Kari Lehtonen vs Marc Andre Fleury

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Fleury has unbelievable skill (the most I have seen from a goalie his age, maybe even any age) as does Lehtonen from what I hear. It's too early to tell, especially with goaltenders. Fleury during October could very well have been the best goaltender in the NHL, hopefully he continues to develop along with the Penguins' defense. Lehtonen now, *hopefully* Fleury in the long run.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

You can not teach quickness and speed, and Maffy has that in abundence, though he is still developing. Right now I would not do more than say what the scouts all say, that any team would be thrilled to have either. Ask me which one is most likely to be better in five years though. Remember the Isles traded Luongo when he was a bit further along, and he had 'star' written all over him but still they never would have done the deal had they had a crystal ball to see it turn into what it did. It takes time, right now Lehtonen has the outside edge, but not a huge edge, in the prediction game, but that means only a small bit, both should be very very good for years to come.

 

[Verbal Kint*]

Kari Lehtonen gonna soon become one of the most dominating goalie we ever saw. IMO. He has it all, I cant say how much I'm high on him. Atlanta scares me if they can get a somewhat decent defense.

He's huge, fast, strong physically, real strong mentally, he gots some sick legs. Amazing glove.

As much as I would like Fleury to be the next great goaltender of my nation, I don't think he ever gonna become a top-star. He's quick... so damn quick but he has a fluorescent five-hole and IMO, note thats just my unbiased opinion but he doesnt have that Roy-Brodeur-Belfour-Theodore-Lehtonen mental thoughness that makes a good goaltender the best of his peer. He's got Jocelyn Thibault written all-over him. Not bad, even real good. Just far away from Lehtonen.

A) Roy, Belfour and Hasek (not included on your list but one of the greatest goaltenders of our generation) aren't exactly mentally tough. Half the time the smallest thing will make them snap like a twig.

B) Um, could we perhaps be including Lehtonen on our list a bit early. He's not even 5 games into his NHL career yet you label him with the best goalies of the generation above him.

C) The next person who makes a Lehtonen vs. Fleury or Crosby vs. Ovechkin thread gets lynched.

 

[Verbal Kint*]

You can not teach quickness and speed, and Maffy has that in abundence, though he is still developing. Right now I would not do more than say what the scouts all say, that any team would be thrilled to have either. Ask me which one is most likely to be better in five years though. Remember the Isles traded Luongo when he was a bit further along, and he had 'star' written all over him but still they never would have done the deal had they had a crystal ball to see it turn into what it did. It takes time, right now Lehtonen has the outside edge, but not a huge edge, in the prediction game, but that means only a small bit, both should be very very good for years to come.

Thats what conditioning's for.

 

[Rowsdower]

Fleury will never never never ever be as good as Lehtonen. Lehtonen is the best goalie prospect in the world by some way.

And you know this how? Prospect is the key word you used. Neither ones NHL career is barely under way. WAY to premature to make a statement as ignorant as the one you just made. It's time for us to all stop thinking we can predict the future.

Your opinion is just that an opinion, and until you start going about backing your opinions in ways other than 'Fleury will never never never ever be as good as Lethonen and is miles behind him, because I said so'....well, your opinions are quite useless.

 

[Rowsdower]

A) Roy, Belfour and Hasek (not included on your list but one of the greatest goaltenders of our generation) aren't exactly mentally tough. Half the time the smallest thing will make them snap like a twig.

B) Um, could we perhaps be including Lehtonen on our list a bit early. He's not even 5 games into his NHL career yet you label him with the best goalies of the generation above him.

C) The next person who makes a Lehtonen vs. Fleury or Crosby vs. Ovechkin thread gets lynched.

Agreed on all three accounts there.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

And you know this how? Prospect is the key word you used. Neither ones NHL career is barely under way. WAY to premature to make a statement as ignorant as the one you just made. It's time for us to all stop thinking we can predict the future.

Your opinion is just that an opinion, and until you start going about backing your opinions in ways other than 'Fleury will never never never ever be as good as Lethonen and is miles behind him, because I said so'....well, your opinions are quite useless.

Well Lehtonen is better goalie right now. Lehtonen as the much higher ceiling. Lehtonen is the best goalie prospect. Lehtonen will most likely be the starter for Atlanta when the NHL resumes. Fleury may a Pittsburgh but isn't ready for it.
Lehtonen is better now and has the higher ceiling. Thats pretty conclusive to me. Sure Lehtonen could become a bust and Fleury maxs his potential but if both develop as expected (and Lehtonen is) then Lehtonen will be by far the better goalie.

 

[Rowsdower]

Well Lehtonen is better goalie right now. Lehtonen as the much higher ceiling. Lehtonen is the best goalie prospect. Lehtonen will most likely be the starter for Atlanta when the NHL resumes. Fleury may a Pittsburgh but isn't ready for it.
Lehtonen is better now and has the higher ceiling. Thats pretty conclusive to me. Sure Lehtonen could become a bust and Fleury maxs his potential but if both develop as expected (and Lehtonen is) then Lehtonen will be by far the better goalie.

Well, it's not pretty conclusive to me. We won't anything conclusive to such overzealous statements until about 5 years from now. Until then, it's anyone's guess (wanted to put that in bold since you are having some trouble realizing that is what you are doing). Also, a lot of your facts (a word you should look up sometime) are debatable. For one, I hardly think Lethonen's ceiling isn't any higher than Fleury's. Lethonen's further along his development....well I would hope so, he was drafted a year earlier. And like I said at least twice in one of these threads, just because a player is better now doesn't mean he stays the way, especially when we are talking about 20/21 year olds, and even if Lethonen is 'progressing as expected.' Also, the idea that Lethonen may start for Atlanta while Fleury won't for Pittsburgh is pointless....so what? Atlanta is a better team, and Lethonen is a year further along. It seems reasonable to me that he'll start beforehand...if he does, it's highly likely Fleury will follow soon after. None of this has much longevity in my eyes, not for what you are trying to do with it.

If you want to say you think Lethonen is better and think he will be better than Fleury is fine...but you are trying to tell me that he WILL be better, which is ridiculous. They have proven very little in the NHL (the league that matters) and when they do keep their foots in the door, both will likely be playing for roughly 15-19 more years. To guarentee that one will not only be better than the other, but 'by far', is a ridiculous, ignorant statement. You cannot make a statement such as yours sound credible. There is just no way.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

Well, it's not pretty conclusive to me. We won't anything conclusive to such overzealous statements until about 5 years from now. Until then, it's anyone's guess (wanted to put that in bold since you are having some trouble realizing that is what you are doing). Also, a lot of your facts (a word you should look up sometime) are debatable. For one, I hardly think Lethonen's ceiling isn't any higher than Fleury's. Lethonen's further along his development....well I would hope so, he was drafted a year earlier. And like I said at least twice in one of these threads, just because a player is better now doesn't mean he stays the way, especially when we are talking about 20/21 year olds, and even if Lethonen is 'progressing as expected.' Also, the idea that Lethonen may start for Atlanta while Fleury won't for Pittsburgh is pointless....so what? Atlanta is a better team, and Lethonen is a year further along. It seems reasonable to me that he'll start beforehand...if he does, it's highly likely Fleury will follow soon after. None of this has much longevity in my eyes, not for what you are trying to do with it.

If you want to say you think Lethonen is better and think he will be better than Fleury is fine...but you are trying to tell me that he WILL be better, which is ridiculous. They have proven very little in the NHL (the league that matters) and when they do keep their foots in the door, both will likely be playing for roughly 15-19 more years. To guarentee that one will not only be better than the other, but 'by far', is a ridiculous, ignorant statement. You cannot make a statement such as yours sound credible. There is just no way.

You honestly think Fleury has the upsides that Lehtonen has? I'll say it again Fleury shouldn't have gone #1 in 03 while 02 which had higher end talent Lehtonen may turn out to be the best. While Lehtonen was drafted one year earlier is he only a few months older so to say he is futher on in his development is wrong. Both if im not mistaken are in their rookie AHl seasons. Lehtonen is getting used to NA and therefore you'd expect him to take a while to settle in yet he has been good for the Wolves. Lehtonen is close to a sure thing as a goalie prospect. Fleury isn't a sure thing and has a lower ceiling. Therefore it is most likely that Lehtonen. There are no certainties but if Lehtonen maxs his potential (most likely will) he will be easily the better of the two.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Before joining the Canadians, that loser Jaques Plante was allowing almost 3.5 goals a game in his AHL days . . . http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=00004310

Dominik Hasek in his debut season with the Sabres gave up 3.15 goals a game and had an .896 save percentage. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/players/260/

Good thing those Sabres stuck by that guy, huh?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

You honestly think Fleury has the upsides that Lehtonen has? I'll say it again Fleury shouldn't have gone #1 in 03 while 02 which had higher end talent Lehtonen may turn out to be the best. While Lehtonen was drafted one year earlier is he only a few months older so to say he is futher on in his development is wrong. Both if im not mistaken are in their rookie AHl seasons. Lehtonen is getting used to NA and therefore you'd expect him to take a while to settle in yet he has been good for the Wolves. Lehtonen is close to a sure thing as a goalie prospect. Fleury isn't a sure thing and has a lower ceiling. Therefore it is most likely that Lehtonen. There are no certainties but if Lehtonen maxs his potential (most likely will) he will be easily the better of the two.

I think that most would rate Lehtonen as the prospect that they would take of the two if forced to choose, but not to the degree that you imply. Any team would give their right nut for either, and Maffy is definately included in that statement. Right now both have very high ceilings, none of us can say what they will do with those ceilings though. I am just happy that my team has one of them.

 

[Rowsdower]

You honestly think Fleury has the upsides that Lehtonen has? I'll say it again Fleury shouldn't have gone #1 in 03 while 02 which had higher end talent Lehtonen may turn out to be the best. While Lehtonen was drafted one year earlier is he only a few months older so to say he is futher on in his development is wrong. Both if im not mistaken are in their rookie AHl seasons. Lehtonen is getting used to NA and therefore you'd expect him to take a while to settle in yet he has been good for the Wolves. Lehtonen is close to a sure thing as a goalie prospect. Fleury isn't a sure thing and has a lower ceiling. Therefore it is most likely that Lehtonen. There are no certainties but if Lehtonen maxs his potential (most likely will) he will be easily the better of the two.

...and I'll say it again, where you are drafted and whether or not you deserved to be drafted there is in the long run, pointless. So what if Fleury did not deserve to go #1 (which I disagree with)? Broduer, Roy, Hasek, Belfour...none of these guys went first. Just what is is you are trying to get at with that?

Sure Fleury's upside is Lethonen's equal...keep in mind upside doesn't always lead to results. Fleury got just as much skill as Lethonen IMHO, and just as much potential. However, there is the obvious chance any young player doesn't reach their potential....but if we take your 'perfect world scenario' where Lehtonen achieves his max potential and apply it to Fleury, the two will be very comparable goalies.

Also, it's Lehtonen's second year in the AHL...it's Fleury's first (short of 2 games in the playoffs)...so yeah I do think Lethonen is further along, especially considering how much Fleury was jerked around...he played 15 games in the Q last season. Lehts was pro the whole year. Oh, and Lehtonen is practically a year older than Fleury. I know you prefer your psychic prowess over actual facts, but when trying to employ them (facts that is) let's try and get them right.

I will agree with one thing...Lehtonen seems like the safer bet at this stage....but none of us (not even someone as intelligent as you) know what the future will bring. If you want to sit there and think that your little guarentee has any merit whatsover than go ahead....I'm just letting you know that it is baseless and ignorant. It seems like you want to ignore that.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

...and I'll say it again, where you are drafted and whether or not you deserved to be drafted there is in the long run, pointless. So what if Fleury did not deserve to go #1 (which I disagree with)? Broduer, Roy, Hasek, Belfour...none of these guys went first. Just what is is you are trying to get at with that?

Sure Fleury's upside is Lethonen's equal...keep in mind upside doesn't always lead to results. Fleury got just as much skill as Lethonen IMHO, and just as much potential. However, there is the obvious chance any young player doesn't reach their potential....but if we take your 'perfect world scenario' where Lehtonen achieves his max potential and apply it to Fleury, the two will be very comparable goalies.

Also, it's Lehtonen's second year in the AHL...it's Fleury's first (short of 2 games in the playoffs)...so yeah I do think Lethonen is further along, especially considering how much Fleury was jerked around...he played 15 games in the Q last season. Lehts was pro the whole year. Oh, and Lehtonen is practically a year older than Fleury. I know you prefer your psychic prowess over actual facts, but when trying to employ them (facts that is) let's try and get them right.

I will agree with one thing...Lehtonen seems like the safer bet at this stage....but none of us (not even someone as intelligent as you) know what the future will bring. If you want to sit there and think that your little guarentee has any merit whatsover than go ahead....I'm just letting you know that it is baseless and ignorant. It seems like you want to ignore that.

Pherhaps i've been ignorant in some of my statements but the overall statement i've been saying is lehtonen is going to be better than Fluery and i stand by it. Fleury is overated and if i had the choice to choose one i'd take Lehtonen in an instance. Not too say Fleury won't be good as i think he will but lehtonen is the best goalie prospect since Luongo and he is going to be dominant. Lehtonen is also the far safer goalie to reach his max. And yeah you never know what happens in the future but i'd be very suprised if Fleury turned out as good as lehtonen. It maybe opinion but many people also think Lehtonen will be better than Fleury.

 

[Rowsdower]

Pherhaps i've been ignorant in some of my statements but the overall statement i've been saying is lehtonen is going to be better than Fluery and i stand by it. Fleury is overated and if i had the choice to choose one i'd take Lehtonen in an instance. Not too say Fleury won't be good as i think he will but lehtonen is the best goalie prospect since Luongo and he is going to be dominant. Lehtonen is also the far safer goalie to reach his max. And yeah you never know what happens in the future but i'd be very suprised if Fleury turned out as good as lehtonen. It maybe opinion but many people also think Lehtonen will be better than Fleury.

But you don't think he will be better....according to what you're saying, you know he will. IMO, that was the most ignorant statement of them all. However, you are obviously committed to it, so debating further is pointless.

Here's to hoping both have stellar careers in the NHL.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

But you don't think he will be better....according to what you're saying, you know he will. IMO, that was the most ignorant statement of them all. However, you are obviously committed to it, so debating further is pointless.

Here's to hoping both have stellar careers in the NHL.

Sorry man i just don't see Fleury becoming better than lehtonen. All the time this debate has been going on you haven't said who you think will be better.

 

[Steve Latin*]

Both if im not mistaken are in their rookie AHl seasons.

You are mistaken. Lehtonen played in the AHL last season.

Seeing as you are such an expert on both prospects, I find it surprising that you had no idea where Lehtonen played for an entire season.

S L

 

[Rowsdower]

Sorry man i just don't see Fleury becoming better than lehtonen. All the time this debate has been going on you haven't said who you think will be better.

That's because I don't know who will be better. At this stage I'd go with Lethonen, but for the next ten years, who knows?

I do think the two will have pretty comparable careers. Since Lehtonen is the safer choice, I'd give him a slight edge. Still, as a Penguins fan, I am perfectly content with Fleury.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

You are mistaken. Lehtonen played in the AHL last season.

Seeing as you are such an expert on both prospects, I find it surprising that you had no idea where Lehtonen played for an entire season.

S L

Well i thought Lehtonen was in Europe. I haven't followed hockey that long as i live where hockey doesn't really exist much and all i used to do was follow the Panthers and their prospects not really caring about other teams prospects. I never called my self an expert on them. I knew the Pens released Fleury as they couldn't afford the bonuses or something dumb like that and that he went back to the Q.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

That's because I don't know who will be better. At this stage I'd go with Lethonen, but for the next ten years, who knows?

I do think the two will have pretty comparable careers.

I keep going back to Luongo as a comparison . . . when the Isles traded him Rick DiPietro and Luongo had to be seen as pretty much huge potential question marks. The Isles also guessed that it was Rick DiPietro who had the bigger upside. They so far appear to have guessed wrongly, but that is hindsight. Most in fact saw DiPietro as the better prospect at the time, and in fact he was the first goaltender ever to be taken number one, after Luongo was the first ever to be taken as high as four.

If the analogy would run similarly Rick DiPietro would in fact be the equivilent of Kari Lehtonen (the one seen as the big upside) and Luongo the equivilent of Maffy (a small step below). Just goes to show you that you need to wait on these things.

 

[Steve Latin*]

Well i thought Lehtonen was in Europe. I haven't followed hockey that long as i live where hockey doesn't really exist much and all i used to do was follow the Panthers and their prospects not really caring about other teams prospects. I never called my self an expert on them. I knew the Pens released Fleury as they couldn't afford the bonuses or something dumb like that and that he went back to the Q.

So let me get this straight. You haven't really seen either of them play, but you're not hesitant to decree "Lehtonen is better now", or "Lehtonen has a higher upside"?

S L

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

So let me get this straight. You haven't really seen either of them play, but you're not hesitant to decree "Lehtonen is better now", or "Lehtonen has a higher upside"?

S L

I am ridicilously stupid but what the **** does SL mean. Lehtonen is better now. He is ready for the NHL now as a starter for the Thrahers. Lehtonen pherhaps will turn out to be the best guy from his draft. Best goalie prospect since Luongo. I highly doubt Fleury will be the best from his draft.

 

[backatyou]

the world changes but for how many years has canada dominated the goalie position. why didn't things change over the past 20 years then? i can name a **** load of really good canadian goalies, can you name another country that has even more than 3 amazing goalies? i doubt it.

 

[Jacob]

Sorry man i just don't see Fleury becoming better than lehtonen. All the time this debate has been going on you haven't said who you think will be better.

Fleury was considered better a year ago.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

Fleury was considered better a year ago.

Is he now? HF didn't think so.

 

[Jacob]

Please don't miss my point.

Fleury will never never never ever be as good as Lehtonen

You said this. I'm saying he was considered better only a year ago. Now? Lehtonen is better. Who says that won't go back and forth for the next few years?