Jeff Goldblum
Registered User
bruins4777 said:Over and over again stats DO NOT tell the story.
I don't know how many times this has been said in this thread, I've said it atleast twice. I just don't think he'll get it. Ever.
bruins4777 said:Over and over again stats DO NOT tell the story.
Pens4ever said:I don't know how many times this has been said in this thread, I've said it atleast twice. I just don't think he'll get it. Ever.
Lehtonen32 said:*Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends.....*
Taxman said:Facts:
1. Chicago is a worse defensive team than Wilkes-Barre
2. Lehtonen faces more shots per night than Fleury and stops a higher percentage of shots from going in.
Stats aren't everything but they are a good piece of support when used properly. What exactly about Lehtonen's save percentage, shots faced per night, etc is so ridiculously absurd and/or irrelevant that we should throw such quality insight into performance out the window?
Is it really stretching it to say that Lehtonen has outperformed Fleury this year based on these things? Come on.
Everynight a goalie will face both easy shots as well as a barrage of hard to stop shots. Over a season, over a large number of goals, the percentages will even out. All goalies face their share of both hard and easy shots on goal. No goalie over a season will have a ratio of hard to stop vs easy to stop shots on goal higher than all the other goalies. Law of large numbers (and common sense) will tell you that.
Lehtonen faces MORE shots a night than Fleury and he STOPS more of them than Fleury. Common sense tells you that Lehtonen is performing better than Fleury this year.
Simple fact is the better goalies prevent less goals from scoring than the poorer goalies. That is, afterall, what a goalie's job is. To throw goalie stats like save percentage out the window is absurd. It isn't everything, true, but it sure the hell isn't something to laugh at either. We all need metrics to judge our performances partly on, and for goalies, save percentage is a damn good metric.
I agree that if there is going to be some error when comparing save percentages, but in the case of Lehtonen and Fleury, their save percentages aren't really close at all. Even with room for error, Lehtonen is dominating Fleury this year.
Mountaineer Penguin said:Bottom line is that right now Lehtonen is ahead of Fleury and is the more sure prospect.
As far as futures are concerned, no one can predict who will be better. Lehtonen has an obvious advantage in size. I have not seen much of Lehtonen, but have seen alot of Fleury. Most reports I read would probably give Fleury a slight edge in quickness and I feel he is quicker than most all NHL goalies. His quickness seems to have allowed him to get away with some imperfect positional play at lower levels. Fleury seems to be getting better at squaring up to shooters. If he can improve this part of his game he should be a dominating NHL goalie.
Obviously, Fleury also needs to work on his puck handling. To label Fleury as a choker at this point in his career is ridiculous as he is still very young.
Anyways, I think that their upsides are pretty even. Lehtonen clearly has a better chance to reach his potential and is further along, but Fleury is still very young and hopefully with some good coaching has a good chance to reach his potential as all the tools are already there.
bruins4777 said:Hmm interesting way of looking at it. Well this is how i see it.
Size wise, lehts obviously. Puckhandling, lehts by miles. Poise, lehts by miles. Speed, fleury barely. reflexes, fleury barely. Positioning, lehts. Technical ability, lehts. Squaring, lehts. I honestly think that lehts beats fleury everywhere except speed and reflexes. And both being BARE. I personally see fleury as a guy who's positioning is vastly overrated. He has a nice sense, but i saw him a lot last year and he was constantly flopping aroudn cause he was out of position.
It means Fleury is barely faster than lehtonen, and barely has quicker reflexes. Lehtonen is far more polished and much better in virtually every aspect. and those aspects for which fleury is ahead of lehtonen are very slim, which was the point of the whole paragraph.Til the End of Time said:What does that mean?
barely!Grave77digger said:This is the thread that never ends...it goes on and on my friend... Face it we will be forever feuding with Fleury Vs Lehtonen and Malkin Vs Ovechkin threads. and is that such a bad thing, not like theres any NHL to watch or talk about.
Kaiped Krusader said:I don't think many people think Fleury doesn't have a bright future, just that Lehtonen's future is a bit brighter. HF's rankings of the two seem to be in consensus more or less with posters' feelings in general.
Now that we've discussed this topic ad naseum, I'm curious who people would rather build a team around: Gretzky or Lemieux?
Jaded-Fan said:But I would remind people thaat Maffy is a full two years younger than Lehtonen and that 19 is a world of difference from 21.
Jacobv2 said:That's not clear at all from those stats. I just got done saying that the few shots Fleury does see are generally high-quality scoring chances.
Jacobv2 said:Let's look at what Fleury IS doing this year; He's taking the starting job away from Chiodo and has clearly separated himself as the team's go-to netminder,
I'm not disputing that, Copernicus. What I'm disputing is that Fleury's not as far behind as some are concluding by looking at just stats.arnie said:This is a pathetic rationalization. The facts are plain: Lehtonen has much better save percentage and faces more shots. The conclusion is obvious: is his playing better.
Never said that by any means, nor did I think it. Thanks for putting words into my mouth, though.Fleury won the job over an 8th round draft pick and you think that this is proof of greatness.
arnie said:Fleury won the job over an 8th round draft pick and you think that this is proof of greatness. That's really a laugh.