Just Not Excited About 2016 / 2017

[Viqsi]

I'm hoping that Johnson plays well enough that we could fill Edmontons needs for a D via trade and snag RNH.

Not going to happen; they need RHD and are already badly overstuffed on LHD. Would be like folks offering to address our having sent Johansen away by trading us a LW.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Picard and Filatov were also consensus picks. The CBJ were not criticized for making those picks until both players busted big time.

They weren't criticized for making the Brule pick either until he busted.

My point is that the people you want to give credit for wanting Kopitar also were in favor of plenty of players over the years that wound up being bad. Pointing to one time they might have been right (this "what if" scenario assumes Kopitar would have been good here which I don't think is a given) is pretty meaningless.

Sorry I just hate the "we could've had Kopitar if it wasn't for that meddling MacLean!!!!!" point that gets dusted off about every six months or so. I was at the draft party and fans were ECSTATIC about Brule. People forget he fell to Columbus because Montreal surprised with the Carey Price pick. The Brule pick was praised by fans and media and everyone had high hopes. It wasn't until years later that the behind the scenes story came out and everyone acts as if that's what they really wanted to happen all along. It's revisionist b.s. and it's only coming up because Kopitar has turned out to be good. We don't hear about the the bad players the scouts might have wanted and were overruled on.

 

[SuperGenius]

Hope springs eternal.

I know I am typically the more optimistic of this bunch, but does anyone really, truly believe that the CBJ are that bad? The results don't lie, but I just don't believe they're truly 27th in talent and potential. This team, with some confidence, can compete with anyone - I truly believe that. Maybe they break me this year, or maybe they prove me right, but I just can't see it any other way right now.

 

[Skraut]

They weren't criticized for making the Brule pick either until he busted.

I'll just leave this here

 

[Monk]

I know I am typically the more optimistic of this bunch, but does anyone really, truly believe that the CBJ are that bad? The results don't lie, but I just don't believe they're truly 27th in talent and potential. This team, with some confidence, can compete with anyone - I truly believe that. Maybe they break me this year, or maybe they prove me right, but I just can't see it any other way right now.

I'm with ye.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I know I am typically the more optimistic of this bunch, but does anyone really, truly believe that the CBJ are that bad? The results don't lie, but I just don't believe they're truly 27th in talent and potential. This team, with some confidence, can compete with anyone - I truly believe that. Maybe they break me this year, or maybe they prove me right, but I just can't see it any other way right now.

I believe after 82 games last year that showed what they were.

To be "average" they would need a lot of chips to fall right:
-A hot goaltender(s) for majority of season. Also keep in mid we had a hot goaltender for 20 game or so last season, so need 40+ games.
-You need a legit first line. To many if(s) there with a guy with just a handful of games penciled in as RW (Oliver), and either a converted forward or a 2C penciled in at first line C (Jenner or Dubi). Saad is solid, but a lot of question marks there.
-Will Jones and Murray progress to be top pairing dmen? Both have tremendous potential but Jones played half his games here and finished -9 on +/- and Murray looked locked into the 2nd/3rd pairing until Jones got here. Sometimes it takes dmen longer so it's a BIG assumption to assume they will both be ready next year.
-Kids: Can Werenerski play solid minutes? Can Anderson make the team and contribute on 3rd/4th lines? Can one of the young goalies step up when Bob (likely) gets hurt or give him enough rest to maybe keep him healthy? Can Dubois make the team and if so where (4th line C vs. 3rd line wing)?
-Can they survive the early part of schedule? IT's brutal and this team historically is mentally fragile.
-How will Torts do getting into camp late and how will he work with all the kids?

Positives:
-More depth/potential than we've ever had on the blue line.
-Couple young goalies who could push Bob.
-Quite a few forwards who could get 12+ goals, so lot of scoring depth.

 

[Sstroh84]

They weren't criticized for making the Brule pick either until he busted.

My point is that the people you want to give credit for wanting Kopitar also were in favor of plenty of players over the years that wound up being bad. Pointing to one time they might have been right (this "what if" scenario assumes Kopitar would have been good here which I don't think is a given) is pretty meaningless.

Sorry I just hate the "we could've had Kopitar if it wasn't for that meddling MacLean!!!!!" point that gets dusted off about every six months or so. I was at the draft party and fans were ECSTATIC about Brule. People forget he fell to Columbus because Montreal surprised with the Carey Price pick. The Brule pick was praised by fans and media and everyone had high hopes. It wasn't until years later that the behind the scenes story came out and everyone acts as if that's what they really wanted to happen all along. It's revisionist b.s. and it's only coming up because Kopitar has turned out to be good. We don't hear about the the bad players the scouts might have wanted and were overruled on.

You are missing my point. I am saying the consensus pick is not always the right pick using going against scouts to take Brule as an example. People seem to be having issues getting over them passing on Puljujarvi for who the scouts thought was better or projected to be better.

We can only go by what we hear in the media about most of these prospects. If I hired a group of scouts who saw all of these guys I could make an informed opinion. Fans were happy because the media told them to be happy. Similar to this situation now where fans are in shock cause the media had established a top 3 and they didn't pick one of them at 3.

Saying the scouts wanted Kopitar is not revisionist history. He turned out to be good in LA and I agree there is no way to know if he would have done that in Columbus.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

You are missing my point. I am saying the consensus pick is not always the right pick using going against scouts to take Brule as an example. People seem to be having issues getting over them passing on Puljujarvi for who the scouts thought was better or projected to be better.

We can only go by what we hear in the media about most of these prospects. If I hired a group of scouts who saw all of these guys I could make an informed opinion. Fans were happy because the media told them to be happy. Similar to this situation now where fans are in shock cause the media had established a top 3 and they didn't pick one of them at 3.

Saying the scouts wanted Kopitar is not revisionist history. He turned out to be good in LA and I agree there is no way to know if he would have done that in Columbus.

I get it.

I'm approaching this thread with a whole organization/history mindset, not focusing on a specific decision.

But I see what you're saying. I thought we sorted this whole PLB v. Puljujarvi thing out in another thread. Guess you weren't around for that one.
Cheers.

 

[Socks]

I lost my interest basically last year. Too much **** happening in my life and then to add the gong show on ice? No thanks. But I always give them a chance. And this season is going to be no different.

 

[Sstroh84]

I get it.

I'm approaching this thread with a whole organization/history mindset, not focusing on a specific decision.

But I see what you're saying. I thought we sorted this whole PLB v. Puljujarvi thing out in another thread. Guess you weren't around for that one.
Cheers.

Yeah, Haven't spent a lot of time reading some of those other threads.

There is a lot of reason for optimism with this team (Saad, Jenner, Jones, Murray, Werenski, Dubois, Bjork, etc.), but many continue to see the failures. The front office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore and I don't blame the fans. It needs to be earned back. Winning heals nearly all wounds. There are lots of wounds right now.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Ahhh yes the ol' Don Boyd: It Wasn't My Fault! Story.
Same scouts were responsible for plenty of bad picks -- Picard and Filatov are a pair that come to mind who were actually worse than Brule.

It's funny how the scouting seemed to do a complete 180 as soon as MacLean was out the door, despite the fact that I believe the entire scouting staff carried over.

None of us know to what extent MacLean meddled into things that were best left to the scouts.

 

[niflheim]

"Everything but sailing is unnecessary. It includes the whole life: wave base, wave crest, the dark cloud cattle of storm but there is also lots of serene gentle."

Juha Vainio. Kaikki paitsi purjehdus on turhaa.

I like Your northern optimism

Tulipunaruusu. Kaikki paitsi purjehdus ja sauna ( and a little bit whiskey) on turhaa

 

[NotWendell]

2012-2013: Not excited about the upcoming season = missed the playoffs on the final night of the season
2013-2014: Not excited about the upcoming season (but hopefully optimistic) = made the playoffs, won 2 games
2014-2015: Excited about the upcoming season = out of it by Thanskgiving
2015-2016: Excited about the upcoming season = out of it by end of October
2016-2017: Not excited about the upcoming season = ?

 

[Fred Glover]

I am not excited about the upcoming season because it is the middle of July, its weather. Ask me in September and I will be excited. Not now.

 

[blahblah]

I know I am typically the more optimistic of this bunch, but does anyone really, truly believe that the CBJ are that bad? The results don't lie, but I just don't believe they're truly 27th in talent and potential.

We were certainly a lot worse than we thought we were. I'm not down on the team, but I'm not expecting anything. There are a lot of questions with this team.

 

[JacketFanInFL]

I lost my interest basically last year. Too much **** happening in my life and then to add the gong show on ice? No thanks. But I always give them a chance. And this season is going to be no different.

I hear you. For years one sport has been dropping off every couple years as far as my interest level goes. First it was baseball, then NASCAR, and no hockey is basically falling off. I used to watch all the playoff games, but found them incredibly boring this year and actually drawn more to Nba games. Figure that one out.

The only thing that will likely never die for me is Buckeye football. I have deep emotional ties to that with my father.

 

[CBJFan827]

I'll just leave this here

There are no words.

 

[db2011]

My response must be qualified with the disclosure that I'm not now nor have ever been an STH. I no longer live in the city, and I've never had the means to buy season tix to anything! So maybe I'm not qualified to address the OP's sentiments; if so, thanks for your indulgence to anyone who reads this.

To the OP, I say you gotta suck it up! If you expect your team to be competitive every year, you'll be disappointed! If you attach your enthusiasm (as expressed by your buying season tix) to the success rate of your favorite team... well isn't that the definition of a bandwagoner?

I'm thinking now of John Adams, the guy who beats the drum at nearly every single Cleveland Indians game. They've been mediocre at best the past several seasons, but he's still there.

I'm not saying you gotta be irrationally enthusiastic about the Jackets in 2016-17. But you didn't need to make a thread about it- and what's more, the idea that you need a competitive team to justify your fandom doesn't seem like something Jackets fans should have to address.

Again, I'm not a Season-Ticket holder so the stakes are different for me. But if you're not excited... get excited!!!

 

[Crede777]

Most teams have highs and lows which is what keeps fans interested.

The Jackets have only had lows. If they'd had some success in the past, I would agree. But they haven't, and so should be treated like it.

 

[Old Guy]

Most teams have highs and lows which is what keeps fans interested.

The Jackets have only had lows. If they'd had some success in the past, I would agree. But they haven't, and so should be treated like it.

Agree, agree, agree.

But my mind goes to the next point......can you then just imagine what it will be like when that first magical deep run into the playoffs occurs.

That's not a question I am asking this forum. (ended it with a period). It is simply the question I ask myself in hopeful anticipation.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I'm thinking now of John Adams, the guy who beats the drum at nearly every single Cleveland Indians game. They've been mediocre at best the past several seasons, but he's still there.

I'm not saying you gotta be irrationally enthusiastic about the Jackets in 2016-17. But you didn't need to make a thread about it- and what's more, the idea that you need a competitive team to justify your fandom doesn't seem like something Jackets fans should have to address.

Here's the difference in my mind:
The Indians under John Hard had a plan. They signed a lot of young players to deals and had a nice run for a while. Not any championships but they won a lot of games.
Even now it's very apparent they have a plan - build around pitching. They have a lot of good, young arms. Their bats are suspect (and they are hoping to add one bat and hopefully get Brantley back) but they are producing.

Compare that to the CBJ. Last off-season our plan was built around the forwards and Bob. Didn't care about the D - witnessed by not addressing it in the off-season with the hope that Murray would step up. Forward to last season and the D was terrible, Bob sucked and the forwards weren't scoring. So team fires the coach, trades their best offensive forward and now we're building around the blue line. Does that sound like a team with a good long-term plan or a team just being opportunistic? Listen being opportunistic can be effective, but it never makes you great. Being strategic makes you great.
This team/FO/management is in a corner. They tried to do it one way (building around forwards and thought they may have a Vezina level goalie that was elite) and it failed. Now they are trying another way but don't have the resources available to fully commit to it (too many bad contracts, too many roster positions locked up).
Listen I truly have always believed the most strategi thing to do is build from the blue line out. And the CBJ will likely do that going forward, but that was not the plan until we sucked out loud, fired the coach and traded Johansen for Jones. I don't give our FO/management credit for this plan, it happened because their prior plan failed and that was the assets they had (Seth Jones, Wernerski, Murray and the young goalies) with a lot of value.

 

[stevo61]

meh i think this is closer to the original plan. The team overachieved early so they got greedy and tried to build for now and that bit them in the ass so it was time to dial back. The 2 most recent coaching hires are guys known to be good with the defense so the current path is very obvious

 

[major major]

Compare that to the CBJ. Last off-season our plan was built around the forwards and Bob. Didn't care about the D - witnessed by not addressing it in the off-season with the hope that Murray would step up. Forward to last season and the D was terrible, Bob sucked and the forwards weren't scoring. So team fires the coach, trades their best offensive forward and now we're building around the blue line. Does that sound like a team with a good long-term plan or a team just being opportunistic? Listen being opportunistic can be effective, but it never makes you great. Being strategic makes you great.
This team/FO/management is in a corner. They tried to do it one way (building around forwards and thought they may have a Vezina level goalie that was elite) and it failed. Now they are trying another way but don't have the resources available to fully commit to it (too many bad contracts, too many roster positions locked up).
Listen I truly have always believed the most strategi thing to do is build from the blue line out. And the CBJ will likely do that going forward, but that was not the plan until we sucked out loud, fired the coach and traded Johansen for Jones. I don't give our FO/management credit for this plan, it happened because their prior plan failed and that was the assets they had (Seth Jones, Wernerski, Murray and the young goalies) with a lot of value.

You're assuming a lot here, and I think assuming wrong.

I was very upset with Jarmo for not moving more quickly to address the D. But in terms of "building around the D" and finding that piece to build around, it's not something you can just make happen. Look at the prices on the market for a top pair D. It's easy to believe Jarmo's words that he was trying the entire time, and didn't get a bite until Johansen had to go on the market. And even then he had to wait a while until Poile finally agreed to move Jones. The most he could have gotten absent that is perhaps a massive UFA deal for a #2 guy like Petry, which would have made this past year much better but come at the expense of the long term when the young talent is ready to compete.

As far as giving credit to the FO, I don't know what happened behind closed doors all these years, and we don't know what kind of build they talked about. I do know that finding the right players for that build is really where most of the work is, and in Werenski and Jones they did a great job.

And I think you're going wildly negative with this bit about not having the resources to follow the plan. The big 3 pieces are all signed to great deals and the bad contracts are slated to expire in time.

I don't think we really know for sure what the FOs plans were. I don't think you can infer from their past moves that they were building around forward. The Gaborik trade? You don't get a good D for that kind of spare parts trade. Horton contract? That's second pair D money on the open market. The Saad trade? Pure opportunism, but you'll notice a team like Chicago never moves a guy like Hjalmarsson or Seabrook when they're in a crunch.

 

[hockey17jp]

We'll all look back on this thread and laugh when Bjorkstrand pots 65 goals this year.

 

[major major]

We'll all look back on this thread and laugh when Bjorkstrand pots 65 goals this year.

That's insane.

But I agree, in a year or two we'll look back on this and say "man, those fans picked a really odd time to not be excited." It's easily the most talented roster we've ever had, and folks are upset we didn't get someone off of the scrap heap otherwise known as the UFA market.