handedly transform the PK. The biggest improvement is the structure/system. I think we can just leave it at "Hayes is a good PKer."
deadhead
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2014
- 49,215
- 21,617
The PK isn't better than past years, like everything else, it had a rough start last year.
The best PKs were when Kimmo, Pronger and Coburn were on the first defensive pair.
The other top PK was under Hakstol:
2016-17: xGA/60: 5.64; S% 84.18 - PEB, VdV, Couts, Simmonds, AMac, Provorov, Gudas, Manning, Mason/Neuvirth
Look at the "whipping boys" on that PK unit!
The best PKs were when Kimmo, Pronger and Coburn were on the first defensive pair.
The other top PK was under Hakstol:
2016-17: xGA/60: 5.64; S% 84.18 - PEB, VdV, Couts, Simmonds, AMac, Provorov, Gudas, Manning, Mason/Neuvirth
Look at the "whipping boys" on that PK unit!
Curufinwe
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2013
- 55,717
- 42,696
PK in 18-19 without Hak and Hayes
51 GP, PK% 82.2 (9th), 1 SHG
NHL.com Stats
PK in 19-20 with AV and Hayes
38 GP, PK% 83.0 (8th), 2 SHG
NHL.com Stats
51 GP, PK% 82.2 (9th), 1 SHG
NHL.com Stats
PK in 19-20 with AV and Hayes
38 GP, PK% 83.0 (8th), 2 SHG
NHL.com Stats
I don't know if CF% and xGF% are really useful stats to evaluate players PK ability. After all most important think for PK is not to allow goal so supression metrics should be the ones to evaluate PK ability.
Just a thought not related to Hayes or anybody else in general.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Yup. Like I said to Beef, the point wasn’t to say he isnt good at PKing, just that he’s not what fixed it and isn’t even our best.
As far as PK units go, I don’t think there’s really a distinct 1st or 2nd unit. Seems like he and Couts basically rotate, since they’re pretty close in icetime. Maybe I’m imagining things, but I feel like who starts the PK against the opponents top unit switches back and forth. Although it’s hard to call any PK unit without Couturier the 1st unit, kinda like any PP unit without Giroux on it is the 2nd unit.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Yeah, I just tossed out a bunch of information. Some is definitely more valuable than others.
kudymen
Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
Reading comprehension level - John Boruk.
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