Jvr $ (underated or overrated)

[Bullseye]

His value should be at it's peak this offseason. Sell high is my thinking. We need defence prospects or legit draft choices.

A 7 year contract for a winger is just not learning from the past. 5 years is the max. Then pray he doesn't get injured every other season, oh wait...

 

[Leafs24Seven*]

JVR is extremely underrated around here, the guy is a very good top 6 and brings leadership to a young team. With that said i would not break the bank or offer crazy years but if he loves playing in Tor and wants to stay, 4-5 years with a cap hit of 5mil per and no NTC or NMC involved. If he won't take it, trade him at the deadline or even this summer.

 

[DD03]

Under-rated in what sense?

The guy has shown up for like 2 games in the past 10 and everyone is blowin up about him.

If he showed some consistency game to game, he'd play more. He literally only plays PP because of his ability in front of the net, and that's where most of his minutes come from.

He's probably got one of the worst defensive work ethics in the league. Watch him.

 

[hotpaws]

JVR is extremely underrated around here, the guy is a very good top 6 and brings leadership to a young team. With that said i would not break the bank or offer crazy years but if he loves playing in Tor and wants to stay, 4-5 years with a cap hit of 5mil per and no NTC or NMC involved. If he won't take it, trade him at the deadline or even this summer.

You say he's extremely underated on this board then turn around and want to sign him to a low ball offer with no nmc/ntc.

Why the **** would he sign a deal like that , especially if he's as good as you say he is ?

 

[taurine330]

Happy to see JvR stepping up finally. But my stance stands. There is 82 games on the season. Sell him high this off-season.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Under-rated in what sense?

The guy has shown up for like 2 games in the past 10 and everyone is blowin up about him.

If he showed some consistency game to game, he'd play more. He literally only plays PP because of his ability in front of the net, and that's where most of his minutes come from.

He's probably got one of the worst defensive work ethics in the league. Watch him.

Under-rated in that he's a real deal 1st line LW who's offensive output is very consistent, top 15 scorer at the position by points or pts/game: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,50&sort=pointsPerGame

He's not a franchise player, like a guy who you'd expect to carry the team night in and night out, but if he's carrying the team for 20% of the games that's a pretty excellent player to have on your team imo

His year-to-year offensive output is incredibly consistent, you always know what you're going to get with him - if he plays 80 games, he's going to have ~27-30 goals and ~56-62 pts

This year, he played 2:24 of PP time per game, and 13:26 of 5v5 time per game, so it's very untrue that most of his minutes are PP - a little over 15% of his total time on ice, well within normal parameters for a 1st line winger. He actually ranks much lower in pp toi/game than he does in scoring (pts total or pts/game) for players at his position - 32nd in pp toi/gp, 9th in points and 14th in pts/game for LW's. He also ranks 16th in both 5v5 pts total and pts/game for LW's across the league
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...lter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=ppTimeOnIcePerGame
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...17&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=pointsPerGame

in terms of defense, he looks lazy, but the mearurable effect of having him on the ice is quite positive, positive CF%, CF%RelTM and FF%RelTM and a basically neutral FF%. He does it in a high-event manner, his line outproduces their defensive deficiencies in a shot attempt sense, but is it really fair to expect a 1st line scoring winger to be a defensive stalwart too? There's not a lot of those around, and guys whose strengths exceed their weaknesses, like JVR, are valuable too
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...wards&minutes=50&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

 

[nuck]

He isn't under rated, he just isn't a valuable on this team as he would be on clubs that don't have five 60pt forwards. If they had only Matthews and Kadri up from I doubt there would be any talk of trading him, and no cap related need to, but it is what it is. This club has a ton of firepower and still just barely squeaked into the playoffs. There needs to be changes to become a contender and extending JVR into his declining years isn't they way to get there. If he played a way different game with grinding physicality and fiery leadership you would find a way to keep him perhaps but he sort of the same as five other attacking forwards they have.

39 forwards had 60 or more points this year and the Leafs have 5 of them, but they are still 14th overall and 1 point out of being 18th overall. He would be the number 2 scorer on Anaheim and the number 3 scorer on San Jose, Chicago, or Washington. His cost to retain doesn't reflect the clubs need to have him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm pretty sure that JVR is either overrated or underrated. And his value is either at high point or a low point. Other than that, I really don't know

 

[Menzinger]

I do think his trade value will be higher than some claim - ie Bobby Ryan managed to return quite the haul

 

[bunjay]

He isn't under rated, he just isn't a valuable on this team as he would be on clubs that don't have five 60pt forwards.

Two of our 60 points forwards played with JVR. They didn't get those points despite him. He's a crucial part of our PP success.

He may disappear for stretches, most players do. But you can never say he doesn't show up for big games. It seems the greater the importance, the better he plays.

 

[Puckstuff]

If we can get value for him now, it's a no brainer. This interests me.

1) top prospect that can be top 6 winger on an ELC contract in 1-2 years. (In 2019-20, we will need the cap space) Even guys like Brown will want 3-3.5 million, so having players on an ELC is always very valuable. Example, a guy like Connor Brown, Kappenen, or Leivo to a team like Chicago (today) is worth A LOT.
2) top prospect that can be a top 4 d-man.
3) Current top 4 d-man, under 28.

 

[Leafs24Seven*]

Great observation but i would not say he disappears a lot, he just plays such a calm game that he is not noticed for his contributions all the time, calm, cool and collective type of player but still a very good top 6 player that most teams would love to have. It is a long season and yes most players take a night off here and there, even JVR but nowhere near as much as ppl seem to think. You do not get 60 plus points in today's NHL by taking many nights off. You are correct about him always showing up for the big games.

Like i said, if he loves playing in TOR like i assume he really does, then give him a 4-5 year deal at 5 max. His leadership and experience is great for the kids while they mature the next couple of seasons. If he wont take the hometown discount, then you trade him this summer or trade deadline next spring.

Preferably offer a nice contract before the draft and if he refuses, try to trade him then. In a perfect world, he re-signs and remains a huge part of our top 6 the next few years but his contract cannot handicap the salary cap pertaining to the raises all the youngsters will be getting in a cpl years, either.

Two of our 60 points forwards played with JVR. They didn't get those points despite him. He's a crucial part of our PP success.

He may disappear for stretches, most players do. But you can never say he doesn't show up for big games. It seems the greater the importance, the better he plays.

 

[Tak7]

Great observation but i would not say he disappears a lot, he just plays such a calm game that he is not noticed for his contributions all the time, calm, cool and collective type of player but still a very good top 6 player that most teams would love to have. It is a long season and yes most players take a night off here and there, even JVR but nowhere near as much as ppl seem to think. You do not get 60 plus points in today's NHL by taking many nights off. You are correct about him always showing up for the big games.
r.

Because he doesn't contribute anything on those nights.

 

[Faltorvo]

Great observation but i would not say he disappears a lot, he just plays such a calm game that he is not noticed for his contributions all the time, calm, cool and collective type of player but still a very good top 6 player that most teams would love to have. It is a long season and yes most players take a night off here and there, even JVR but nowhere near as much as ppl seem to think. You do not get 60 plus points in today's NHL by taking many nights off. You are correct about him always showing up for the big games.

Like i said, if he loves playing in TOR like i assume he really does, then give him a 4-5 year deal at 5 max. His leadership and experience is great for the kids while they mature the next couple of seasons. If he wont take the hometown discount, then you trade him this summer or trade deadline next spring.

Preferably offer a nice contract before the draft and if he refuses, try to trade him then. In a perfect world, he re-signs and remains a huge part of out top 6 the next few years but his contract cannot handicap the salary cap pertaining to the raises all the youngsters will be getting in a cpl years, either.

only your 9th post? and you come up with this absolute gem?

well done sir

, very well done

 

[Leafs24Seven*]

More third grade mentality on HF? Some things never change, oy vey

But i have to ask, what does post count have to do with anything? Debate the post with your opinions instead of bashing someone because you feel superior based on # of posts. Been on many hockey forums for years and likely the combined post count is 5 times yours since you brought it up but i have never tried to discredit or talk down to a fellow fan especially a fan of a team we both love and cheer for when they were new at any place i have contributed to (btw been around HF for years) #growup

only your 9th post? and you come up with this absolute gem?

well done sir

, very well done

 

[taurine330]

More third grade mentality on HF? Some things never change, oy vey

But i have to ask, what does post count have to do with anything? Debate the post with your opinions instead of bashing someone because you feel superior based on # of posts. Been on many hockey forums for years and likely the combined post count is 5 times yours since you brought it up but i have never tried to discredit or talk down to a fellow fan especially a fan of a team we both love and cheer for when they were new at any place i have contributed to (btw been around HF for years) #growup

I don't think it was sarcasm.

 

[Damisoph]

overrated, underrated...who cares. He's a good player but not someone we can afford to give $6M+ over a long term contract. I would like to see us get some assets in return for him this summer.

 

[Daisy Jane]

More third grade mentality on HF? Some things never change, oy vey

But i have to ask, what does post count have to do with anything? Debate the post with your opinions instead of bashing someone because you feel superior based on # of posts. Been on many hockey forums for years and likely the combined post count is 5 times yours since you brought it up but i have never tried to discredit or talk down to a fellow fan especially a fan of a team we both love and cheer for when they were new at any place i have contributed to (btw been around HF for years) #growup

..... he was giving you a compliment.

 

[Gary Nylund]

More third grade mentality on HF? Some things never change, oy vey

But i have to ask, what does post count have to do with anything? Debate the post with your opinions instead of bashing someone because you feel superior based on # of posts. Been on many hockey forums for years and likely the combined post count is 5 times yours since you brought it up but i have never tried to discredit or talk down to a fellow fan especially a fan of a team we both love and cheer for when they were new at any place i have contributed to (btw been around HF for years) #growup

For someone who claims a hockey forum post count of over 75 000, you sure misinterpreted the hell out of his post.

 

[ShaneFalco]

overrated, underrated...who cares. He's a good player but not someone we can afford to give $6M+ over a long term contract. I would like to see us get some assets in return for him this summer.

That about sums it up

 

[Faltorvo]

More third grade mentality on HF? Some things never change, oy vey

But i have to ask, what does post count have to do with anything? Debate the post with your opinions instead of bashing someone because you feel superior based on # of posts. Been on many hockey forums for years and likely the combined post count is 5 times yours since you brought it up but i have never tried to discredit or talk down to a fellow fan especially a fan of a team we both love and cheer for when they were new at any place i have contributed to (btw been around HF for years) #growup

something was lost in translation

i was agreeing with you

 

[BlueBaron]

Under-rated in that he's a real deal 1st line LW who's offensive output is very consistent, top 15 scorer at the position by points or pts/game: http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,50&sort=pointsPerGame

He's not a franchise player, like a guy who you'd expect to carry the team night in and night out, but if he's carrying the team for 20% of the games that's a pretty excellent player to have on your team imo

His year-to-year offensive output is incredibly consistent, you always know what you're going to get with him - if he plays 80 games, he's going to have ~27-30 goals and ~56-62 pts

This year, he played 2:24 of PP time per game, and 13:26 of 5v5 time per game, so it's very untrue that most of his minutes are PP - a little over 15% of his total time on ice, well within normal parameters for a 1st line winger. He actually ranks much lower in pp toi/game than he does in scoring (pts total or pts/game) for players at his position - 32nd in pp toi/gp, 9th in points and 14th in pts/game for LW's. He also ranks 16th in both 5v5 pts total and pts/game for LW's across the league
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...lter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=ppTimeOnIcePerGame
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...17&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,&sort=pointsPerGame

in terms of defense, he looks lazy, but the mearurable effect of having him on the ice is quite positive, positive CF%, CF%RelTM and FF%RelTM and a basically neutral FF%. He does it in a high-event manner, his line outproduces their defensive deficiencies in a shot attempt sense, but is it really fair to expect a 1st line scoring winger to be a defensive stalwart too? There's not a lot of those around, and guys whose strengths exceed their weaknesses, like JVR, are valuable too
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...wards&minutes=50&disp=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC

Yeah no point using logic here, the same handful of people have been singing trade JVR for ages now ignoring every rebuttal to their flimsy reasons.

What our LW looks like without him because we can just convert one of our prospects and make him a first liner even though none project to be.

The imaginary contract he is going to require because our team is so prone to overpaying people and signing bad contacts like the Rielly and Kadri ones.

Because he is the only way to get a Defenseman overlooking expansion options, free agency and the draft.

Size is useless and in no way helps a team. This one usually exposes the guys who have never played a contact sport in their lives.

Veteran experience and a great playoff history are worthless because they do not matter in video games.

On top of all this our management team has stuck with him and made him unavailable unless they get a "can't say no offer". So maybe these guys who seem to know how to run a hockey team are on to something?

Nah, trade him, we need to kill our LW and get a shiny new toy or some draft picks.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Sooooo in saying that, you pay him what? At what point is it crazy to sign him?
And who said we'd trade him for draft picks? A "shiny new toy" could be a good d-man

 

[Znith]

Can teams make trades after the playoffs but before the expansion draft?

If so, I could see the Leafs finding trading partners in Anaheim and Minnesota - both will have a hard time protecting all of their D.

 

[Leafs24Seven*]

My apologies, with the question mark it seemed like sarcasm and i guess i was a little tired posting at 4am. I stopped posting a cpl years back because of all the kids on here or posters that acted like little kids and recently decided to give it another try and thats what i ran into after 2 days and thought to myself nothing changes but yes i read that wrong and i am sorry for going on a rant towards you. My gift to make it up to you is a Leafs win tonight (fingers crossed), ok how about a virtual handshake if that does not work out? Lol... GO LEAFS GO!

something was lost in translation

i was agreeing with you