Kadri vs Tavares, contracts and ramifications included

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Tavares AINEC. I don't even like him as player but come on.

 

[aufheben]

The Rangers have Zibanejad and need a good #2C. They can’t afford another massive contract at the moment. Strome would have to be dealt.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Panarin-Kadri-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil-Gauthier

 

[VC]

Bar none, Tavares is the better player.

If getting Tavares/Kadri for free with their current contracts. As canuck fan I take Kadri. Roster setup and salary structure Kadri just makes more sense. Already tight to the cap with some big contracts coming up, the extra 6.5 would come in handy elsewhere. Plus the sandpaper would fit perfect with Pettersson and Horvat and would really create flexibility.

No slight to Tavares the player, his contract just sucks. (even could of been worse if he took one of the richer deals)

 

[Master P]

Kadri. Guy plays with heart and passion.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I mean it may be different with the flat cap but considering what other centers got over the past 2 years on the open market (Hayes at 7.15 mil and Duchene at 8.00 mil) Tavares at 11.00 isn't bad at all.

Tavares, at the time of his signing, became the 2nd highest paid player in hockey behind only McDavid. I'd argue that you only sign someone to that type of contract if that player is actually the second best player in hockey (or at least Top 5).

That, IMO, is why it's a questionable deal. They paid the amount you'd expect for a perennial 100+ point, yearly Art Ross contender and instead got a guy closer to the mid 80's in points who finishes outside the top 10 in scoring more than he does inside it.

I think rationalizing the "value" of it by comparing it to other questionable signings is also misguided. If a middle six forward who doesn't score more than about 35 points per year signs for $5 million per season, you can't justify the contract by saying in comparison to guys like Lucic, Ericksson, Ladd, it's not a bad deal.

 

[Fatass]

Tavares, at the time of his signing, became the 2nd highest paid player in hockey behind only McDavid. I'd argue that you only sign someone to that type of contract if that player is actually the second best player in hockey (or at least Top 5).

That, IMO, is why it's a questionable deal. They paid the amount you'd expect for a perennial 100+ point, yearly Art Ross contender and instead got a guy closer to the mid 80's in points who finishes outside the top 10 in scoring more than he does inside it.

I think rationalizing the "value" of it by comparing it to other questionable signings is also misguided. If a middle six forward who doesn't score more than about 35 points per year signs for $5 million per season, you can't justify the contract by saying in comparison to guys like Lucic, Ericksson, Ladd, it's not a bad deal.

I think Dubas signed the big dollar to JT (and others on his roster) because he was counting on a rising cap to cover lost value in a couple years. The Covid flat cap really hurts JT’s value relative to a guy like Kadri, who is on an outstanding cap cost.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tavares, at the time of his signing, became the 2nd highest paid player in hockey behind only McDavid. I'd argue that you only sign someone to that type of contract if that player is actually the second best player in hockey (or at least Top 5).

That, IMO, is why it's a questionable deal. They paid the amount you'd expect for a perennial 100+ point, yearly Art Ross contender and instead got a guy closer to the mid 80's in points who finishes outside the top 10 in scoring more than he does inside it.

I think rationalizing the "value" of it by comparing it to other questionable signings is also misguided. If a middle six forward who doesn't score more than about 35 points per year signs for $5 million per season, you can't justify the contract by saying in comparison to guys like Lucic, Ericksson, Ladd, it's not a bad deal.

You are also forgetting that San Jose was offering him $7 years and $13 million AAV, so at least Toronto got him at a discount. Even the Islanders were offering him 8 years and $11 million.

 

[VC]

You are also forgetting that San Jose was offering him $7 years and $13 million AAV, so at least Toronto got him at a discount. Even the Islanders were offering him 8 years and $11 million.

Just because there were worse offers out there doesn't make the one he signed a good one.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Just because there were worse offers out there doesn't make the one he signed a good one.

Considering Tavares took $2 million less compared to San Jose's offer, I think it's a good contract when you look at it from that point of view.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You are also forgetting that San Jose was offering him $7 years and $13 million AAV, so at least Toronto got him at a discount. Even the Islanders were offering him 8 years and $11 million.

No, I'm not forgetting that because you literally post the exact same thing every time to remind us. You missed my point, though. Just because another team is willing to give a player a certain contract doesn't suddenly make it a good deal. Montreal was rumored to also be interested in signing Jack Johnson when the Pens did. Doesn't suddenly mean signing Johnson was a good deal.

 

[VC]

Considering Tavares took $2 million less compared to San Jose's offer, I think it's a good contract when you look at it from that point of view.

Not really. I just wouldn't be an even worse contract. An 80-85 point centre isn't worth that much. 1st liner centre without doubt just not a top producer like contract says he should be.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Kadri + $7M

That cap space could buy them the help they need on the blue line.

 

[LeafsNation75]

No, I'm not forgetting that because you literally post the exact same thing every time to remind us. You missed my point, though. Just because another team is willing to give a player a certain contract doesn't suddenly make it a good deal. Montreal was rumored to also be interested in signing Jack Johnson when the Pens did. Doesn't suddenly mean signing Johnson was a good deal.

I don't remember anyone calling the Tavares deal a bad singing when it was announced what Toronto was paying him, where as with Jack Johnson it was said right away that Pittsburgh overpaid.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't remember anyone calling the Tavares deal a bad singing when it was announced what Toronto was paying him, where as with Jack Johnson it was said right away that Pittsburgh overpaid.

Then you were either ignoring all the comments or forgot about them.

 

[TS Quint]

I don't remember anyone calling the Tavares deal a bad singing when it was announced what Toronto was paying him, where as with Jack Johnson it was said right away that Pittsburgh overpaid.

Wow, what’s life like on the Leaf brainwashing bubble?

 

[Golden_Jet]

I don't remember anyone calling the Tavares deal a bad singing when it was announced what Toronto was paying him, where as with Jack Johnson it was said right away that Pittsburgh overpaid.

I remember lots saying overpayment, and the contract wouldn’t age well.

 

[lottster14]

Tavares contract is looking like a nightmare going forward considering how fast he's slowed down. Kadri a million times over

 

[wetcoast]

Well with hindsight it's Kadri for any rational fan. Kadri isn't any worse a player and probably brings more to the table than Tavares. Tavares may have him in offensive skills but Kadri pretty much takes him in every other category and has plenty of his own offensive skills. Lastly, that cap hit and well how anyone cannot choose Kadri is beyond me. Now if Matthews wasn't in Toronto I'd change my opinion but considering this is for 2C it's not close for me. Kadri in a walk not to mention he just screams heart and soul player.

The problem is that Kadri made huge mistakes in the playoffs for the Leafs and wasn't really very impact full when he played in the last 3 years.

Kadri has a better fit (and team) in Colorado much like ROR with the blues as apposed to the Sabers.

 

[ruaware41]

LMAO. Even with the contracts, it's Tavares and it's not even close.

It’s very easily Kadri. Tavares isn’t 2.5x better than Kadri. Kadri also does not appear to have anything that would suggest he has some kind of issue (not intending to hate on Tavares or accuse him of anything specific as someone who copes with something specific) that makes him awkward or tough to speak to. Seems like his teammates love him everywhere he goes and his opponents hate him. He’s especially not 2.5x better in the playoffs. Kadri was the one reason teams don’t laugh as hard at the idea of playing Toronto because of their perception of how soft they are. Tavares only adds to that perception. I’d say Kadri is a much better leader based on the energy he brings and appearing to have normal-great socialization skills. I don’t understand as an awkward person how someone so reserved can lead a hockey team

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Well Tavares is not 6.5M a year better than Kadri. Ramifications are obvious in a 81M cap.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Well Tavares is not 6.5M a year better than Kadri. Ramifications are obvious in a 81M cap.

How was Kyle Dubas supposed to know that on July 1, 2018 when he signed Tavares that there would be a $81 million cap because of a global pandemic in 2020 no one saw happening.

I know it's popular for a lot of people like you to shit on him for every decision he makes, but come that's going to far.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Kadri, obviously. Contract's aside; the fact is Tavares is not a 2nd line center, he is a 1st line center.
Contract wisely Leafs are at impossible situation; two first line centers signed through 23-24 & 24-25 for 22,6 million dollars, respectively.

Matthews #1 Kadri #2 > Matthews #1 Tavares #2

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Bar none, Tavares is the better player.

If getting Tavares/Kadri for free with their current contracts. As canuck fan I take Kadri. Roster setup and salary structure Kadri just makes more sense. Already tight to the cap with some big contracts coming up, the extra 6.5 would come in handy elsewhere. Plus the sandpaper would fit perfect with Pettersson and Horvat and would really create flexibility.

No slight to Tavares the player, his contract just sucks. (even could of been worse if he took one of the richer deals)

This one is not about which one is the better player thou.
Edit: never mind...

 

[Samsquanch]

How was Kyle Dubas supposed to know that on July 1, 2018 when he signed Tavares that there would be a $81 million cap because of a global pandemic in 2020 no one saw happening.

I know it's popular for a lot of people like you to shit on him for every decision he makes, but come that's going to far.

I mean its not like Toronto's cap nightmare came right out of left field...their situation was a like a slow moving train accident that basically everyone predicted would happen.

Yeah if Covid didnt happen and the cap didnt flatline their situation would not be as dire. But the Leafs pushed all in when they signed Tavares, and the risk was always there that they could be completely handcuffed because of it. Only Dubas seemed convinced it was not going to be a problem.

He rolled the dice and got snake eyes though, unfortunately. The window to win started the day JT signed, and wont be open forever. The cap will get ya....

So until his team does anything noteworthy he will have to own up to the hard questions coming at him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

How was Kyle Dubas supposed to know that on July 1, 2018 when he signed Tavares that there would be a $81 million cap because of a global pandemic in 2020 no one saw happening.

I know it's popular for a lot of people like you to shit on him for every decision he makes, but come that's going to far.

You make it sound like signing Tavares only NOW is affecting their cap situation because of the pandemic. His signing already had a massive impact on Toronto's cap situation even before this past season began, which was close to a full year before the whole flat cap due to COVID thing.