Karlsson vs Trade 'Haul' Stat Comparison Thread

[SensFactor]

Josh Norris, 8pts in 5 games in Michigan

 

[swiftwin]

be positive about chabot,batherson, tkachuk. we have things to genuinely feel positive about.

dont try to conjure positives from them forcing karlsson out.

we should be watching Karlsson and Chabot become the best 1-2 punch in the league. we were all robbed to serve the desires of melnyk.

So I'm allowed to be positive about Chabot, Batherson, and Tkachuk, but I'm not allowed to be positive about Tierney and DeMelo?

edit: Also, stop acting like a clingy ex. Karlsson is gone. Move the f*** on. There's no reason you should deprive yourself of positives just because you don't like the underlying reason he was traded. Our PP for example, is much much better.

 

[swiftwin]

Josh Norris, 8pts in 5 games in Michigan

Why do you hate Karlsson



/s

 

[swiftwin]

Truth By Numbers: Is Erik Karlsson really struggling in San Jose? - Sportsnet.ca

THE QUESTION

In this section every week Steve Dangle is going to have a question he wants answered:
Is Erik Karlsson proof the west-coast mute button is real because I’ve heard so little. All I’ve heard is he hasn’t been up to his standard. What do the early numbers actually say?
Karlsson has been killed by on-ice percentages this season, with the 15th-worst PDO in the league among players with 50 or more minutes played at 5-on-5. The Sharks are scoring on just 4.17 per cent of their shots while he’s on the ice, and getting scored on 15.1 per cent of the shots they give up, per Corsica. Does shot quality have something to do with it?

Unsurprisingly, no, it’s just bad luck to start the year. Karlsson is absolutely crushing it so far in San Jose in the underlying numbers, ranking fifth overall among defencemen in shot attempt differential, 16th in shots on goal differential, 41st in high danger chances differential, 23rd in slot pass differential, and 18th in the highest percentage of rebounds recovered in his own zone.

See? This is a little bit more reasonable than strictly using CF%.

 

[Samsquanch]

Truth By Numbers: Is Erik Karlsson really struggling in San Jose? - Sportsnet.ca

THE QUESTION

In this section every week Steve Dangle is going to have a question he wants answered:
Is Erik Karlsson proof the west-coast mute button is real because I’ve heard so little. All I’ve heard is he hasn’t been up to his standard. What do the early numbers actually say?
Karlsson has been killed by on-ice percentages this season, with the 15th-worst PDO in the league among players with 50 or more minutes played at 5-on-5. The Sharks are scoring on just 4.17 per cent of their shots while he’s on the ice, and getting scored on 15.1 per cent of the shots they give up, per Corsica. Does shot quality have something to do with it?

Unsurprisingly, no, it’s just bad luck to start the year. Karlsson is absolutely crushing it so far in San Jose in the underlying numbers, ranking fifth overall among defencemen in shot attempt differential, 16th in shots on goal differential, 41st in high danger chances differential, 23rd in slot pass differential, and 18th in the highest percentage of rebounds recovered in his own zone.

Truth by numbers being the real key here... fluff numbers can tell you anything that you want if your determined to get a conclusion that fits your narrative.

Ive watched most of SJ's games this year, and you really have to take a bit of a leap to say that Karlsson has been "crushing it this year". This is exactly why advanced stats fail miserably imo..

By no means has he been atrocious or a determent to his team, like a -10 would normally suggest. The guy plays 25-30 minutes a night, and mistakes are to be expected.

But to say he's been "crushing it" is utterly false imo. Hes clearly adjusting to the new team and system, and playing very tentatively. He's just not playing like the world class Karlsson we know and have seen in the past.

Hes also a notorious slow starter, so I dont know why people are desperately trying to cover up what is plain as day; he's still in adjustment mode and not making a real big impact yet.

Surely it will come at some point for him.

 

[swiftwin]

Truth by numbers being the real key here... fluff numbers can tell you anything that you want if your determined to get a conclusion that fits your narrative.

Ive watched most of SJ's games this year, and you really have to take a bit of a leap to say that Karlsson has been "crushing it this year". This is exactly why advanced stats fail miserably imo..

By no means has he been atrocious or a determent to his team. The guy plays 25-30 minutes a night, and mistakes are to be expected.

But to say he's been "crushing it" is utterly false imo. Hes clearly adjusting to the new team and system, and playing very tentatively. He's just not playing like the world class Karlsson we know and have seen in the past.

Hes also a notorious slow starter, so I dont know why people are desperately trying to cover up what is plain as day; he's still in adjustment mode and not making a real big impact yet.

Surely it will come at some point for him.

Spot on.

 

[Sensung]

See? This is a little bit more reasonable than strictly using CF%.

I didn't just use CF% in any post. Please pay more attention.

What is 6x12?

 

[L'Aveuglette]

be positive about chabot,batherson, tkachuk. we have things to genuinely feel positive about.

dont try to conjure positives from them forcing karlsson out.

we should be watching Karlsson and Chabot become the best 1-2 punch in the league. we were all robbed to serve the desires of melnyk.

Truth.

Trying to twist it as us benefiting from EK's departure is disingenuous at best.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Spot on.

Lol that isn't what you've been saying at all.

 

[swiftwin]

I didn't just use CF% in any post. Please pay more attention.

What is 6x12?

You just used CF% it's derivatives. Do you think they're all the same, or do you actually think they're different?

Also, you still haven't answered my question. What is 82/6 (ie. 1/6th of the season)? I even gave you the answer earlier, it's really not difficult.

 

[Samsquanch]

Truth.

Trying to twist it as us benefiting from EK's departure is disingenuous at best.

I dont think so. Its a question that is impossible to answer anyways, but Im the boat that Chabot is and will be a better player not playing in the shadow of Karlsson for his entire career.

If Karlsson could come back next year, Im all over that idea like white on rice. But I do believe that above all else, Chabot, his development, and his potential have all greatly benefited by getting this opportunity.

 

[swiftwin]

Lol that isn't what you've been saying at all.

Really? Have you been following this thread? You're so busy arguing with me that you don't even know what you're arguing against. You guys are unbearable.

 

[Sensung]

You just used CF% it's derivatives. Do you think they're all the same, or do you actually think they're different?

Also, you still haven't answered my question. What is 82/6 (ie. 1/6th of the season)? I even gave you the answer earlier, it's really not difficult.

Ottawa
PDO 102.1 7th in NHL
Shooting % 11.8 5th in NHL

San Jose
PDO 89.4 24th in NHL
Shooting % 8.5 24th in NHL

His PDO is 91.2 worst on the team.

You are the one who claimed I only mentioned CF.

Wrong

You are the one who claimed 6x12 = 82

Wrong

You are the one who claimed Ceci was an UFA and Dzingle was a RFA.

Wrong

Does it ever tire you out being wrong all the time?





​

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I dont think so. Its a question that is impossible to answer anyways, but Im the boat that Chabot is and will be a better player not playing in the shadow of Karlsson for his entire career.

If Karlsson could come back next year, Im all over that idea like white on rice. But I do believe that above all else, Chabot, his development, and his potential have all greatly benefited by getting this opportunity.

Couldn't agree more

 

[SensFactor]

Why do you hate Karlsson

I don't hate Karlsson. I just think it was time for us to move on from him. His defensive game was never something I liked. For a captain and the minute king on our team, I thought he was a liability defensively after methot left especially in tight games. His offense is what I miss, but for 11 mill a season, for the next 8 years, on a leg that had 2 major surgeries and for a player soon to be entering his 30s, I don't think it would have been ideal for us.

 

[swiftwin]

Ottawa
PDO 102.1 7th in NHL
Shooting % 11.8 5th in NHL

San Jose
PDO 89.4 24th in NHL
Shooting % 8.5 24th in NHL

His PDO is 91.2 worst on the team.

You are the one who claimed I only mentioned CF.

Wrong

You are the one who claimed 6x12 = 82

Wrong

You are the one who claimed Ceci was an UFA and Dzingle was a RFA.

Wrong

Does it ever tire you out being wrong all the time?





​

That's cute. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

btw, what's 82/6?

 

[Sensung]

That's cute. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

btw, what's 82/6?

Do you realize the implication of claiming 12 games is 1/6 of the season?

Perhaps this equation can help...

6x12=?

 

[swiftwin]

I don't hate Karlsson. I just think it was time for us to move on from him. His defensive game was never something I liked. For a captain and the minute king on our team, I thought he was a liability defensively after methot left especially in tight games. His offense is what I miss, but for 11 mill a season, for the next 8 years, on a leg that had 2 major surgeries and for a player soon to be entering his 30s, I don't think it would have been ideal for us.

It was joke, sorry. I was poking fun at a few people in this thread who claim we're not allowed to be happy about anything we got in return for Karlsson. Sorry for roping you into this.

 

[swiftwin]

Do you realize the implication of claiming 12 games is 1/6 of the season?

Perhaps this equation can help...

6x12=?

San Jose is at 13 games.

This formula will give you the exact number of 1/6th of the season.
82/6 = CLICK HERE TO FIND THE ANSWER

Spoiler

Since you now know that 1/6 of the season is 13.666 games, you can safely say that they're at the 1/6th mark of the season, since with their next game, they will move past the 1/6th mark of the season! Wow! That wasn't so difficult, was it?

 

[Sensung]

San Jose is at 13 games.

This formula will give you the exact number of 1/6th of the season.
82/6 = CLICK HERE TO FIND THE ANSWER

Spoiler

Since you now know that 1/6 of the season is 13.666 games, you can safely say that they're at the 1/6th mark of the season, since with their next game, they will move past the 1/6th mark of the season! Wow! That wasn't so difficult, was it?

The Sens have played 12 games.

6x12= 72

Sorry champ.

Is PDO a corsi derivative?
How about shooting %?

Just add it to the pile of errors.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Well, if we're going to cut EK some slack for being a slow starter and going through an adjustment period, then surely we should be heaping praise on Tierney and DeMelo who are both going through a similar situation but are performing the same or better on their new team, without being known superstars.

EK wasn't squeezed out, and I see no reason to feel bad for the guy, he's doing just fine. This really is the jilted ex club in here, creepy super EK fan thread.

Personally I think Sens fans should revel in how well all of the pieces we got back in that trade are doing, I mean we're fans of the Ottawa Senators right? Not the Ottawa Karlsson's. The team playing well and being enjoyable to watch due in part to two of the guys we got back in the EK trade is a good thing right? Much better than trying to satisfy an incessant need to slam management.

The truth is that the trade is looking pretty awesome from an Ottawa stan point right now. That could change for sure, and it certainly helps that EK isn't playing up to standard (though he wasn't good last year so this could be a troubling development), but each player that we got back is playing very well in their respective leagues right now, each one is looking like a guy who could make a positive impact on the roster.

I lost my interest in EK over the course of last year as I watched him half-ass his way through the season as the captain. The fact that he was a central part of the locker room drama made it fine with me that he was moved. I could not be happier by how this trade is panning out for our team at this moment, and we still have some high picks to use to make it even better.

Go Sens!

 

[Sensung]

Well, if we're going to cut EK some slack for being a slow starter and going through an adjustment period, then surely we should be heaping praise on Tierney and DeMelo who are both going through a similar situation but are performing the same or better on their new team, without being known superstars.

EK wasn't squeezed out, and I see no reason to feel bad for the guy, he's doing just fine. This really is the jilted ex club in here, creepy super EK fan thread.

Personally I think Sens fans should revel in how well all of the pieces we got back in that trade are doing, I mean we're fans of the Ottawa Senators right? Not the Ottawa Karlsson's. The team playing well and being enjoyable to watch due in part to two of the guys we got back in the EK trade is a good thing right? Much better than trying to satisfy an incessant need to slam management.

The truth is that the trade is looking pretty awesome from an Ottawa stan point right now. That could change for sure, and it certainly helps that EK isn't playing up to standard (though he wasn't good last year so this could be a troubling development), but each player that we got back is playing very well in their respective leagues right now, each one is looking like a guy who could make a positive impact on the roster.

I lost my interest in EK over the course of last year as I watched him half-ass his way through the season as the captain. The fact that he was a central part of the locker room drama made it fine with me that he was moved. I could not be happier by how this trade is panning out for our team at this moment, and we still have some high picks to use to make it even better.

Go Sens!

The Sens had a generational Dman.

Now we don't.

Thanks Eugene!

 

[CorrectOpinion]

The Sens had a generational Dman.

Now we don't.

Thanks Eugene!

At least we still have a generational fanbase.

 

[Runback]

Well, if we're going to cut EK some slack for being a slow starter and going through an adjustment period, then surely we should be heaping praise on Tierney and DeMelo who are both going through a similar situation but are performing the same or better on their new team, without being known superstars.

EK wasn't squeezed out, and I see no reason to feel bad for the guy, he's doing just fine. This really is the jilted ex club in here, creepy super EK fan thread.

Personally I think Sens fans should revel in how well all of the pieces we got back in that trade are doing, I mean we're fans of the Ottawa Senators right? Not the Ottawa Karlsson's. The team playing well and being enjoyable to watch due in part to two of the guys we got back in the EK trade is a good thing right? Much better than trying to satisfy an incessant need to slam management.

The truth is that the trade is looking pretty awesome from an Ottawa stan point right now. That could change for sure, and it certainly helps that EK isn't playing up to standard (though he wasn't good last year so this could be a troubling development), but each player that we got back is playing very well in their respective leagues right now, each one is looking like a guy who could make a positive impact on the roster.

I lost my interest in EK over the course of last year as I watched him half-ass his way through the season as the captain. The fact that he was a central part of the locker room drama made it fine with me that he was moved. I could not be happier by how this trade is panning out for our team at this moment, and we still have some high picks to use to make it even better.

Go Sens!

Totally agree. I was really hoping they would trade him and things are working out even better than I could have expected. So kudos to PD. I do think Karlsson will eventually get his points but will always be a disinterested train wreck in his own zone. He might still be a generational offenseman, although within the same generation Chabot is already putting up the same numbers with better D zone work. So maybe not.

 

[JD1]

I think there are a few positives so far regardless of looking at stats

our PP looks much better. personally I don't think it is a pure system thing, I think it is also a personnel thing. The boys are moving the puck around well and everyone is touching it. That wasn't happening the past few years.

I also think we're getting to see some guys really stepping into their own that we otherwise may not have seen.

I guess this argument is going to go on for a long time.