Keeping Barrie/Defense Past This Season

[ErnieLeafs]

Andreas Johnsson

But why?

 

[Pocket Hercules]

In a heart beat. We traded for Barrie, because management had no room to negotiate with Gardener. Besides Muzzin, who will protect Andersen? Come the trade deadline management will need to go after a shut down guy. The Blues look like a good fit for Barrie. They have what we need, and we have what they need.

What a great message that will send to this team. I'm sure they will understand the decision of stockpiling picks and trading away key players instead of competing for the Cup.

 

[kb]

What a great message that will send to this team. I'm sure they will understand the decision of stockpiling picks and trading away key players instead of competing for the Cup.

Do people actually think the Leafs are in the trading UFA and stockpiling picks and prospects stage?

 

[mapleleaf979]

Reilly-Trade
Muzzin-Sandin
Dermott-Ceci*

If Sandin is going to do what I think he can, Barrie can get moved at the deadline or before to fill in the "Trade" spot beside Reilly. U trade Barrie for a guy around 24-25 right shot who is a stay at home, win battles down low type. Sure Barrie is good but the Leafs and the asset management has been awful for 3 years. U must cash in for Barrie, if he doesnt fit long term, he cant be a rental. Ditto with Muzzin.

*Trade Ceci or slot him 3rd pair, but 4.5 is over paid for 3rd pairing minutes though.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

Do people actually think the Leafs are in the trading UFA and stockpiling picks and prospects stage?

I guess so...Or maybe they think other competing teams will trade away their key roster players to us because....Leafs!

 

[kb]

Reilly-Trade
Muzzin-Sandin
Dermott-Ceci*

If Sandin is going to do what I think he can, Barrie can get moved at the deadline or before to fill in the "Trade" spot beside Reilly. U trade Barrie for a guy around 24-25 right shot who is a stay at home, win battles down low type. Sure Barrie is good but the Leafs and the asset management has been awful for 3 years. U must cash in for Barrie, if he doesnt fit long term, he cant be a rental. Ditto with Muzzin.

*Trade Ceci or slot him 3rd pair, but 4.5 is over paid for 3rd pairing minutes though.

No one is being traded away.

 

[Boutette]

Do people actually think the Leafs are in the trading UFA and stockpiling picks and prospects stage?

Some people are still stuck in the Burke/Nonis era.

 

[Boutette]

No one is being traded away.

There are going to be some trades.

 

[kb]

There are going to be some trades.

There will be trades, but he's referring to one of the 3. I don't think that will happen.

 

[Trapper]

But why?

Because when people watch him play hockey they say look at that man go...

 

[67Leafs67]

Hypothetically, we'll say Muzzin (31), will be looking for a longer term, bigger contract that Dubas won't be willing to shell out for a player of his age. Likewise, Barrie (29), while younger, will also want a contract carrying him into his mid 30s, with a pretty high cap-hit, and I doubt Dubas is interested in signing players to contracts like those. Historically, they just don't work out too well for teams.

I'm sure if either is willing to take a shorter/smaller contract to stay, Dubas will keep them. But let's just say they don't. I'm 100% certain Dermott will sign, and given that he'll be injured for 10-15 games this season, and has never been a huge offensive producer, he'll probably command a relatively low salary.

That still gives us Rielly, Dermott, & Sandin under contract, which honestly isn't a super bad group of top 4. With the leftover cap-space of both Barrie & Muzzin departing, it shouldn't be too difficult to find another top 4 defender, whether through a trade, or free agency. Beyond that, Liljegren should be ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season, and I expect that at least one of the likes of Marincin, Kivihalme, Harpur, Holl, etc, or even another Euro signing, could be a potential partner.

And that's assuming neither of them signs. Overall, I'm not too concerned about it. As long as Dubas continues his excellent work of finding good players on cheap contracts for depth, and not overpaying depth pieces, I don't think we'll have too many problems filling in around our core, even if it is overpaid.

 

[Jozay]

Hypothetically, we'll say Muzzin (31), will be looking for a longer term, bigger contract that Dubas won't be willing to shell out for a player of his age. Likewise, Barrie (29), while younger, will also want a contract carrying him into his mid 30s, with a pretty high cap-hit, and I doubt Dubas is interested in signing players to contracts like those. Historically, they just don't work out too well for teams.

I'm sure if either is willing to take a shorter/smaller contract to stay, Dubas will keep them. But let's just say they don't. I'm 100% certain Dermott will sign, and given that he'll be injured for 10-15 games this season, and has never been a huge offensive producer, he'll probably command a relatively low salary.

That still gives us Rielly, Dermott, & Sandin under contract, which honestly isn't a super bad group of top 4. With the leftover cap-space of both Barrie & Muzzin departing, it shouldn't be too difficult to find another top 4 defender, whether through a trade, or free agency. Beyond that, Liljegren should be ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season, and I expect that at least one of the likes of Marincin, Kivihalme, Harpur, Holl, etc, or even another Euro signing, could be a potential partner.

And that's assuming neither of them signs. Overall, I'm not too concerned about it. As long as Dubas continues his excellent work of finding good players on cheap contracts for depth, and not overpaying depth pieces, I don't think we'll have too many problems filling in around our core, even if it is overpaid.

yeah man, pietrangelo is coming home too.

 

[mulefarm]

Pietrangelo @ 9x7

 

[Pocket Hercules]

yeah man, pietrangelo is coming home too.

That would be SICK!

 

[Magic Man]

Make re-signing Barrie the back-up plan to signing Pietrangelo.

 

[seanlinden]

Reilly-Trade
Muzzin-Sandin
Dermott-Ceci*

If Sandin is going to do what I think he can, Barrie can get moved at the deadline or before to fill in the "Trade" spot beside Reilly. U trade Barrie for a guy around 24-25 right shot who is a stay at home, win battles down low type. Sure Barrie is good but the Leafs and the asset management has been awful for 3 years. U must cash in for Barrie, if he doesnt fit long term, he cant be a rental. Ditto with Muzzin.

*Trade Ceci or slot him 3rd pair, but 4.5 is over paid for 3rd pairing minutes though.

Here's the problem... the Leafs have basically zero cap space with which to work this year.

That means, if they trade Tyson Barrie, the highest salary player coming back $2.75m. I'd go out on a limb and say that at $2.75m, Barrie is probably one of the best value defenceman in the league right now.

The reality is -- the blueline the Leafs have for this year is the one they're going to be stuck with. They'll be some shuffling of the deck, Sandin, Dermott, Ceci, Marincin all moving around. I wouldn't be suprised to see a guy like Ben Harpur or Jordan Schmaltz up at some point this season either. Toronto has a lot of bodies to be able to mix things up for the right fit, but not a lot of flexibility to bring somebody of high end talent in.

That still gives us Rielly, Dermott, & Sandin under contract, which honestly isn't a super bad group of top 4. With the leftover cap-space of both Barrie & Muzzin departing, it shouldn't be too difficult to find another top 4 defender, whether through a trade, or free agency. Beyond that, Liljegren should be ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season, and I expect that at least one of the likes of Marincin, Kivihalme, Harpur, Holl, etc, or even another Euro signing, could be a potential partner.

Rasmus Sandin has yet to play an NHL regular season game. It's extremely premature to "slot" him in as a top 4 defenceman on a team with cup aspirations next year. Dermott may prove this year to be a bonafide top-4 option, but thus far in his career, he's been more of a "fill in when needed" type guy.

As for Barrie & Muzzin. Barrie will command (and likely be able to achieve) a 7 year deal at $7m from a host of good teams seeking an elite puckmover.... maybe pushing $8m, depending on how those teams feel about his long term upside. To me, that's not a deal that the Leafs should be committing themselves to. Sure, he's right handed, but the Leafs already have Rielly, and a wealth of solid puckmoving defensive prospects.

Muzzin to me is the far more interesting case. The general consensus around the league has to be that giving him a 4+ year deal based on his age and style of play would be a decision they will regret down the road. A team may do it, because he IMO can be the missing piece on a lot of teams (whether it's leadership on a young team, or a phyiscal presence for a contending team), and adding years would be a way to reduce the AAV.

He's got a great situation here in Toronto with a team that is extremely well poised to contend over the next 3-4 years having all of their top players locked up... he's from the area. If he's looking at a 5 year deal at $5.5m elsewhere, it might just make sense to him to leave $5m on the table, get it all paid in bonus money, and get some trade protection to stay in Toronto.

Then of course you have the expansion draft question... with 3 D to protect, Rielly will be one, Barrie or his replacement likely a 2nd. Sandin is exempt.... so giving Muzzin expansion draft protection may force the Leafs to expose Dermott... or you commit to making a side-deal with Seattle to allow you to keep all 4, and take a forward.

 

[hector morrison]

Here's the problem... the Leafs have basically zero cap space with which to work this year.

That means, if they trade Tyson Barrie, the highest salary player coming back $2.75m. I'd go out on a limb and say that at $2.75m, Barrie is probably one of the best value defenceman in the league right now.

The reality is -- the blueline the Leafs have for this year is the one they're going to be stuck with. They'll be some shuffling of the deck, Sandin, Dermott, Ceci, Marincin all moving around. I wouldn't be suprised to see a guy like Ben Harpur or Jordan Schmaltz up at some point this season either. Toronto has a lot of bodies to be able to mix things up for the right fit, but not a lot of flexibility to bring somebody of high end talent in.



Rasmus Sandin has yet to play an NHL regular season game. It's extremely premature to "slot" him in as a top 4 defenceman on a team with cup aspirations next year. Dermott may prove this year to be a bonafide top-4 option, but thus far in his career, he's been more of a "fill in when needed" type guy.

As for Barrie & Muzzin. Barrie will command (and likely be able to achieve) a 7 year deal at $7m from a host of good teams seeking an elite puckmover.... maybe pushing $8m, depending on how those teams feel about his long term upside. To me, that's not a deal that the Leafs should be committing themselves to. Sure, he's right handed, but the Leafs already have Rielly, and a wealth of solid puckmoving defensive prospects.

Muzzin to me is the far more interesting case. The general consensus around the league has to be that giving him a 4+ year deal based on his age and style of play would be a decision they will regret down the road. A team may do it, because he IMO can be the missing piece on a lot of teams (whether it's leadership on a young team, or a phyiscal presence for a contending team), and adding years would be a way to reduce the AAV.

He's got a great situation here in Toronto with a team that is extremely well poised to contend over the next 3-4 years having all of their top players locked up... he's from the area. If he's looking at a 5 year deal at $5.5m elsewhere, it might just make sense to him to leave $5m on the table, get it all paid in bonus money, and get some trade protection to stay in Toronto.

I would need to see something from Barrie soon that would make me want to pay him anything! Maybe he doesn't take pre-season seriously,or maybe he is just trying to fit in,but I don't like it so far!

 

[NightTrain1]

It honestly does feel as though a good number of people are still stuck inside of different former era's . Believe me though I absolutely get it because given all the media drama and contract negotiations and people being caught with their pants down, there hasnt been a whole lot of time to just sit back and breathe it all in.

We are now 52 years removed from the last Leafs Cup. I am 40 years into my own Leaf journey and it has been a non-stop wave of disappointment, anger, frustration, speculation sprinkled with little moments of hope. Basically it has been built into us to accept the inevitable failure of this club at every single level while watching our closest opponents succeed and win and have the thing we never could have. Every single year the conversation is about what we need to do for the next season.

People are so focused on the business side of things they are forgetting to just let go and enjoy what we finally have in front of us. This is nearly the team of our dreams right here in front of us, stacked from top to bottom with incredible skill and a mix of just about everything.

This team this year is built to win a cup and that is the ride we are supposed to be enjoying right now. Let next year happen next year

 

[Legion34]

Where would they go? I mean what teams really
Can fit Barrie in at 7.5 plus?

Anaheim? LA? Maybe Vancouver?
Islanders?

That’s about all I can see.

Next year.
Josi. Pietro. Vatanen. Brodie. Schultz. Hamonic. Barrie. Muzzin. Ceci

Are all available off the top of my head. Toronto will have about 10-15 million for 2 D

We will end up fine.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That still gives us Rielly, Dermott, & Sandin under contract, which honestly isn't a super bad group of top 4. With the leftover cap-space of both Barrie & Muzzin departing, it shouldn't be too difficult to find another top 4 defender, whether through a trade, or free agency. Beyond that, Liljegren should be ready for a 3rd pairing role by next season, and I expect that at least one of the likes of Marincin, Kivihalme, Harpur, Holl, etc, or even another Euro signing, could be a potential partner.

Exactly the way I see it. If Dermott/Sandin continue to develop the way they have been then we'll be just fine. And if they don't then we can always use our forward depth to make a trade if need be. Compared to the challenges we faced at the beginning of this off-season, next season looks to be much less of a challenge.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

What barrie gets from another team will not reflect on the amount he will want to stay HERE.

You get that yet?

There are other team salary expectations and then there is the Toronto Maple Leafs. If that hasn't been made evident to you by the fact that all of our talent is overpaid to some degree, then you are living with your head in the sand. To stay here, Barrie will want 9+.

And I still say that Barrie will get 9+ somewhere else as well.

That is fine. The Avs traded him because they knew he was going to be a AAV problem for an older player. Either Leafs trade him for a pick at TDL or he can find employment somewhere else next season. Personally I would rather have a 1st round pick in a very deep draft. After watching barrie's playoffs in full last year I do not think he will make much of an impact for us when it counts.

 

[67Leafs67]

Rasmus Sandin has yet to play an NHL regular season game. It's extremely premature to "slot" him in as a top 4 defenceman on a team with cup aspirations next year. Dermott may prove this year to be a bonafide top-4 option, but thus far in his career, he's been more of a "fill in when needed" type guy.

As for Barrie & Muzzin. Barrie will command (and likely be able to achieve) a 7 year deal at $7m from a host of good teams seeking an elite puckmover.... maybe pushing $8m, depending on how those teams feel about his long term upside. To me, that's not a deal that the Leafs should be committing themselves to. Sure, he's right handed, but the Leafs already have Rielly, and a wealth of solid puckmoving defensive prospects.

Muzzin to me is the far more interesting case. The general consensus around the league has to be that giving him a 4+ year deal based on his age and style of play would be a decision they will regret down the road. A team may do it, because he IMO can be the missing piece on a lot of teams (whether it's leadership on a young team, or a phyiscal presence for a contending team), and adding years would be a way to reduce the AAV.

He's got a great situation here in Toronto with a team that is extremely well poised to contend over the next 3-4 years having all of their top players locked up... he's from the area. If he's looking at a 5 year deal at $5.5m elsewhere, it might just make sense to him to leave $5m on the table, get it all paid in bonus money, and get some trade protection to stay in Toronto.

Then of course you have the expansion draft question... with 3 D to protect, Rielly will be one, Barrie or his replacement likely a 2nd. Sandin is exempt.... so giving Muzzin expansion draft protection may force the Leafs to expose Dermott... or you commit to making a side-deal with Seattle to allow you to keep all 4, and take a forward.

Fair enough. It is totally premature to make assumptions on Sandin, but with his current trajectory, I'm extrapolating to guess he'll be a solid #3-4 next season. Babcock already has him pegged as a #5 defender, and obviously that it only after the pre-season, but what a pre-season showing it was!

Dermott, I don't agree with you on. He has excelled so, so much on a bottom pairing role, beyond the point of doubting that he is capable in a top four role. If not for the logjam of LD, and Babcock's reluctance to play him at his natural RD (because he's a left shot), this kid would've been playing top 4 minutes. His transitional abilities, gap control, skating, aggression, and confidence are incredible. I'm hoping to see him bump Ceci out of the top 4 sooner than later this season, because every statistical indication is that he is ready for that kind of role. Maybe I'm wrong...like you said, this season will be the litmus test.

The expansion draft is definitely going to be interesting...I think the Leafs would sooner let Muzzin walk then leave a couple forwards unprotected though.

 

[IPS]

That is fine. The Avs traded him because they knew he was going to be a AAV problem for an older player. Either Leafs trade him for a pick at TDL or he can find employment somewhere else next season. Personally I would rather have a 1st round pick in a very deep draft. After watching barrie's playoffs in full last year I do not think he will make much of an impact for us when it counts.

You're usually decent at player analysis but I have no idea where you went with this one.

There's a damn good reason Barrie led TOI for the Avs by as much as he did in the playoffs.

 

[Hustlr]

Riles - stopgap again (Ceci?)
Muzzin - Sandin
Dermott - Liljegren

Seems easy. Barrie is not what we need more of imo and would come at a cost. Who doesn’t love Muzzin? He’s crushing it

 

[seanlinden]

Fair enough. It is totally premature to make assumptions on Sandin, but with his current trajectory, I'm extrapolating to guess he'll be a solid #3-4 next season. Babcock already has him pegged as a #5 defender, and obviously that it only after the pre-season, but what a pre-season showing it was!

Dermott, I don't agree with you on. He has excelled so, so much on a bottom pairing role, beyond the point of doubting that he is capable in a top four role. If not for the logjam of LD, and Babcock's reluctance to play him at his natural RD (because he's a left shot), this kid would've been playing top 4 minutes. His transitional abilities, gap control, skating, aggression, and confidence are incredible. I'm hoping to see him bump Ceci out of the top 4 sooner than later this season, because every statistical indication is that he is ready for that kind of role. Maybe I'm wrong...like you said, this season will be the litmus test.

The expansion draft is definitely going to be interesting...I think the Leafs would sooner let Muzzin walk then leave a couple forwards unprotected though.

That's a lot of extrapolation... there's a pretty big jump between a guy showing up in the preseason and looking like a #5, to playing the role of a #5 all season long.

As for the expansion draft, I was alluding the notion that Muzzin may seek expansion draft protection in his next deal (especially if he's going to take a discount to stay with the Leafs). He could very well negotiate a deal that has a NMC only in 2021 to ensure that he must be protected, or go on a handshake agreement with Dubas that Dubas will give Seattle something to not take him. Limiting protection of forwards to only 5 doesn't make a lot of sense IMO.