ErnieLeafs
Registered User
- Apr 7, 2009
- 12,039
- 2,173
In a heart beat. We traded for Barrie, because management had no room to negotiate with Gardener. Besides Muzzin, who will protect Andersen? Come the trade deadline management will need to go after a shut down guy. The Blues look like a good fit for Barrie. They have what we need, and we have what they need.
Do people actually think the Leafs are in the trading UFA and stockpiling picks and prospects stage?What a great message that will send to this team. I'm sure they will understand the decision of stockpiling picks and trading away key players instead of competing for the Cup.
Do people actually think the Leafs are in the trading UFA and stockpiling picks and prospects stage?
No one is being traded away.Reilly-Trade
Muzzin-Sandin
Dermott-Ceci*
If Sandin is going to do what I think he can, Barrie can get moved at the deadline or before to fill in the "Trade" spot beside Reilly. U trade Barrie for a guy around 24-25 right shot who is a stay at home, win battles down low type. Sure Barrie is good but the Leafs and the asset management has been awful for 3 years. U must cash in for Barrie, if he doesnt fit long term, he cant be a rental. Ditto with Muzzin.
*Trade Ceci or slot him 3rd pair, but 4.5 is over paid for 3rd pairing minutes though.
Do people actually think the Leafs are in the trading UFA and stockpiling picks and prospects stage?
No one is being traded away.
There will be trades, but he's referring to one of the 3. I don't think that will happen.There are going to be some trades.
Because when people watch him play hockey they say look at that man go...But why?
yeah man, pietrangelo is coming home too.Hypothetically, we'll say Muzzin (31), will be looking for a longer term, bigger contract that Dubas won't be willing to shell out for a player of his age. Likewise, Barrie (29), while younger, will also want a contract carrying him into his mid 30s, with a pretty high cap-hit, and I doubt Dubas is interested in signing players to contracts like those. Historically, they just don't work out too well for teams.
I'm sure if either is willing to take a shorter/smaller contract to stay, Dubas will keep them. But let's just say they don't. I'm 100% certain Dermott will sign, and given that he'll be injured for 10-15 games this season, and has never been a huge offensive producer, he'll probably command a relatively low salary.
That still gives us Rielly, Dermott, & Sandin under contract, which honestly isn't a super bad group of top 4. With the leftover cap-space of both Barrie & Muzzin departing, it shouldn't be too difficult to find another top 4 defender, whether through a trade, or free agency. Beyond that, Liljegren should be ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season, and I expect that at least one of the likes of Marincin, Kivihalme, Harpur, Holl, etc, or even another Euro signing, could be a potential partner.
And that's assuming neither of them signs. Overall, I'm not too concerned about it. As long as Dubas continues his excellent work of finding good players on cheap contracts for depth, and not overpaying depth pieces, I don't think we'll have too many problems filling in around our core, even if it is overpaid.
Reilly-Trade
Muzzin-Sandin
Dermott-Ceci*
If Sandin is going to do what I think he can, Barrie can get moved at the deadline or before to fill in the "Trade" spot beside Reilly. U trade Barrie for a guy around 24-25 right shot who is a stay at home, win battles down low type. Sure Barrie is good but the Leafs and the asset management has been awful for 3 years. U must cash in for Barrie, if he doesnt fit long term, he cant be a rental. Ditto with Muzzin.
*Trade Ceci or slot him 3rd pair, but 4.5 is over paid for 3rd pairing minutes though.
That still gives us Rielly, Dermott, & Sandin under contract, which honestly isn't a super bad group of top 4. With the leftover cap-space of both Barrie & Muzzin departing, it shouldn't be too difficult to find another top 4 defender, whether through a trade, or free agency. Beyond that, Liljegren should be ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season, and I expect that at least one of the likes of Marincin, Kivihalme, Harpur, Holl, etc, or even another Euro signing, could be a potential partner.
I would need to see something from Barrie soon that would make me want to pay him anything! Maybe he doesn't take pre-season seriously,or maybe he is just trying to fit in,but I don't like it so far!Here's the problem... the Leafs have basically zero cap space with which to work this year.
That means, if they trade Tyson Barrie, the highest salary player coming back $2.75m. I'd go out on a limb and say that at $2.75m, Barrie is probably one of the best value defenceman in the league right now.
The reality is -- the blueline the Leafs have for this year is the one they're going to be stuck with. They'll be some shuffling of the deck, Sandin, Dermott, Ceci, Marincin all moving around. I wouldn't be suprised to see a guy like Ben Harpur or Jordan Schmaltz up at some point this season either. Toronto has a lot of bodies to be able to mix things up for the right fit, but not a lot of flexibility to bring somebody of high end talent in.
Rasmus Sandin has yet to play an NHL regular season game. It's extremely premature to "slot" him in as a top 4 defenceman on a team with cup aspirations next year. Dermott may prove this year to be a bonafide top-4 option, but thus far in his career, he's been more of a "fill in when needed" type guy.
As for Barrie & Muzzin. Barrie will command (and likely be able to achieve) a 7 year deal at $7m from a host of good teams seeking an elite puckmover.... maybe pushing $8m, depending on how those teams feel about his long term upside. To me, that's not a deal that the Leafs should be committing themselves to. Sure, he's right handed, but the Leafs already have Rielly, and a wealth of solid puckmoving defensive prospects.
Muzzin to me is the far more interesting case. The general consensus around the league has to be that giving him a 4+ year deal based on his age and style of play would be a decision they will regret down the road. A team may do it, because he IMO can be the missing piece on a lot of teams (whether it's leadership on a young team, or a phyiscal presence for a contending team), and adding years would be a way to reduce the AAV.
He's got a great situation here in Toronto with a team that is extremely well poised to contend over the next 3-4 years having all of their top players locked up... he's from the area. If he's looking at a 5 year deal at $5.5m elsewhere, it might just make sense to him to leave $5m on the table, get it all paid in bonus money, and get some trade protection to stay in Toronto.
That still gives us Rielly, Dermott, & Sandin under contract, which honestly isn't a super bad group of top 4. With the leftover cap-space of both Barrie & Muzzin departing, it shouldn't be too difficult to find another top 4 defender, whether through a trade, or free agency. Beyond that, Liljegren should be ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season, and I expect that at least one of the likes of Marincin, Kivihalme, Harpur, Holl, etc, or even another Euro signing, could be a potential partner.
That is fine. The Avs traded him because they knew he was going to be a AAV problem for an older player. Either Leafs trade him for a pick at TDL or he can find employment somewhere else next season. Personally I would rather have a 1st round pick in a very deep draft. After watching barrie's playoffs in full last year I do not think he will make much of an impact for us when it counts.What barrie gets from another team will not reflect on the amount he will want to stay HERE.
You get that yet?
There are other team salary expectations and then there is the Toronto Maple Leafs. If that hasn't been made evident to you by the fact that all of our talent is overpaid to some degree, then you are living with your head in the sand. To stay here, Barrie will want 9+.
And I still say that Barrie will get 9+ somewhere else as well.
Rasmus Sandin has yet to play an NHL regular season game. It's extremely premature to "slot" him in as a top 4 defenceman on a team with cup aspirations next year. Dermott may prove this year to be a bonafide top-4 option, but thus far in his career, he's been more of a "fill in when needed" type guy.
As for Barrie & Muzzin. Barrie will command (and likely be able to achieve) a 7 year deal at $7m from a host of good teams seeking an elite puckmover.... maybe pushing $8m, depending on how those teams feel about his long term upside. To me, that's not a deal that the Leafs should be committing themselves to. Sure, he's right handed, but the Leafs already have Rielly, and a wealth of solid puckmoving defensive prospects.
Muzzin to me is the far more interesting case. The general consensus around the league has to be that giving him a 4+ year deal based on his age and style of play would be a decision they will regret down the road. A team may do it, because he IMO can be the missing piece on a lot of teams (whether it's leadership on a young team, or a phyiscal presence for a contending team), and adding years would be a way to reduce the AAV.
He's got a great situation here in Toronto with a team that is extremely well poised to contend over the next 3-4 years having all of their top players locked up... he's from the area. If he's looking at a 5 year deal at $5.5m elsewhere, it might just make sense to him to leave $5m on the table, get it all paid in bonus money, and get some trade protection to stay in Toronto.
Then of course you have the expansion draft question... with 3 D to protect, Rielly will be one, Barrie or his replacement likely a 2nd. Sandin is exempt.... so giving Muzzin expansion draft protection may force the Leafs to expose Dermott... or you commit to making a side-deal with Seattle to allow you to keep all 4, and take a forward.
That is fine. The Avs traded him because they knew he was going to be a AAV problem for an older player. Either Leafs trade him for a pick at TDL or he can find employment somewhere else next season. Personally I would rather have a 1st round pick in a very deep draft. After watching barrie's playoffs in full last year I do not think he will make much of an impact for us when it counts.
Fair enough. It is totally premature to make assumptions on Sandin, but with his current trajectory, I'm extrapolating to guess he'll be a solid #3-4 next season. Babcock already has him pegged as a #5 defender, and obviously that it only after the pre-season, but what a pre-season showing it was!
Dermott, I don't agree with you on. He has excelled so, so much on a bottom pairing role, beyond the point of doubting that he is capable in a top four role. If not for the logjam of LD, and Babcock's reluctance to play him at his natural RD (because he's a left shot), this kid would've been playing top 4 minutes. His transitional abilities, gap control, skating, aggression, and confidence are incredible. I'm hoping to see him bump Ceci out of the top 4 sooner than later this season, because every statistical indication is that he is ready for that kind of role. Maybe I'm wrong...like you said, this season will be the litmus test.
The expansion draft is definitely going to be interesting...I think the Leafs would sooner let Muzzin walk then leave a couple forwards unprotected though.