Speculation: KARLSSON Megathread | Part III | MOD Warning Edition

[JungleBeat]

SY started with 2 HoF calibre playes that he had nothing to do with. He drafted Kucherov. He hasn't won yet. Relative to other GMs this decade with that kind of hand to this point he's been a failure. he's got a few years left to pull a cup or two out of that roster and I think he will. Should he not it'd be hard to assess his time there as anything other than a **** up.

I’ll take that failure on the Sens any day of the week. I wonder what you think about Murray.

Funny, take Stamkos away from the Lighting and I’ll still take that roster over the Sens any day of the week.

 

[Adrianopolous]

I really don't think so. We got essentially the same value-wise as what SJ got for him.

If we acted sooner I think we would have done better. Can't say how much better, it would have been better than what we got.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

look I'm not making any excuses. I am simply telling you what the data says.

you seem to want to ignore what I've identified in favour of your interest in pointing out PD's failings.

SY started with 2 HoF calibre playes that he had nothing to do with. He drafted Kucherov. He hasn't won yet. Relative to other GMs this decade with that kind of hand to this point he's been a failure. he's got a few years left to pull a cup or two out of that roster and I think he will. Should he not it'd be hard to assess his time there as anything other than a **** up.

I agree with the sentiment.

I don't know that it is a failure but Tampa has had everything they need for a while now but they always come up short. The pressure on SY is real, especially with that unceremonious playoff exit this year (although those are quickly forgotten)

 

[jbeck5]

I promised myself I wouldn't spend every day of the summer worrying about karlsson...so I'm here checking in...what's going on? Is he being shopped? Is he thinking of staying here long term?

 

[Six Assets]

I promised myself I wouldn't spend every day of the summer worrying about karlsson...so I'm here checking in...what's going on? Is he being shopped? Is he thinking of staying here long term?

quietest it has ever been

 

[slamigo]

I promised myself I wouldn't spend every day of the summer worrying about karlsson...so I'm here checking in...what's going on? Is he being shopped? Is he thinking of staying here long term?

Replace Tony with Karlsson.

 

[Micklebot]

look I'm not making any excuses. I am simply telling you what the data says.

you seem to want to ignore what I've identified in favour of your interest in pointing out PD's failings.

SY started with 2 HoF calibre playes that he had nothing to do with. He drafted Kucherov. He hasn't won yet. Relative to other GMs this decade with that kind of hand to this point he's been a failure. he's got a few years left to pull a cup or two out of that roster and I think he will. Should he not it'd be hard to assess his time there as anything other than a **** up.

He took over a team them missed the playoffs 3 years in a row and since has been to the finals once and third round 3 more times in his 8 years as GM. You have a pretty high standard if that's failure.

Other teams had good players too, Detroit had kids from, datsyuk and Zetterberg, Philly had Giroux pronger Carter Richards Briere, Vancouver had the Sedins and Luongo, Sharks had Thornton Marleau, Heatley ect. It's easy to say he had a head start when you don't look at what other teams had too, and I'm not even a big believer in yzerman.

 

[Ice-Tray]

He took over a team them missed the playoffs 3 years in a row and since has been to the finals once and third round 3 more times in his 8 years as GM. You have a pretty high standard if that's failure.

Other teams had good players too, Detroit had kids from, datsyuk and Zetterberg, Philly had Giroux pronger Carter Richards Briere, Vancouver had the Sedins and Luongo, Sharks had Thornton Marleau, Heatley ect. It's easy to say he had a head start when you don't look at what other teams had too, and I'm not even a big believer in yzerman.

I think you know what he means though. All the cup runs don't matter much in the end if you never win. We as Sens fans know exactly how this works; you have an amazing team that could and should win it all, but is missing a little piece here and there. Our GM's never got it done, and we've had some doozy teams.

SY has to find that piece or he'll end up being a guy that ran a nice team but never won anything. Not a terrible resume, like BMurr for instance, but I don't think players, coaches, or GM, think too too much about accomplishments that don't win it all.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

interesting ... Truth or Dare

Good move by Ms. Caryk ... Show me the evidence. I hope she can prove its not her.

 

[JungleBeat]

Good for her. Trial of public opinion is very tough. I feel like the story goes deeper than the original reports. We shouldn’t be picking sides here until facts come out.

 

[Micklebot]

I think you know what he means though. All the cup runs don't matter much in the end if you never win. We as Sens fans know exactly how this works; you have an amazing team that could and should win it all, but is missing a little piece here and there. Our GM's never got it done, and we've had some doozy teams.

SY has to find that piece or he'll end up being a guy that ran a nice team but never won anything. Not a terrible resume, like BMurr for instance, but I don't think players, coaches, or GM, think too too much about accomplishments that don't win it all.

They may not matter in terms of the end goal but are they indicative of a well managed team? Because that's the question, no? Winning the cup takes as much luck as it does talent. But if you consistently give yourself the chance to catch a break, eventually you do.

Guys like Poole are well respected at their trade for example despite never winning. I'd take home over a number of SC winning Gms because frankly while winning it all is the end goal it is not the best metric to evaluate the job done.

 

[Micklebot]

interesting ... Truth or Dare

Good move by Ms. Caryk ... Show me the evidence. I hope she can prove its not her.

Watch the Panthers trade home after this is all figured out at full value. We were in a no win situation, but the whole situation stinks, and probably could have been handled better by all parties.

 

[JD1]

yes he did ta

He took over a team them missed the playoffs 3 years in a row and since has been to the finals once and third round 3 more times in his 8 years as GM. You have a pretty high standard if that's failure.

Other teams had good players too, Detroit had kids from, datsyuk and Zetterberg, Philly had Giroux pronger Carter Richards Briere, Vancouver had the Sedins and Luongo, Sharks had Thornton Marleau, Heatley ect. It's easy to say he had a head start when you don't look at what other teams had too, and I'm not even a big believer in yzerman.

yes he did takeover a team that missed a few in a row. they had drafted a couple of hall of famers by the time he arrived. it's not the results he's achieved, it's the hand he was dealt. LA, Chicago and Pittsburgh were all in the same boat. They sucked. They drafted high end players. They managed to mold together cup winnings teams. SY has not done that with a strong hand. it's not an issue of my standards, it's an issue of achievement relative to his situation.

Bit that wasn't the point. The post I responded to was regarding how we have failed to surround EK with talent. You can't just acquire mid career HoF talent. It happens once a decade kind of thing. And in our small market it is more challenging for us to do it as we are not exactly a destination city Surronding EK with talent acquired via trades and ufas might make us annually competitive, but the numbers say that without the second and possibly third HoF calibre player the odds of winning are very small.

 

[Micklebot]

yes he did ta


yes he did takeover a team that missed a few in a row. they had drafted a couple of hall of famers by the time he arrived. it's not the results he's achieved, it's the hand he was dealt. LA, Chicago and Pittsburgh were all in the same boat. They sucked. They drafted high end players. They managed to mold together cup winnings teams. SY has not done that with a strong hand. it's not an issue of my standards, it's an issue of achievement relative to his situation.

Bit that wasn't the point. The post I responded to was regarding how we have failed to surround EK with talent. You can't just acquire mid career HoF talent. It happens once a decade kind of thing. And in our small market it is more challenging for us to do it as we are not exactly a destination city Surronding EK with talent acquired via trades and ufas might make us annually competitive, but the numbers say that without the second and possibly third HoF calibre player the odds of winning are very small.

Is anybody suggesting that the team should have added more hof talent? Sorry, that's a straw man argument right there. People want to see 4 top 4 dmen. When is the last time the team could honestly say they had that? They want to see 4 lines that all have properly slotted playrs, not chris Kelly playing two years past his best before date, not Greening or Regin on Spezza's wing, not the corps of Oduya, Legand on the 3rd line after it was clear he was done, not Burrows getting PP time.

People aren't arguing we need to have won the cup like the hawks or pens, they just want to see the team get the pieces to give them a fighting chance, not ignore obvious holes in the lineup.

Yzerman may not have won the cup yet, but he built a damn solid team and has consistently gone out and filled holes when they appear. Go ahead and call him a failure but frankly if you look at the team's development since his arrival, it's clear he's done more than just be gifted some HOF talent as you suggest.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Is anybody suggesting that the team should have added more hof talent? Sorry, that's a straw man argument right there. People want to see 4 top 4 dmen. When is the last time the team could honestly say they had that? They want to see 4 lines that all have properly slotted playrs, not chris Kelly playing two years past his best before date, not Greening or Regin on Spezza's wing, not the corps of Oduya, Legand on the 3rd line after it was clear he was done, not Burrows getting PP time.

People aren't arguing we need to have won the cup like the hawks or pens, they just want to see the team get the pieces to give them a fighting chance, not ignore obvious holes in the lineup.

Yzerman may not have won the cup yet, but he built a damn solid team and has consistently gone out and filled holes when they appear. Go ahead and call him a failure but frankly if you look at the team's development since his arrival, it's clear he's done more than just be gifted some HOF talent as you suggest.

Players don't want to come here unless we overpay them big time and if that's the case then what have you really accomplished?

I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen players want to come and play with a guy like Karlsson even if it's just to boost their value for their next contract. But despite his skill and production you still don't have anyone willing to take a fair contract to come and play in Ottawa. Is that an indictment of Dorion or Karlsson or Melnyk or is it simply the reality of having a team in Ottawa?

 

[slamigo]

Players don't want to come here unless we overpay them big time and if that's the case then what have you really accomplished?

Lolwut? This is complete nonsense.

 

[JD1]

Is anybody suggesting that the team should have added more hof talent? Sorry, that's a straw man argument right there. People want to see 4 top 4 dmen. When is the last time the team could honestly say they had that? They want to see 4 lines that all have properly slotted playrs, not chris Kelly playing two years past his best before date, not Greening or Regin on Spezza's wing, not the corps of Oduya, Legand on the 3rd line after it was clear he was done, not Burrows getting PP time.

People aren't arguing we need to have won the cup like the hawks or pens, they just want to see the team get the pieces to give them a fighting chance, not ignore obvious holes in the lineup.

Yzerman may not have won the cup yet, but he built a damn solid team and has consistently gone out and filled holes when they appear. Go ahead and call him a failure but frankly if you look at the team's development since his arrival, it's clear he's done more than just be gifted some HOF talent as you suggest.

needing to surround EK with more talent is often cited as a failure.

we were a goal away from the SF two years ago. We added talent at the TDL that year . Our GM was nominated for GM of the year. buT as the stats show until you have those elite players it likely ain't happening.

anyway I'm done with this discussion. it wasn't originally with you and I don't feel the need to engage in your wanting to be right.

 

[Beville]

interesting ... Truth or Dare

Good move by Ms. Caryk ... Show me the evidence. I hope she can prove its not her.

What are the odds nothing happened and it’s just a massive scandal for both players to get traded

 

[slamigo]

What are the odds nothing happened and it’s just a massive scandal for both players to get traded

That’s my worry. Hoffman is exonerated and PD traded him away for peanuts.

 

[c_mak]

Just because you can't prove something in court does not mean it isn't true

Signed OJ

 

[jbeck5]

Lolwut? This is complete nonsense.

Lol what?

What good player would sign here for less than somewhere else?

 

[slamigo]

Lol what?

What good player would sign here for less than somewhere else?

That’s not what you posted. This isn’t asking a player to take a home town discount (which has happened before). You said no player will come to Ottawa unless they “overpay them big time”.

That’s simply not true.

 

[Big Papi]

interesting ... Truth or Dare

Good move by Ms. Caryk ... Show me the evidence. I hope she can prove its not her.

I think you guys are misunderstanding what has happened
A Norwich Order is not an order demanding disclosure from say the Karlsson's Lawyer, but from a third party that is believed to be in possession of evidence, forcing them to preserve it. So it would potentially be served on instagram or facebook or twitter with specifics as to which accounts it pertains too. So it's sorta a separate issue.

With that said, they seem to be saying they haven't received any disclosure, but have requested it. On the flip side claim they haven't been served anything yet, which is odd given the amount of time that has past. But with that said, no statements are being made by the lawyers, so who knows whats really taking place atm...

 

[Micklebot]

Players don't want to come here unless we overpay them big time and if that's the case then what have you really accomplished?

I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen players want to come and play with a guy like Karlsson even if it's just to boost their value for their next contract. But despite his skill and production you still don't have anyone willing to take a fair contract to come and play in Ottawa. Is that an indictment of Dorion or Karlsson or Melnyk or is it simply the reality of having a team in Ottawa?

Kind of a chicken or the egg problem, no? They don't want to come because they know we won't fill the holes to make the team competitive. Start showing that we will commit to competing and guys will want to be here instead of needing to be paid more to be here. We may never get the same team friendly deals as teams with no state tax but at least we won't have the players impose a bottom feeder tax on us.