Karlsson vs Trade 'Haul' Stat Comparison Thread

[BankStreetParade]

Yep, because a 12 game sample > Many years of elite performance

Gimme a break. He hasn't dropped off a cliff magically. He'll get going soon enough and these hot takes will all look silly.

I think the idea is if you're going to pay a guy $11+ million/yr then you kind of need him going all the time rather than waiting for him to "get going soon enough".

 

[swiftwin]

Can't wait for next season with Alfie ownership.

Dzingel - Duchene - White
Tkachuk - Tierney - Stone
Formenton - Chlapik - Batherson
Boedker - Pageau - Ryan
Paul

Chabot - Karlsson
Lajoie - DeMelo
Wolanin - Jaros
Wideman.

Anderson
Gus

You forgot Jack Hughes, which we're obviously going to win with San Jose's pick.

 

[Sensung]

Ottawa
PDO 102.1 7th in NHL
Shooting % 11.8 5th in NHL
CF% 42.1 30th in NHL
FF% 42.8 30th in NHL

San Jose
PDO 89.4 24th in NHL
Shooting % 8.5 24th in NHL
CF% 57.3 3rd in NHL
FF% 57.1 3rd in NHL

Both teams records are unsustainable.

Let’s revisit this thread at the mid and end point of the season for a more accurate view.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

The only thing that's sustainable are those CF% & FF% numbers for both teams lol.

 

[Micklebot]

I think the idea is if you're going to pay a guy $11+ million/yr then you kind of need him going all the time rather than waiting for him to "get going soon enough".

Nobody is paying him 11 mil yet, and people are just willing to recognize that it can take some time to adjust to new systems and develop chemistry. I mean, you don't want to trade Duchene now because it took him 20 games to start putting up any points after he was traded, do you?

 

[swiftwin]

Ottawa
PDO 102.1 7th in NHL
Shooting % 11.8 5th in NHL
CF% 42.1 30th in NHL
FF% 42.8 30th in NHL

San Jose
PDO 89.4 24th in NHL
Shooting % 8.5 24th in NHL
CF% 57.3 3rd in NHL
FF% 57.1 3rd in NHL

Both teams records are unsustainable.

Let’s revisit this thread at the mid and end point of the season for a more accurate view.

CF% in isolation is a dumb stat. Dumber than +/-. FF% is no better.

Also, we're already more than a quarter of the way to the mid point of the season.

 

[aragorn]

I don't miss him, the team seems like they are playing well without him & they are much more fun to watch this yr. Of course, it's a long season & lots can happen & they could stink again as they did last yr with EK in the lineup, but until then I'm enjoying watching them play again.

Now if we could get rid of GB.

 

[swiftwin]

Also, I know +/- doesn't have a ton of meaning, but I'm not sure how anyone can look at this and say "Yup... this is fine...":

 

[BankStreetParade]

Nobody is paying him 11 mil yet, and people are just willing to recognize that it can take some time to adjust to new systems and develop chemistry. I mean, you don't want to trade Duchene now because it took him 20 games to start putting up any points after he was traded, do you?

No, but I also don't expect that he'll be getting an 8-figure AAV either. Guys who get paid that kind of money need to be dominant virtually all of the time. I can see a game here and there where they aren't at their best, happens to everyone. But for a 13-game stretch to produce the kind of results we've seen so far? It's hardly inspiring to people who are thinking of writing those cheques.

With that said, I'm reasonably confident he'll turn it around and go back to his old performance figures and even if he doesn't there will undoubtedly be someone willing to give him something in the neighborhood of 11+ million/yr.

But how would you feel about a small market team signing a guy to that kind of contract if you're getting more of the 0.5 ppg guy vs the nearly 1.00 ppg guy?

 

[Sensung]

I don't miss him, the team seems like they are playing well without him & they are much more fun to watch this yr. Of course, it's a long season & lots can happen & they could stink again as they did last yr with EK in the lineup, but until then I'm enjoying watching them play again.

Now if we could get rid of GB.

Team is NOT playing well

Ottawa
PDO 102.1 7th in NHL
Shooting % 11.8 5th in NHL
CF% 42.1 30th in NHL
FF% 42.8 30th in NHL

 

[Sensung]

CF% in isolation is a dumb stat. Dumber than +/-. FF% is no better.

Also, we're already more than a quarter of the way to the mid point of the season.

Not sure which statement is more ridiculous.
The stats weren’t quoted in isolation.

A quarter of the mid point...it’s 10 games. Trying to spin it as more is just silly.

 

[swiftwin]

Not sure which statement is more ridiculous.
The stats weren’t quoted in isolation.

A quarter of the mid point...it’s 10 games. Trying to spin it as more is just silly.

12-13 games, precisely. It's actually a third of the way to the half way point of the season (13.666 games). Or 1/6th of the entire season has already been played.

Besides, again, CF% doesn't mean jack shit. Washington was 24th last season, and they still won the cup. Pittsburgh was 16th the year before that. Also, the 1st place CF% team missed the playoffs those two seasons. You're just plain wrong.

 

[aragorn]

Team is NOT playing well

Ottawa
PDO 102.1 7th in NHL
Shooting % 11.8 5th in NHL
CF% 42.1 30th in NHL
FF% 42.8 30th in NHL

Much more fun to watch than they were last yr with EK in the lineup & they are doing better than most thought they would including given all the injuries they have had so far in this early part of the season. They played well last night for at least one & a half periods & hung on to win but I would blame GB more for trying to rein them back as he has a knack of doing than letting them go out & try & pour it on.

Those stats are useless this early in the season, the eye test tells me all I need to know although in some games they have sucked but I expect that from a young team. They look to be trending upwards to me, they are fun to watch & the young players are also exciting to watch. Everything about this team is better than last yr IMO & if they can get rid of a few more UFAs before the season ends this yr & replace them with more young guys they should continue to peak my interest & fun to watch. Once they get Tkachuk back & if they can find a way to insert Brown, Batherson & Chlapik into the lineup I look forward to seeing them play in Ottawa soon too.

 

[DJB]

Way too early to proclaim we are winning this trade.

 

[Sensung]

Also, I know +/- doesn't have a ton of meaning, but I'm not sure how anyone can look at this and say "Yup... this is fine...":
View attachment 151501

Karlsson is at 60.2 CF%. Good for 6th on the Sharks
CFrel is 3.7 5th on the Sharks
His PDO is 91.2 worst on the team.

Feel free to hang your hat on +/- though.

 

[swiftwin]

Karlsson is at 60.2 CF%. Good for 6th on the Sharks
CFrel is 3.7 5th on the Sharks
His PDO is 91.2 worst on the team.

Feel free to hang your hat on +/- though.

Feel free to hang your hat on CF% and it's derivatives....

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Feel free to hang your hat on CF% and it's derivatives....

Lol at least that stat has substance unlike your +/- stat.


And lol at "I don't miss him because this year is more fun than last year". Yeah let's ignore the other fun moments he provided to us and keep throwing him under the bus showing no respect like he was some scrub. Give me the playoffs run from 2 seasons ago than this 5-5-2 mediocre run.

I am sure y'all will be singing the same tune when Chabot and Tkachuk are traded 8 years from now because EUGENES kids can't afford them with the "they were never good to begin with" takes.

Hang your head in shame tsk tsk tsk.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Much more fun to watch than they were last yr with EK in the lineup & they are doing better than most thought they would including given all the injuries they have had so far in this early part of the season. They played well last night for at least one & a half periods & hung on to win but I would blame GB more for trying to rein them back as he has a knack of doing than letting them go out & try & pour it on.

Those stats are useless this early in the season, the eye test tells me all I need to know although in some games they have sucked but I expect that from a young team. They look to be trending upwards to me, they are fun to watch & the young players are also exciting to watch. Everything about this team is better than last yr IMO & if they can get rid of a few more UFAs before the season ends this yr & replace them with more young guys they should continue to peak my interest & fun to watch. Once they get Tkachuk back & if they can find a way to insert Brown, Batherson & Chlapik into the lineup I look forward to seeing them play in Ottawa soon too.

This team is going to get pummeled into submission by allowing 40+ shots most nights as Andy's knees and groin are destroyed and he can't hold the fort anymore. So far his play is masking our glaring inefficiencies on defense

But ok, we're more "fun" because Boucher loosened up with the system. That has nothing to do with EK, and I'm pretty damn sure under this new offensively minded mentality, and with the influx of youth, that he'd be flourishing right now and we wouldn't be next to dead last in shots against in the NHL.

But keep trying to portray whatever positives you see as a result of EK's departure. You're just showing your bias.

 

[swiftwin]

Lol at least that stat has substance unlike your +/- stat.

It has no more substance than +/-. Why do you say +/- is mine? I said specifically, and I quote "+/- doesn't have a ton of meaning"

And lol at "I don't miss him because this year is more fun than last year". Yeah let's ignore the other fun moments he provided to us and keep throwing him under the bus showing no respect like he was some scrub. Give me the playoffs run from 2 seasons ago than this 5-5-2 mediocre run.

Not sure who you're referring to, but it's not me because I've never said any of those things.

I am sure y'all will be singing the same tune when Chabot and Tkachuk are traded 8 years from now because EUGENES kids can't afford them with the "they were never good to begin with" takes.

Hang your head in shame tsk tsk tsk.

I want Eugene gone as much as anyone else. See my avatar?

 

[swiftwin]

But keep trying to portray whatever positives you see as a result of EK's departure. You're just showing your bias.

Looking for positives in the EK trade is a bad thing? I guess it goes against the hfsens mantra of NO POSITIVITY ALLOWED.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

So if you don't believe in the stat then why are you backing it up and posting it. Oh I know, only when it fits your agenda, and you dismiss stats when they don't fit your agenda.

Suuurreee you do. Continue the Karlsson crusade Steve Warne.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Looking for positives in the EK trade is a bad thing? I guess it goes against the hfsens mantra of NO POSITIVITY ALLOWED.

Says the guy that's providing that "positivity" by providing "negativity" towards the former captain and the teams franchise player cherry picking short term stats to fit in his hatred for another player.

Sure be happy about the players we received but the way you are doing as if these 12 game samples are the new norm and Chris Tierney will continue on a ppg pace and Karlsson will end up being an anchor for San Jose.

 

[swiftwin]

So if you don't believe in the stat then why are you backing it up

I'm not. I'm doing the exact opposite. I specifically said "+/- doesn't have a ton of meaning".

Surely you're trolling now.

 

[Sensung]

Truth By Numbers: Is Erik Karlsson really struggling in San Jose? - Sportsnet.ca

THE QUESTION

In this section every week Steve Dangle is going to have a question he wants answered:
Is Erik Karlsson proof the west-coast mute button is real because I’ve heard so little. All I’ve heard is he hasn’t been up to his standard. What do the early numbers actually say?
Karlsson has been killed by on-ice percentages this season, with the 15th-worst PDO in the league among players with 50 or more minutes played at 5-on-5. The Sharks are scoring on just 4.17 per cent of their shots while he’s on the ice, and getting scored on 15.1 per cent of the shots they give up, per Corsica. Does shot quality have something to do with it?

Unsurprisingly, no, it’s just bad luck to start the year. Karlsson is absolutely crushing it so far in San Jose in the underlying numbers, ranking fifth overall among defencemen in shot attempt differential, 16th in shots on goal differential, 41st in high danger chances differential, 23rd in slot pass differential, and 18th in the highest percentage of rebounds recovered in his own zone.

 

[Agent Zub]

Looking for positives in the EK trade is a bad thing? I guess it goes against the hfsens mantra of NO POSITIVITY ALLOWED.

be positive about chabot,batherson, tkachuk. we have things to genuinely feel positive about.

dont try to conjure positives from them forcing karlsson out.

we should be watching Karlsson and Chabot become the best 1-2 punch in the league. we were all robbed to serve the desires of melnyk.