Proposal: Kapanen + for Braun

[WilliamNylander]

Wouldn't take Braun for free

 

[Groo]

Wouldn't take Braun for free

Just like a leaf fan to believe that someone better will come along /be made available for less

 

[Cotton]

I agree his speed is a big asset but his two-way game is not the big asset you claim it is. He has the skills for it if the desire to play defensively matches up to it but that has been critiqued in the past. If he can consistently show that commitment then he would be serviceable in the role but that's not going to make him some valuable trade piece. What will make him valuable is if those shooting skills and ability to get open in the offensive zone become a consistent producer. If not, and chances are it won't, he will be what a lot of wingers are when they're in that bubble of 3rd and 4th line level wingers. Easily replaceable and very limited on trade value and unlikely to pull in a top four defender.

His two way game and speed are why he's getting his shot in the NHL, he hasn't produced in limited auditions on the 2nd line with good players. The competance he's shown has been with his two way game, so I'm confused by your assertion, Babcock praises it, so I'm not sure where you are getting he gets critiqued.

Edit: He didn't have a two-way game to speak of when we traded for him, it's been developing over the past couple seasons. So maybe you are referencing something not as recent.

As for the trade I don't think Kapanen would be enough obviously but I don't care about adding Braun either. I l'm mostly indifferent about it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

His two way game and speed are why he's getting his shot in the NHL, he hasn't produced in limited auditions on the 2nd line with good players. The competance he's shown has been with his two way game, so I'm confused by your assertion, Babcock praises it, so I'm not sure where you are getting he gets critiqued.

Edit: He didn't have a two-way game to speak of when we traded for him, it's been developing over the past couple seasons. So maybe you are referencing something not as recent.

As for the trade I don't think Kapanen would be enough obviously but I don't care about adding Braun either. I l'm mostly indifferent about it.

His two-way play improved to an extent last year. That wasn't what he was coming up as a prospect.

 

[Raging Bull]

I wouldn't say he's a strong 2-way player, he's an asset on the penalty kill due to his speed like Grabner, but I wouldn't be using him in a shutdown role. This is a big season for Kappy to show he can find his niche in the NHL.

 

[I am Canadian]

Leaf's aren't moving significant assets for Braun. A 2nd is about what they would be comfortable paying.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Just like a leaf fan to believe that someone better will come along /be made available for less

Ah yes. Where will we ever find a 41% CF player with a -16% CFrel.

Edit: Just by looking at your posts I'm assuming you don't look at anything but +/- so maybe don't reply.

 

[TAYGB52]

I bet it's boring for you to be wrong this much and never learn anything.

Hamonic was a 2 or a 3 on the Islanders. He's a #4 in Calgary because they have more talent and they were playing better than him. The reality is that Braun has been pretty consistently in that #3 range and he'd be that in Toronto too because they have a need for a player of his capabilities. He would be one of their first two d-men on the ice during a PK. He would be put out there in defensive situations extensively because he has succeeded at that during his career. You don't need a Vlasic to pair with him for him to succeed. There is no evidence to suggest that he needs Vlasic to succeed. That is something you've made up in your head and are treating it as if it's a valid issue when it is not. Even if he weren't to be better than Hainsey, having another player at that level as an option is going to help the defensive play of the team overall especially if it pushes Zaitsev down to lesser competition that he would likely do well at. Depth on the blue line is a very good thing to have.

And I do know what Kapanen is or could be but that doesn't mean that his value should be treated as if it is on par with Braun or anyone simply because you don't know what he could be yet. That's just lazy.

You're still missing the point! Player don't attain a level of play that is transferable league wide. How many times have teams acquired a guy thinking he would be this only to find out he's that? Thinking they got a top line forward only to find out he's not that with their group...thinking they got a top four defenceman only to find out he's not. How many times have teams giving up a promising young guy or picks only to regret it later?
Do you get it yet? Just because Braun is that on SJ, paired with Vlasic (the best shutdown defender in the league)
doesn't mean that's what he'll be elsewhere! GET IT
Wanna know what the really funny thing is... I never once made a proposal with either Braun or Kapanen. I have merely stated that I would give up Kapanen for Braun in a deal. I have consistently stated that I sure Braun could help us... but that i'm not interested in him if Kapanen had to be included.
Then a bunch of you little snowflakes get triggered and went into a fit and started trashing Kapanen.
What's wrong with you?

 

[Cotton]

His two-way play improved to an extent last year. That wasn't what he was coming up as a prospect.

Y

His two-way play improved to an extent last year. That wasn't what he was coming up as a prospect.

I'd say you are sharing a minority opinion that contridicts what has been said publicly by coaches.

Either that or your lost and just winging it to try and back up your initial position.

 

[Groo]

Ah yes. Where will we ever find a 41% CF player with a -16% CFrel.

Edit: Just by looking at your posts I'm assuming you don't look at anything but +/- so maybe don't reply.

Wrong.
I don't look at anything but the games
I know, that makes it worse for many

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You're still missing the point! Player don't attain a level of play that is transferable league wide. How many times have teams acquired a guy thinking he would be this only to find out he's that? Thinking they got a top line forward only to find out he's not that with their group...thinking they got a top four defenceman only to find out he's not. How many times have teams giving up a promising young guy or picks only to regret it later?
Do you get it yet? Just because Braun is that on SJ, paired with Vlasic (the best shutdown defender in the league)
doesn't mean that's what he'll be elsewhere! GET IT
Wanna know what the really funny thing is... I never once made a proposal with either Braun or Kapanen. I have merely stated that I would give up Kapanen for Braun in a deal. I have consistently stated that I sure Braun could help us... but that i'm not interested in him if Kapanen had to be included.
Then a bunch of you little snowflakes get triggered and went into a fit and started trashing Kapanen.
What's wrong with you?

I didn't miss the point. I'm saying that your point is not founded in any real manner. Just because you can isolate some instances of players moving from one team to another and diminishing in quality doesn't mean that that is the norm. It isn't. A player who is a top four is going to remain top four in many more instances than not until they hit their athletic downside. Now you can attempt to make an argument that Braun is approaching his but I doubt those that watch him are going to agree with that sort of sentiment.

As for how many times, I'm sure there's plenty. There's also plenty more where they don't regret it later because getting a known quality is better for competing GM's than those that are still on the precipice of busting. I guarantee you if Dubas was offered Braun straight up for Kapanen from DW, he would have taken it in a heartbeat.

And now because I have consistently made arguments, you're now going to equate that to snowflakes getting triggered? Nobody but maybe one non-Sharks fan trashed Kapanen. That was something entirely made up by you. I never trashed Kapanen. Just because I don't think he's some special prospect doesn't mean I'm trashing him. You want to talk about snowflakes getting triggered. Look in the mirror. You have let something like we don't need or want Kapanen and don't think he's as valuable as Braun or that we don't think he's some special young player to mean that we're trashing him. Take your own advice and stop being a triggered snowflake, buddy. Ask yourself what's wrong with you and make sure you have your house in order before you start asking those ridiculous questions to other people.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd say you are sharing a minority opinion that contridicts what has been said publicly by coaches.

Either that or your lost and just winging it to try and back up your initial position.

Have you looked at any of his scouting reports from before pretty much last season? Much less a scouting report prior to him being a Leaf prospect? His two-way game was not a standout until he was asked to focus on it recently and did so to some extent.

 

[TAYGB52]

I didn't miss the point. I'm saying that your point is not founded in any real manner. Just because you can isolate some instances of players moving from one team to another and diminishing in quality doesn't mean that that is the norm. It isn't. A player who is a top four is going to remain top four in many more instances than not until they hit their athletic downside. Now you can attempt to make an argument that Braun is approaching his but I doubt those that watch him are going to agree with that sort of sentiment.

As for how many times, I'm sure there's plenty. There's also plenty more where they don't regret it later because getting a known quality is better for competing GM's than those that are still on the precipice of busting. I guarantee you if Dubas was offered Braun straight up for Kapanen from DW, he would have taken it in a heartbeat.

And now because I have consistently made arguments, you're now going to equate that to snowflakes getting triggered? Nobody but maybe one non-Sharks fan trashed Kapanen. That was something entirely made up by you. I never trashed Kapanen. Just because I don't think he's some special prospect doesn't mean I'm trashing him. You want to talk about snowflakes getting triggered. Look in the mirror. You have let something like we don't need or want Kapanen and don't think he's as valuable as Braun or that we don't think he's some special young player to mean that we're trashing him. Take your own advice and stop being a triggered snowflake, buddy. Ask yourself what's wrong with you and make sure you have your house in order before you start asking those ridiculous questions to other people.

I wish people like you talked to me like this in person! "Have your house in order" Take a lap, hero!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I wish people like you talked to me like this in person! "Have your house in order" Take a lap, hero!

You're proving to everyone that you are being the triggered snowflake that you were projecting on to others and lamenting in this thread because you couldn't handle a disagreement in evaluating Kapanen. And you wish people talked to you like this? This is a player evaluation discussion. Take it easy, buddy.

 

[Cotton]

Have you looked at any of his scouting reports from before pretty much last season? Much less a scouting report prior to him being a Leaf prospect? His two-way game was not a standout until he was asked to focus on it recently and did so to some extent.

I know, I even addressed that in a previous post, he had no two-way game to speak of.

 

[Groo]

How's his shot ?

 

[Dustin]

I don't think Kap has a ton of value outside of Toronto. He needs to string some NHL years together to be considered a valuable asset to other teams. He's got 10 points over half a seasons worth of games over 3 years. I doubt teams are going to pay based on potential at this point.

That being said not really interested in Braun as an acquisition. I'm not really concerned about our middle pairing and any guy we pair with Rielly is going to get a crap load of PK minutes. Well above the norm. Hainsey is obviously not the best choice but I'm not really interested somewhat in paying for upgrade unless it's a bonafide #1 coming back and that would take a lot more than this offer.

 

[Nolan11]

Shut this one down. We have zero need for Kap and would have trouble finding him a spot. No way we let Braun go in an all in year for something we don't really need. Change the offer to a first and a fourth and we might be more interested. Otherwise, close this puppy up

 

[RDubya]

I wouldn't say he's a strong 2-way player, he's an asset on the penalty kill due to his speed like Grabner, but I wouldn't be using him in a shutdown role. This is a big season for Kappy to show he can find his niche in the NHL.

ya I think Toronto would prefer to keep kapanen & the draft pick for the season and see how he does getting an actual shot on the team. he's worth it for those shorthanded breakaways, and seems to have a knack for scoring some pretty clutch goals (WJC gold medal OT winner, OT playoff winner v capitals, tied the game late in 3rd v pitts to help clinch playoffs, game 7 shorty v bruins in last years playoffs.) I'll be disappointed if they trade him anytime soon unless it's an overpayment by the other side which isn't going to happen. guy is sitll young and has played 55 games bouncing back and forth from the AHL due to the leafs forward depth, usually playing on the 4th line with players like dom moore. He would've for sure made the team last year if they didn't sign marleau.

 

[7even]

I didn't miss the point. I'm saying that your point is not founded in any real manner. Just because you can isolate some instances of players moving from one team to another and diminishing in quality doesn't mean that that is the norm. It isn't. A player who is a top four is going to remain top four in many more instances than not until they hit their athletic downside. Now you can attempt to make an argument that Braun is approaching his but I doubt those that watch him are going to agree with that sort of sentiment.

As for how many times, I'm sure there's plenty. There's also plenty more where they don't regret it later because getting a known quality is better for competing GM's than those that are still on the precipice of busting. I guarantee you if Dubas was offered Braun straight up for Kapanen from DW, he would have taken it in a heartbeat.

And now because I have consistently made arguments, you're now going to equate that to snowflakes getting triggered? Nobody but maybe one non-Sharks fan trashed Kapanen. That was something entirely made up by you. I never trashed Kapanen. Just because I don't think he's some special prospect doesn't mean I'm trashing him. You want to talk about snowflakes getting triggered. Look in the mirror. You have let something like we don't need or want Kapanen and don't think he's as valuable as Braun or that we don't think he's some special young player to mean that we're trashing him. Take your own advice and stop being a triggered snowflake, buddy. Ask yourself what's wrong with you and make sure you have your house in order before you start asking those ridiculous questions to other people.

Subtle lobster?

 

[YP44]

Leaf's aren't moving significant assets for Braun. A 2nd is about what they would be comfortable paying.

Where do you value Kap? I can't see his value being more than a 2nd

 

[harro92]

The Brain is a top 4 defender on the sharks yet might not be on another team argument can be used for Kapanen too or any player at all such a flawed argument

 

[McSuper]

I never said Kapanen is useless. I just implied that he doesn't exactly deserve much "respect" on these boards yet, as he hasn't done anything to earn it. I'm a Leaf fan but Jesus.....some Leaf fans overrate their mediocre guys so badly.

Still, no need to get hysterical.

This is the first time I agree with you . Kapanen doesn't move the needle when talking a top 4 defence man . He is a sweetener , a piece to give the other GM that little extra so he agrees to the trade .

 

[LucicAndChong]

This is the first time I agree with you . Kapanen doesn't move the needle when talking a top 4 defence man . He is a sweetener , a piece to give the other GM that little extra so he agrees to the trade .

lol kapanen may not be a center piece for a trade for a top 4 dman but he is worth more than a "sweetner"

 

[Baksfamous112]

lol kapanen may not be a center piece for a trade for a top 4 dman but he is worth more than a "sweetner"

No, he isn’t worth much. He’s got speed and that’s it.