Just Not Excited About 2016 / 2017

[NotWendell]

We'll all look back on this thread and laugh when Bjorkstrand pots 65 goals this year.

I know you're exaggerating about 65 goals, but I get your point. Bjork COULD give us 20-30 goals this year and that would be a big help!

 

[The Jones Zone]

I know you're exaggerating about 65 goals, but I get your point. Bjork COULD give us 20-30 goals this year and that would be a big help!

yes, we can draft 13th instead of top 3 again!

 

[MAHJ71]

Well as long as peddling tickets is acceptable in this thread, I have season tickets in Section 120, Row C, seats 5 & 6 directly behind the goalie. So the seats are really great. The team ........ well let's hope for the better.
But if anyone is interested in my seats for certain games, let me know.

Have you sold on Stubhub before? Feel like I've bought from you.

Last I saw he was still railing against the CBJ until I had to quit following him on Twitter.

He's still on twitter boasting about his 'well-placed team sources' ..

I'd love for a surprise year and a playoff run, but i won't get my hopes up. I think I would be a little more enthusiastic had we drafted Puljujarvi and got to see him develop this year in the NHL.

This!!!! I was pumped for Puljujarvi and even though I've warmed up to PLD its still hard knowing Jesse likely plays a lot in the NHL this year while PLD is back in Q.

I'm always excited about an upcoming season. These guys aren't robots or PS4 bits. Past results are never indicative of future results, IMO - good or bad.

The results were poor last season, but in no way do I look at the CBJ and feel that they're really the 27th best team in the league. I think they underperformed to their ability and never overcame the mental challenges from early in the season. If they can fix whatever's going on between their ears, I expect a much better result that more accurately fits the talent they've assembled.

I think they're neither as bad as last year or maybe as good as we thought last summer.

One thing's for sure, a camp under Torts, some experience and a infusion of young talent should help. I expect to be in the hunt for the playoffs.

Probably post of the thread. That optimism ain't so bad

 

[Boomshakalaka]

I think I would be more excited at the moment if we took a chance on Pirri or gagner. Basically right now we are sending in the same team we had 2 years prior. Really I am more excited to see what PTO S we will have. Yep... All in all this is pathetic if these are my hopes

 

[major major]

I think I would be more excited at the moment if we took a chance on Pirri or gagner. Basically right now we are sending in the same team we had 2 years prior. Really I am more excited to see what PTO S we will have. Yep... All in all this is pathetic if these are my hopes

I really don't see it. Our rookies are better than those guys. I bet Pirri/Gagner would need multiple injury openings to even make the roster.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

Yeah too much faith in our young guys has gotten us nowhere, not saying these guys gotta chance but what else do we got really if our guys don t perform. Trade away guys great but we re not doing enough to be competitive as of right now. Took the chance on pld he isn't playing this year so I think we need some interim guys 1 and 1 on o and d or this is the same conversation as last year. Just keeping in the faith of this thread but yeah I wanna see us take a chance or 2 for skme short contracts if we could get them

 

[stevo61]

Anderson is 22 and has 2 years in the AHL and Bjorkstrand is 21 and finished a full AHL where they went on to win the Calder Cup and that experience is huge. No reason to think they arent ready for the NHL in some capacity. Also Werenski is a big kid but is a pretty rare talent at that age and possibly even the most ready of the 3. Signing

 

[CBJx614]

I dont think they'll have a HUGE impact, but I think they will be good enough to show they belong, which is all we can ask for. 30+ points I dont think is out of the question for Bjorkstrand. Werenski i'm expecting 15+ pts(just being conservative) and solid defensive play with a few rookie mistakes and a slight learning curve.

And I see Anderson being a VERY solid bottom 6 player this season, I dont think 20+ points is out of the question for him either.

 

[major major]

Yeah too much faith in our young guys has gotten us nowhere, not saying these guys gotta chance but what else do we got really if our guys don t perform. Trade away guys great but we re not doing enough to be competitive as of right now. Took the chance on pld he isn't playing this year so I think we need some interim guys 1 and 1 on o and d or this is the same conversation as last year. Just keeping in the faith of this thread but yeah I wanna see us take a chance or 2 for skme short contracts if we could get them

If you look back to previous years I'm usually the one telling people to slow down the expectations for prospects. I'm not doing that this time because these rookies are more ready and we have the depth to replace them if need be.

We have 7 top-six forwards before you even include Bjorkstrand, and 4 top 4 D before you include Werenski. The insurance policy is already in place.

"We're not doing enough to be competitive" - The maturation of the kids already on the roster will do more for that than any UFA signing ever could. And the rookies will give us some lumps, I'm sure, but you're talking about Pirri and Gagner, two of the most one-dimensional players in the league, who I doubt would win a spot on a PTO.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

I really am only sold on bjorkstrand, Anderson I m sorry I am not really not just seeing as a bottom 6 this year consistently. Werenski I think is still just undeveloped to be consistant. Maybe pieces around them are too young also. We ll see

 

[EspenK]

I really don't see it. Our rookies are better than those guys. I bet Pirri/Gagner would need multiple injury openings to even make the roster.

Gagner is a .5 ppg guy for his career. You mean to tell me if he'd sign for a million or so you wouldn't slot him in as the "third line" center and drop Karlsson to 4th? Gives the Jackets a top 6 of Jenner-Dubi-Cam and Saad-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand. Third is Hartnell-Gagner-Foligno. Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson with Campbell & Clarkson upstairs. To me that makes the Jackets a better team than moving Dubois into the lineup too soon or moving Jenner to C.

 

[major major]

Gagner is a .5 ppg guy for his career. You mean to tell me if he'd sign for a million or so you wouldn't slot him in as the "third line" center and drop Karlsson to 4th? Gives the Jackets a top 6 of Jenner-Dubi-Cam and Saad-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand. Third is Hartnell-Gagner-Foligno. Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson with Campbell & Clarkson upstairs. To me that makes the Jackets a better team than moving Dubois into the lineup too soon or moving Jenner to C.

I don't think he can get .5 ppg from the third line, and we don't really have a vacancy on the powerplay for him to pile up some points. Gagner's gone downhill both in terms of his scoring rate and in terms of the opportunities coaches have been willing to give him. You're basically looking at a guy who would score maybe 25-30 pts from the third line, and play his usual weak two-way game. I think Karlsson can get those points and we know he won't be a liability defensively. Pushing Campbell to the press box would be great, but we've got any number of ways that could happen. For example, Dubois or Foligno/Jenner take the third line C spot, or Sedlak takes the 4th line C spot. I much prefer those scenarios to Sam Gagner.

I wouldn't be opposed to giving Gagner a camp tryout, I just don't think he'd ultimately win the job. And this is a really weird thing to have in a thread titled "just not excited...". You should really be "just not excited" if Gagner is in your lineup. That would say a lot about the depth of your hockey team.

 

[Boomshakalaka]

honestly what depth or pride are we salvaging here. We have been terrible. Either way we are a lottery team. Not excited about that till after the season. And maybe not even then. Just not excited about the same group taking the ice as last year with some rookie call ups.

 

[JacketsDavid]

We have 7 top-six forwards before you even include Bjorkstrand, and 4 top 4 D before you include Werenski. The insurance policy is already in place.

"We're not doing enough to be competitive" - The maturation of the kids already on the roster will do more for that than any UFA signing ever could. And the rookies will give us some lumps, I'm sure, but you're talking about Pirri and Gagner, two of the most one-dimensional players in the league, who I doubt would win a spot on a PTO.

Conversely you could say that we have one top line forward (Saad) and no d-man who deserves to be top pairing right now (Jones was -9 in 41 games here, Murray was meddling along until Jones arrived).

So we have a lot of 2nd-3rd pairing forwards and 2nd pairing d-men. Some have potential to be top line players (jenner, murray, jones), but we lack top line game changers at the moment.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I don't think we really know for sure what the FOs plans were. I don't think you can infer from their past moves that they were building around forward. The Gaborik trade? You don't get a good D for that kind of spare parts trade. Horton contract? That's second pair D money on the open market. The Saad trade? Pure opportunism, but you'll notice a team like Chicago never moves a guy like Hjalmarsson or Seabrook when they're in a crunch.

Look at last years payroll (beginning of year) and amount allocated to forwards vs. d-men. They also gambled on Bob being healthy and went cheap on a backup.
I mean it was clear to me how they were building last year - most resources to forwards and starting goalie. Minimal resources to backup goalie and just a bit on d-men (JJ, Tyutin).

Again my point is last year they were building a team built around forwards and a goalie, and they did not stress defense responsibility for the forwards as much as other teams.
Team flops in beginning, coach gets fired we hire a guy with a different philosophy who stresses more accountability defensively for the forwards. Best (most talented) offensive player gets traded for Seth Jones, and suddenly the focus of the new build is on the blue line.
Again I don't see that as great fore-sight by management. I see it as a team that failed and forced to change direction (coach, players, etc).

Again we'll disagree on this - but I have zero faith in the front office being as good as most other teams. They continually fail. That's the reason why I don't think the future is bright despite all the young talent.

 

[Nordique]

We have the pieces to make the playoffs, its just a matter of production and good health. Expectations really shouldn't be much different than the last 2 seasons tbh.

Goaltending is huge this season, nothing new about that.

So we have a lot of 2nd-3rd pairing forwards and 2nd pairing d-men. Some have potential to be top line players (jenner, murray, jones), but we lack top line game changers at the moment.

That's not far from the truth imo. But we've seen what that kind of roster can accomplish when there is solid goaltending behind them.

 

[hockey17jp]

That's insane.

But I agree, in a year or two we'll look back on this and say "man, those fans picked a really odd time to not be excited." It's easily the most talented roster we've ever had, and folks are upset we didn't get someone off of the scrap heap otherwise known as the UFA market.

Yeah I really don't understand why everyone is whining about the lack of FA moves. If Jarmo would have actually signed anyone it probably would have been to a high dollar long term deal and everyone on this board would have been livid.

 

[JacketsDavid]

That's not far from the truth imo. But we've seen what that kind of roster can accomplish when there is solid goaltending behind them.

I agree 100%. If Bob stays healthy and regains the Vezina form anything is possible. Just I highly doubt he can stay healthy (mostly) and regain his old form (more likely he could do this if healthy but not assured).

So yes an average roster can do great things with great tending.

 

[blahblah]

Dallas is like "man we could win the Cup if we have solid goaltending."

We're like "Man, if we vezina level goaltending we might not have the 4th worst record in the NHL and compete for one of those wild card spots."

Yeah, both of our defenses kind of suck horribly but why quibble?

I'm happy with a couple of additions but our defense has a long way to go before it's considered decent.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I was excited for a bit. Not excited anymore. It changes by the day and after reading some of these topics

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Dallas is like "man we could win the Cup if we have solid goaltending."

We're like "Man, if we vezina level goaltending we might not have the 4th worst record in the NHL and compete for one of those wild card spots."

Yeah, both of our defenses kind of suck horribly but why quibble?

I'm happy with a couple of additions but our defense has a long way to go before it's considered decent.

Change the Dallas coaching team and your goaltenders do not magically suck them in any more, although the offensive prowess might miss some recognition going forward. Lehtonen was perfectly fine in Sochi for a team which had defensive structure. Rask took over games in that team. I believe Bobrovski could have appeared good in that team.

Hell, Lehtonen is number two goalie for Finland yet not good enough for Dallas...

 

[major major]

honestly what depth or pride are we salvaging here. We have been terrible. Either way we are a lottery team. Not excited about that till after the season. And maybe not even then. Just not excited about the same group taking the ice as last year with some rookie call ups.

You seem to think bad teams become good teams by acquiring players from good teams.

That's not how it works. They become good teams by drafting and developing. There's a painful part to that - it's not pretty when your most talented players are still learning at the early part of their career arc. But in time they move up into their primes. "Same group taking the ice", sure.

 

[major major]

Conversely you could say that we have one top line forward (Saad) and no d-man who deserves to be top pairing right now (Jones was -9 in 41 games here, Murray was meddling along until Jones arrived).

So we have a lot of 2nd-3rd pairing forwards and 2nd pairing d-men. Some have potential to be top line players (jenner, murray, jones), but we lack top line game changers at the moment.

I don't disagree, we're thin at top, though there are a couple borderline cases. My post was in reference to "insurance" in case the rookies need to be replaced.

 

[major major]

Look at last years payroll (beginning of year) and amount allocated to forwards vs. d-men. They also gambled on Bob being healthy and went cheap on a backup.
I mean it was clear to me how they were building last year - most resources to forwards and starting goalie. Minimal resources to backup goalie and just a bit on d-men (JJ, Tyutin).

Again my point is last year they were building a team built around forwards and a goalie, and they did not stress defense responsibility for the forwards as much as other teams.
Team flops in beginning, coach gets fired we hire a guy with a different philosophy who stresses more accountability defensively for the forwards. Best (most talented) offensive player gets traded for Seth Jones, and suddenly the focus of the new build is on the blue line.
Again I don't see that as great fore-sight by management. I see it as a team that failed and forced to change direction (coach, players, etc).

Again we'll disagree on this - but I have zero faith in the front office being as good as most other teams. They continually fail. That's the reason why I don't think the future is bright despite all the young talent.

I think it's plausible they were really caught off guard by the decline in Tyutin and Wiz [edit: and they deserve flack for it]. I don't think it's plausible that they were trying to build an offense oriented team at the expense of the D. You can't do that without having MVP level forwards, and they're not stupid. Wrong, sure, but not stupid. And if your pet theories require them to be frequently moronic, well you probably have a bad theory.

With reference to the payroll - you might be right, but there are alternative explanations for the imbalance. I don't think they were thinking of it in terms of the relative payroll.

On F: Horton was a sunk cost, Umberger transformed into Hartnel, Dubi and Foligno had to be extended (there is no comparable UFA age D that matured in that time), and then on top of that Saad was an opportunity you can't pass up. I think if Saad happened first, the other moves might have been different.

On D: Wiz was done and shipped out (and fewf, did Jarmo ever save us a buck there). That left a gap before the next generation was ready (both in terms of payroll and ability).

With reference to the coaching - I don't believe Richie has ever been described as an offense-oriented coach. The players may have tuned him out, but the defensive philosophy wasn't lacking. Torts' patented turtling system worked better for us (it requires far less defensive smarts), but he's no more a defensive coach than Richie.

 

[theD86]

I do think & expect the Jackets to compete for a bottom playoff spot. IF guy's are on the ice and not IR