Jvr $ (underated or overrated)

[Daisy Jane]

complete and utter hog wash

[/B]

again, full blown hog wash

because?

 

[Faltorvo]

because?

20m in dead cap space

3 important UFAs to make calls on, Use em or lose em, do they move any of JVR/Bozak/Koma for picks or players that don't impact as much right now , but long term they do and have contract control

7/8 sophomores +

very possibly 4/5 rooks
Leivo
Kappy
valiev
Goat
Liepsic
Neilson
Dermott
Scrivens

^
i easily see 3/4 of those names on the roster next year.

i doubt management will be going in big(ufa) or risk losing asset value of those 3 for a cup contending push next season.

now the 2018/19 season is 100% different

cap is cleaned up , only 1 UFA to make a call on (gards) and your sparking your powder on a core of 3rd year pro s and a D core at the right age/exp Reils/zait/gards/carrick

patience will be a virtue , 1 more year of growth/exp and fixing the old mess and then the stars align.

 

[Daisy Jane]

20m in dead cap space

3 important UFAs to make calls on, Use em or lose em, do they move any of JVR/Bozak/Koma for picks or players that don't impact as much right now , but long term they do and have contract control

7/8 sophomores +

very possibly 4/5 rooks
Leivo
Kappy
valiev
Goat
Liepsic
Neilson
Dermott
Scrivens

^
i easily see 3/4 of those names on the roster next year.

i doubt management will be going in big(ufa) or risk losing asset value of those 3 for a cup contending push next season.

now the 2018/19 season is 100% different

cap is cleaned up , only 1 UFA to make a call on (gards) and your sparking your powder on a core of 3rd year pro s and a D core at the right age/exp Reils/zait/gards/carrick

patience will be a virtue , 1 more year of growth/exp and fixing the old mess and then the stars align.

okay. but he didn't say cup-contending push. he said, (basically) next year shouldn't be about "rebuilding" it should be about competing. and I think we can agree that there is a lot of wiggle room between building/competing and competing/cup contending.

I would be very surprised if the Leafs replicated this season and added say several rookies onto this roster ontop of all the second year players. if this year's mandate was to ensure they were playing meaningful hockey come March/April, that's always going to be there, to keep the team always striving to make the playoffs (for development/mental/expectation sake, not just so we can be one and done, which - i do agree with).

I don't think the Leafs will go out and be insane - but I do think it will be naive to think that they will not try and support this team and see where they will go. they did make an offer for Stamkos after all and as much as people are like "phew he missed it." - I think it indicates that they will supplement the team with talent (from any angle) when the opportunity presents itself.

I also think - the kids deserve to see moves in the off-season that show that they are being believed in. It does start to waver on a fine line - do you anticipate a second year dropoff? (I don't know, because most of us anticipated a rookie wall, and you could argue the only person who hit it was Mitch - and I wonder if most of his "wall" was due to fighting Strep throat for the month).

There are also a lot of metrics that show the leafs were lucky (in some aspects - health) and a LOT unlucky in others (shootouts/overtimes). so those two could easily flip, and we could deal with over 300 MGL's but. be unbeatable in the shootout/overtime, and then where are we?

Personally, I feel that the leafs will be making trades this summer that may make some people angry (like most moves make them angry until it's (always) oh wait, now i see)." (and ditto come TDL). but I underestimated this team this year. I'm not going to do it again next year. i think even with a step back - they are more than capable of turning heads positively, and management will support that.

 

[al secord]

I wanted him traded at the deadline. That would've been a mistake, in hindsight.

I also believe that he's earned a retirement contract. I just hope it isn't with us.

 

[Once]

Not much of a prediction, but he should be leading our offence in the post-season.

As for this off-season, I am not sure we have adequate depth to replace his skill set. He would create a massive hole if traded. I would look to move Bozak above all.

 

[Faltorvo]

okay. but he didn't say cup-contending push. he said, (basically) next year shouldn't be about "rebuilding" it should be about competing. and I think we can agree that there is a lot of wiggle room between building/competing and competing/cup contending.

I would be very surprised if the Leafs replicated this season and added say several rookies onto this roster ontop of all the second year players. if this year's mandate was to ensure they were playing meaningful hockey come March/April, that's always going to be there, to keep the team always striving to make the playoffs (for development/mental/expectation sake, not just so we can be one and done, which - i do agree with).

I don't think the Leafs will go out and be insane - but I do think it will be naive to think that they will not try and support this team and see where they will go. they did make an offer for Stamkos after all and as much as people are like "phew he missed it." - I think it indicates that they will supplement the team with talent (from any angle) when the opportunity presents itself.

I also think - the kids deserve to see moves in the off-season that show that they are being believed in. It does start to waver on a fine line - do you anticipate a second year dropoff? (I don't know, because most of us anticipated a rookie wall, and you could argue the only person who hit it was Mitch - and I wonder if most of his "wall" was due to fighting Strep throat for the month).

There are also a lot of metrics that show the leafs were lucky (in some aspects - health) and a LOT unlucky in others (shootouts/overtimes). so those two could easily flip, and we could deal with over 300 MGL's but. be unbeatable in the shootout/overtime, and then where are we?

Personally, I feel that the leafs will be making trades this summer that may make some people angry (like most moves make them angry until it's (always) oh wait, now i see)." (and ditto come TDL). but I underestimated this team this year. I'm not going to do it again next year. i think even with a step back - they are more than capable of turning heads positively, and management will support that.

he said

contend in one post and time to compete in the other

idk about you but thats strong/deep PO talk to me

i believe leivo will see playing time when JVR is gone, so thats 1 rook

goat will fill boyles role, now we have 2 rooks

valiev will fill hunwiks or 7th D role, 3 rooks

if bozak goes, so they can shift nylander to C , here comes kappy as a O winger, up to 4 rooks now

they will either sign JVR/Bozak/koma or flip them by the TD, this management group won't let all those assets walk for nothing.

they have made their case very clear several times

"just getting into the POs" is not the goal

building something here long term is


i would argue those 3 walking goes against that mantra.

as a matter of fact, my gut tells me that jvr/bozak will be addressed this summer, one way or the other.


i think they will ink uncle leo.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I top out at 6x6.

Anything higher will make me a little sick(s).

 

[Daisy Jane]

he said

contend in one post and time to compete in the other

idk about you but thats strong/deep PO talk to me

i believe leivo will see playing time when JVR is gone, so thats 1 rook

goat will fill boyles role, now we have 2 rooks

valiev will fill hunwiks or 7th D role, 3 rooks

if bozak goes, so they can shift nylander to C , here comes kappy as a O winger, up to 4 rooks now

they will either sign JVR/Bozak/koma or flip them by the TD, this management group won't let all those assets walk for nothing.

they have made their case very clear several times

"just getting into the POs" is not the goal

building something here long term is


i would argue those 3 walking goes against that mantra.

as a matter of fact, my gut tells me that jvr/bozak will be addressed this summer, one way or the other.


i think they will ink uncle leo.

Fal i love you, lol but would it hurt to write in paragraphs?!

I don't know or think leivo will be here. I don't think babcock jives with him. I love Freddy, but I dont think we can dismiss Boyle walking away. that's what makes things so interesting. it might not just be "and insert more rookies here." it could, don't get me wrong - but it might not be at the same time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

okay. but he didn't say cup-contending push. he said, (basically) next year shouldn't be about "rebuilding" it should be about competing. and I think we can agree that there is a lot of wiggle room between building/competing and competing/cup contending.

I would be very surprised if the Leafs replicated this season and added say several rookies onto this roster ontop of all the second year players. if this year's mandate was to ensure they were playing meaningful hockey come March/April, that's always going to be there, to keep the team always striving to make the playoffs (for development/mental/expectation sake, not just so we can be one and done, which - i do agree with).

I don't think the Leafs will go out and be insane - but I do think it will be naive to think that they will not try and support this team and see where they will go. they did make an offer for Stamkos after all and as much as people are like "phew he missed it." - I think it indicates that they will supplement the team with talent (from any angle) when the opportunity presents itself.

I also think - the kids deserve to see moves in the off-season that show that they are being believed in. It does start to waver on a fine line - do you anticipate a second year dropoff? (I don't know, because most of us anticipated a rookie wall, and you could argue the only person who hit it was Mitch - and I wonder if most of his "wall" was due to fighting Strep throat for the month).

There are also a lot of metrics that show the leafs were lucky (in some aspects - health) and a LOT unlucky in others (shootouts/overtimes). so those two could easily flip, and we could deal with over 300 MGL's but. be unbeatable in the shootout/overtime, and then where are we?

Personally, I feel that the leafs will be making trades this summer that may make some people angry (like most moves make them angry until it's (always) oh wait, now i see)." (and ditto come TDL). but I underestimated this team this year. I'm not going to do it again next year. i think even with a step back - they are more than capable of turning heads positively, and management will support that.

Nicely put. We made the playoffs, with all our young talent a year older and wiser,we just might be a substantially better team next year. Maybe not quite ready to win the cup but it's not out of the question. It's not a question of either/or, win the cup now or rebuild mode, it's the 5 year plan that changes every day and you roll with each new day as it comes. We're "wiggling" somewhere in between rebuild mode and win now mode - in general, we're still building long term but we're already a playoff team and if we expect to be better next year, then we are "competing now" no matter how you look at it.

Fal i love you, lol but would it hurt to write in paragraphs?!

I don't know or think leivo will be here. I don't think babcock jives with him. I love Freddy, but I dont think we can dismiss Boyle walking away. that's what makes things so interesting. it might not just be "and insert more rookies here." it could, don't get me wrong - but it might not be at the same time.

Exactly. It's possible that we ship out some veteran players and get some veteran players back, stranger things have happened. And we had pretty good success with a bazillion rookies this season who won't be rookies next year. I see no reason why we couldn't introduce 3-4 rookies into the lineup next year pretty seamlessly - they'll have tons of support from guys that just went through it this season.

That's a beautiful thing actually, leadership was a huge concern, going into this season our main leader was Babcock, after that there was an enormous drop to the next most important leader whichever player it was and who was it? Rielly? Kadri? Bozak? JVR? Polak? Gardiner? Going into next season we all of a sudden have no shortage of leaders IMO, Kadri has stepped up as a leader, Matthews and Marner both have leadership qualities as does Rielly and then there's guys like Brown and even Hyman that new rookies can look to for guidance. These guys have all established themselves as professionals and they will be adding some playoff experience to their resume as well which really helps a ton. Nope, I don't think this team should have any problem at all bring a few more rookies into the fold.

 

[Lainethescourgeofgod*]

It's going to come down to what JVR demands. You'd like to think he may leave money on the table to be potentially part of something greater down the line(Toronto going for a cup). . I highly doubt this happens, sadly.

At what price and term can the Leafs sign him for and still build a better blue line while retaining the rookies ? Is 6million too much ? Even before this year I thought Kadri was more valuable than JVR. A similar contract to Naz would be the only way I'd retain JVR. We are talking different situations tho, correct ? Rfa vs Ufa I think.

 

[despotic]

I'd give him 6M x 5 with a clause in the contract that he has to keep his mouth guard in his mouth or in his hand at all times. He makes me want to slap that mouth guard off his face sometimes.

 

[Ulysses31]

IMO which isnt an option the correct answer is ride him out till hes a UFA and let another team overpay.

He will be plAying his hary out fkr next contrAct so let it be for the leafs for some playoff sucess this year and the next.

PS if course if a fair offer comes deal but if not embrace what the leafs have for the time they have it

 

[34]

$6M @ 5 years is good. JVR is insanely underrated on here by fans of other teams.

 

[Dirty Dan]

sign him and trade bozak please, move nylander to C

we have enough guys hungry to play the wings without hyman taking up space

 

[Kiwi]

$6M @ 5 years is good. JVR is insanely underrated on here by fans of other teams.

He's as streaky as ****

I'm not keen on giving a one dimensional streaky JVR 6M he's not worth that type of contract 75% of the time
Never mind the fact he's had injury problems in previous seasons and he's getting older

I'd rather put 6M towards the defense

 

[Barilko14]

$6M @ 5 years is good. JVR is insanely underrated on here by fans of other teams.

Guarantee we will be paying for declining years in that contract though.

Right around the time we'll need all the capspace we can manage.

 

[The Kessel Run]

I have been very pleased with how JVR has played the 2nd half of the season....he's also disappeared very little this year compared to past seasons. I still think we look to move him in the off-season or, at the very least, by next year's deadline. We have too many Top-6 wingers in the pipeline and could really fill a need by swapping him.

That being said, I think he is a major leader in our series with the Caps.

 

[Tak7]

$6M @ 5 years is good. JVR is insanely underrated on here by fans of other teams.

He's overrated by people who only look at his stat sheet, and don't see him mailing it in several nights a week.

 

[Maple Leaf Forever]

It has been rumoured for quite some time the Leafs were entertaing offers on Jvr.....doesn't seem to be a market for him ...his contract and numbers are good ...so why? I feel it's on alot of nights he seems to mail it in ......I wouldn't be giving him a long term deal....we need Dman ..trade him.

 

[Battle Lin]

well last year wingers 4-5 years older, and not even as good as jvr got 7 years...hes getting 6 at very least, and will get 7 somewhere

 

[BlueBaron]

It has been rumoured for quite some time the Leafs were entertaing offers on Jvr.....doesn't seem to be a market for him ...his contract and numbers are good ...so why? I feel it's on alot of nights he seems to mail it in ......I wouldn't be giving him a long term deal....we need Dman ..trade him.

I have never heard we were offering, it has usually been he is not available or only available for a knock your socks off offer. So when you at not selling how would you know there is no market? You wouldn't, everything you just said is fiction.

One thing I will say is his size adds to the perception he is not trying, people said the same thing about Mats back in the day, but if you can get 29 goals without trying I'd keep you around on the off chance you tried one year and got 40

I think we extend him and keep Boyle and McBackup. We will probably add a D too but if that will be a FA or an expansion related trade is hard to say. Not many Marlies will have shots at jobs next year and we may have to trade some young guys soon just because of the logjam or the need to turn some of our wingers into a D.

I think we will act like a normal team this year doing what we can to get better, dumping more kids in place of veterans on a playoff team sends a bad signal to our Core.

 

[Menzinger]

I'd be very, very surprised if Leafs brass weren't planning on graduating at least 2-3 Marlies next year. The only way JVR makes it past the TDL is if they plan on resigning him.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I wanted him traded at the deadline. That would've been a mistake, in hindsight.

I also believe that he's earned a retirement contract. I just hope it isn't with us.

Agree with you. Looking at the Leafs even next year, the Leafs will need JVR at LW. And if he's playing well, he will be needed for the Leafs 2018 playoff run.

That being said, let him go in free agency. The Leafs will need the cap space and the Leafs have to hope some of their young Marlie wingers are NHL ready or maybe Kapanen plays left wing.

Seems to me Leaf fans are
1. seem to want to extend upcoming UFAs, with little regard to the players value
2. seem to have to trade UFAs cause "you can't let them walk for nothing" Sorry, the Leafs and all contending teams keep their upcoming UFAs cause it makes their team better.

 

[Faltorvo]

Agree with you. Looking at the Leafs even next year, the Leafs will need JVR at LW. And if he's playing well, he will be needed for the Leafs 2018 playoff run.

That being said, let him go in free agency. The Leafs will need the cap space and the Leafs have to hope some of their young Marlie wingers are NHL ready or maybe Kapanen plays left wing.

Seems to me Leaf fans are
1. seem to want to extend upcoming UFAs, with little regard to the players value
2. seem to have to trade UFAs cause "you can't let them walk for nothing" Sorry, the Leafs and all contending teams keep their upcoming UFAs cause it makes their team better.

i can't believe your kind of morons still exist

go back to your "own rental cave man world'" please just go away.

it's one thing to hold that mentality when our a bona fide cup contender

and complete idiocy to hold that with a team like this

 

[Faltorvo]

I'd be very, very surprised if Leafs brass weren't planning on graduating at least 2-3 Marlies next year. The only way JVR makes it past the TDL is if they plan on resigning him.

here is my dire concern

this organisation, old/new ownership---new/old management

has never ever done that at the TD if they are even just sniffing PO hopes.

I don't trust ownership or even this management on making that tough call

this is a "will believe it, when i see it"


get the 3 pending UFAs inked or traded this off season

they won't make the right call if we are sniffing a "just make it in PO spot"