Kari Lehtonen vs Marc Andre Fleury

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

Please don't miss my point.

You said this. I'm saying he was considered better only a year ago. Now? Lehtonen is better. Who says that won't go back and forth for the next few years?

Well in my view Lehtonen was the better prospect last year. Fleury only got so much hype at his draft year like you do. Wheres the hype now eh.

 

[Jacob]

You would have been in the minority if a year ago you still felt Lehtonen was better. Fleury was dominating the NHL at this time last year. I don't think the draft changed people's opinions as much as his play early on in the NHL.

It has occurred to me that you have yet to make a viable point in this entire thread.

 

[Steve Latin*]

Well in my view Lehtonen was the better prospect last year. Fleury only got so much hype at his draft year like you do. Wheres the hype now eh.

Last year, the year when you didn't even know which league he was playing in.

 

[Verbal Kint*]

You honestly think Fleury has the upsides that Lehtonen has? I'll say it again Fleury shouldn't have gone #1 in 03 while 02 which had higher end talent Lehtonen may turn out to be the best. While Lehtonen was drafted one year earlier is he only a few months older so to say he is futher on in his development is wrong. Both if im not mistaken are in their rookie AHl seasons. Lehtonen is getting used to NA and therefore you'd expect him to take a while to settle in yet he has been good for the Wolves. Lehtonen is close to a sure thing as a goalie prospect. Fleury isn't a sure thing and has a lower ceiling. Therefore it is most likely that Lehtonen. There are no certainties but if Lehtonen maxs his potential (most likely will) he will be easily the better of the two.

You honestly think Darcy Tucker (for example) had the upside Alexander Daigle had? Eerily enough, I think its pretty easy to distiguish who's had the better career of the two.

 

[Verbal Kint*]

Sorry man i just don't see Fleury becoming better than lehtonen. All the time this debate has been going on you haven't said who you think will be better.

Exactly YOU.

I don't care how many years opf palm reading you have under your belt or how much you paid for that crystal ball, you can't predict the future. When comparing two players at this stage in their careers its nigh impossible to disinguish which one holds a better future and we must guess based on our opinions. It'll be a lot easier to take your argument in if you would realize that it isn't bulletproof.

Also everybody always seems to discount the fact that Lehtonen has a year on Fleury which at this point can be rather significant when you compare them side by side.

 

[Verbal Kint*]

I am ridicilously stupid but what the **** does SL mean. Lehtonen is better now. He is ready for the NHL now as a starter for the Thrahers. Lehtonen pherhaps will turn out to be the best guy from his draft. Best goalie prospect since Luongo. I highly doubt Fleury will be the best from his draft.

And I think there is considerable doubt Lehtonen will be the best from his year. Jay Boumeester and Rick Nash were after all the 1 and 3 picks.

Also Fleury in his first few games in the NHL was superb as well. However at age 18 he didn't have the endurance to keep it up, who are we to say Lehtonen won't crumble should he be put in between the pipes as the No. 1 goalie?

 

[Til the End of Time]

I'd say Lehtonen is the better goaltender and the better prospect right now. But I think a case could be made either way, for Fleury or Lehtonen.

However, who is better right now is of little importance in the grand scheme of things.

I think who ultimately is the better netminder will depend on the teams in front of them. Right now, both the Pens and Thrashers have pretty bad defenses. For a young netminder to have sustained success in the NHL, the teams in front of them will need to show more of a commitment to defense than they have thus far.

The Penguins had by far the worst defense in the league last year, but they have one of the better groups of defensive prospects around. They may or may not pan out, but there's alot of potential there. Also, the plans that the Pens have laid basically are for a defense-first team, based around Fleury. Aside from Malkin, most of their top prospects are two-way players or defensemen. Whether this Jersey-esque team ever comes to fruition is uncertain, but that's what management seems to want.

On the other hand, Atlanta has built an offense-first team; obviously based around Heatley and Kovalchuk, among others. They do have some young D-men that will soon step in, but will they change the philosophy of the Thrashers? I'm not so sure. In the past three years the Thrashers have had, at its highest, the 25th best defense in the league, although it's improving (but signing Modry doesn't help). I personally think Atlanta will and should play a run-and-gun style, but that might hurt the numbers of Lehtonen, and so also the general perception we have of him.

Obviously, getting solid goaltending will be perhaps the biggest step towards the Pens and Thrashers being better defensively. But Lehtonen and Fleury can't do it alone, at least I don't think.

Right now, Lehtonen gets the nod as the better prospect. But in ten years time, which is what the original question asked, things could change. How the Penguins and Thrashers improve their lacking defenses in the years to come could go a long way to determining who is the best goalie in the league.

 

[me2]

I am ridicilously stupid but what the **** does SL mean.

Look at his name.

 

[arnie]

:quote] Also, it's Lehtonen's second year in the AHL...it's Fleury's first (short of 2 games in the playoffs

No it's not. This is Lehtonen's first AHL season. Further, he has had to adjust to a foreign culture and to playing North American hockey. Yet he is still doing better.

 

[arnie]

Fleury has unbelievable skill (the most I have seen from a goalie his age, maybe even any age) as does Lehtonen from what I hear. It's too early to tell, especially with goaltenders. Fleury during October could very well have been the best goaltender in the NHL, hopefully he continues to develop along with the Penguins' defense. Lehtonen now, *hopefully* Fleury in the long run.

Yeah, and this October he was probably the worst goaltender in the AHL. So what's your point.

 

[arnie]

..does what # he was drafted at really matter? I don't think it does.

You completely miss the point. I',m saying that he is overrated because he is a #1 pick. I agree that it doesn't make much difference in potyential. But it does make a difference when it comews to the hype that a player receives.

 

[Rahan]

You would have been in the minority if a year ago you still felt Lehtonen was better. Fleury was dominating the NHL at this time last year. I don't think the draft changed people's opinions as much as his play early on in the NHL.

It has occurred to me that you have yet to make a viable point in this entire thread.

I didn't see Fleury dominate anything. Lehtonen is soo much better.

 

[Til the End of Time]

This is Lehtonen's first AHL season.

I think you're mistaken, my friend.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=50538

This would be his second, not first, year in the AHL. The fact that Lehtonen is a year ahead in his development should be taken into consideration.

 

[Michael Morbid]

Lehtonen, Lehtonen, Lehtonen.

 

[Jacob]

I didn't see Fleury dominate anything.

Sorry you missed it, but Fleury was unbelievable in October and November.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

just shows how fickle this board is. there were threads by non pens fans declaring fleury as the next roy or brodeur early last year.

 

[Jacob]

Darren Pang had him as a Vezina Candidate in early November.

 

[#66]

I think you're mistaken, my friend.

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=50538

This would be his second, not first, year in the AHL. The fact that Lehtonen is a year ahead in his development should be taken into consideration.

The fact that Lehtonen has been developed should also be taken into consideration. The Pens should hang their heads in shame for the way that MAF was bounced around last year. He has looked great this year though and I'm still hoping that the Pens bring in a high end goaltending coach. An overflowing amount of raw skill is there the Pens just have to develope it.

 

[Til the End of Time]

OT sort of, but does anyone know if Chicago and/or Atlanta has a goaltending coach?

 

[Grave77digger]

TORONTO -- Penguins goaltender Marc-Andre Fleury was named the NHL Rookie of the Month for October on Tuesday.
It was a tight race, but Fleury beat out Boston Bruins forward Patrice Bergeron (3 goals, 5 assists, plus-5 in 11 games), Bruins goaltender Andrew Raycroft (3-1-1, 1.65 goals-against average, one shutout) and Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Joni Pitkanen (2 goals, 4 assists, plus-6 in nine games) for the honor.

Fleury, 18, accumulated a 2-2-2 record, a 1.96 GAA, a .943 save percentage and one shutout in six games. He also faced 211 shots for an average of 35.2 per game, leading all NHL goaltenders. Fleury is the league's youngest goaltender by more than three years, behind 22-year-old Rick DiPietro of the New York Islanders.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/s_163512.html


LEARN HOCKEY BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH!

 

[Amen evil king]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/sports/s_163512.html


LEARN HOCKEY BEFORE OPENING YOUR MOUTH!

He must have almost been a candidate for player of the month!

 

[Rowsdower]

Yeah, and this October he was probably the worst goaltender in the AHL. So what's your point.

That's a bit drastic IMO....and if I'm not mistaken, Lehtonen didn't exactly have a sparkling start to this season either.


Also, I have to say I'm a bit suprised at how few of the Lehtonen backers in this thread don't even know how many pro seasons he's logged (you're at least the second one in this thread). You'd think for people so certain of his superiority, you guys would know him like the back of your hands.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

That's a bit drastic IMO....and if I'm not mistaken, Lehtonen didn't exactly have a sparkling start to this season either.

correct. they both had terrible starts this year.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

just shows how fickle this board is. there were threads by non pens fans declaring fleury as the next roy or brodeur early last year.

I was about to post something to this affect earlier. It isn't just with this Fleury/Lehtonen (frivolous) debate; it's with pretty much every prospect.

Yeah, and this October he was probably the worst goaltender in the AHL. So what's your point.

You've already messed up your facts with the Lehtonen rookie year thing...and this is a pretty ridiculous assertion.

Fleury played 6 games in October. The worst game for him was when they were blown out by Manchester, but the whole Wilkes Barre team was awful in that game. In the second game he played in against Lowell, he gave up 5 goals but had 30 saves. I remember that game and Lowell's offense gave Wilkes Barre a lot of trouble.

Then he stopped 30/32 against Bridgeport, and then had another game in which he gave up a dpretty large amount of goals: 4. But that game was very decieiving. It was against Albany and the game was actually very close for most of the game. Albany scored two goals in quick secession to take a lead, and then the game was still very close. They ended up with an empty netter and then an additional goal after the empty netter. They had 15 shots in the third and Fleury kept them in the game for a while.

Then he had a one goal, 36 save performance to beat Albany, and then a 28 save shutout to close the month against Binghamton.

He got off to a rough start against Manchester, and to an extent against Lowell, but to say that he was the worst goalie in the entire AHL in October is absurd. Early in the year, Wilkes Barre was still figuring out who their goalie was. By the end of the month, Fleury had won over Therrien and he has been the starter ever since then. He's the major constant the team has had this year and is a huge reason why they are right in the thick of things in the Eastern Conference.

That's not to say he is a better goalie or a better prospect than Lehtonen. As I said above, this whole debate is pretty frivolous. I'm not going to argue about which 19 or 20 year old goalie is better and will be better. I'm perfectly content with the way Fleury has played this year and looking forward to more of it. I'm certainly not going to get my panties in a bunch because of a freak accident involving a 6'5" monster at a junior tournament last year.

Fleury is a fine goaltending prospect and along with Lehtonen heads up a great group of young goalie prospects. Time will only tell which ones even stick in the NHL, let alone even start to be mentioned with NHL legends such as Patrick Roy, but Fleury's play has given me as a Penguin fan a lot of hope that we've found our franchise goalie.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

You honestly think Darcy Tucker (for example) had the upside Alexander Daigle had? Eerily enough, I think its pretty easy to distiguish who's had the better career of the two.

The difference is Lehtonen is a very safe top prospect and unlike Daigle it is almost certain that he will play in the NHL and play well.

And I think there is considerable doubt Lehtonen will be the best from his year. Jay Boumeester and Rick Nash were after all the 1 and 3 picks.

Also Fleury in his first few games in the NHL was superb as well. However at age 18 he didn't have the endurance to keep it up, who are we to say Lehtonen won't crumble should he be put in between the pipes as the No. 1 goalie?

Lehtonen has the potetial to be the best and the most valuable. I still hope for massive things from J-BO but there is still a doubt to whether he will do what he can. Nash will be a stud but in this day and age a great goaltender is more valuable than a great scorer.