Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[Andy]

Given Slafkovsky is not a typical NHL 1OA pick, he should not be treated as a typical NHL 1OA nor should the expectations of a typical NHL 1OA be placed on him.

What does this mean? He needs time to cook.

He should be given the same amount of time to cook as the recent list of 1OAs Dahlin, Power, Hughes, Laf who all had very slow D+1s.

He probably should be given the same top as most players drafted top 3 in the last 5 years (Byfield, Stutzle, Kakko, Berniers, McTavish, Kakko, Dach, KK, Svechnikov).

Most of these players started to show huge development strides at the nhl level in their D+2 and D+3 years. I think it's reasonable to expect the same as Slaf's recent peers.

 

[River Meadow]

He should definitely start in the nhl. If he has a long period of poor play, then thats when you consider sending him down to the ahl.

Why should he 'definitely' start in the NHL?

 

[themilosh]

Another point i would like to make.

''Slaf is not a true 1st overall, it was a weak draft.''

I would not trade Slaf for many player on this list let me tell you.

I would take Slafkovksy well above all of those players excepted Svechnikov, Stutzle, Dahlin, Hughes and MAYBEEE Beniers.

I'd trade Slaf + for Laff and Kakko

 

[ReHabs]

He should be given the same amount of time to cook as the recent list of 1OAs Dahlin, Power, Hughes, Laf who all had very slow D+1s.

He probably should be given the same top as most players drafted top 3 in the last 5 years (Byfield, Stutzle, Kakko, Berniers, McTavish, Kakko, Dach, KK, Svechnikov).

Most of these players started to show huge development strides at the nhl level in their D+2 and D+3 years. I think it's reasonable to expect the same as Slaf's recent peers.

There is an opportunity cost to keeping Slaf in the NHL on the hopes of a good D+2/Sophomore NHL season.

That’s the underlying debate here. What is better approach for this specific player and our best interests?

We can disagree in good faith but at this juncture I think preseason has to be evaluated with honesty. Some said Slaf was amazing last game, others said he was lost as always. If we have the same expectations for him, maybe the discourse will be less extreme and irritating to everyone. I get plenty irritated when I read comparison of him and Jack Hughes when they had nowhere the same pedigree or D+1 performance.

 

[Andy]

For me a successful season would like anything like the following:

- 15g-15a-30pts
- 10g-25a-35pts

Either or will have shown really good progress in a D+2 year given his skillset.

I would then expect his D+3 year to look something like

-20g-25a-45pts
-15g-35a-50pts

I think this is fairly reasonable development.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

This new thread is so fresh and clean!! I really like it here! Thanks @Lafleurs Guy !!

 

[BaseballCoach]

Given Slafkovsky is not a typical NHL 1OA pick, he should not be treated as a typical NHL 1OA nor should the expectations of a typical NHL 1OA be placed on him.

What does this mean? He needs time to cook.

I don’t think he’s so skilled that he just needs more time to put it together. In fact, given his profile and what we know of him, he has a lot to improve in terms of putting his game together. He’s a project, right?

Let him get maximal puck touches and situations in which to be The Man. I don’t think the intensity and difficulty of the NHL will help him to develop his game. I don’t think the AHL is preferable either, that still seems like too far from his game. If I were the boss he would be in Finland with a mandate to be the best player of that league.

Barring Europe, being placed in the AHL would clearly offer more opportunities to perform as a first line forward than in the NHL where the quality of competition is beyond his ability.

Slaf does not need to be a first line forward yet.

It would be nice for him to graduate to the 3rd line, then eventually the 2nd line, within this season and next. This progression cannot happen if he is outside this league.

 

[Andy]

There is an opportunity cost to keeping Slaf in the NHL on the hopes of a good D+2/Sophomore NHL season.

That’s the underlying debate here. What is better approach for this specific player and our best interests?

We can disagree in good faith but at this juncture I think preseason has to be evaluated with honesty. Some said Slaf was amazing last game, others said he was lost as always. If we have the same expectations for him, maybe the discourse will be less extreme and irritating to everyone. I get plenty irritated when I read comparison of him and Jack Hughes when they had nowhere the same pedigree or D+1 performance.

What is that opportunity cost in your opinion?

I see you mentioned Jack Hughes, but I gave you quite the list of players that also have had slow starts to their careers despite being top picks. Slaf's D+1 production pace was not that far off from most his peers at similar draft spots (also hard to project given he didn't even play the full-season and got hurt during a cold streak.

The issue with Slaf now is that the scrutiny is so intense people are evaluating him on a shift-by-shift basis. Given taht no player has a perfect game, it's no surprising that people will have different opinions about his play for a single game.

Last game he had a meh first, and a strong 2nd and 3rd. On the whole it was a good game for someone who has not played hockey since Jan 15.

 

[River Meadow]

There is an opportunity cost to keeping Slaf in the NHL on the hopes of a good D+2/Sophomore NHL season.

That’s the underlying debate here. What is better approach for this specific player and our best interests?

We can disagree in good faith but at this juncture I think preseason has to be evaluated with honesty. Some said Slaf was amazing last game, others said he was lost as always. If we have the same expectations for him, maybe the discourse will be less extreme and irritating to everyone. I get plenty irritated when I read comparison of him and Jack Hughes when they had nowhere the same pedigree or D+1 performance.

Plus...

We can bite the bullet now, send Slaf down to AHL, without having contributed TOO much to making him feel super entitled if/when we want to send him down later (remember KK?).

It's gonna feel a lot different for him getting sent down now VS getting sent down later or even next year.

We really need to stop contributing to the entitlement of players just based off of draft pedigree, grow some b@lls Habs management, please. Do what's best for the player in the long term.

Slaf does not need to be a first line forward yet.

It would be nice for him to graduate to the 3rd line, then eventually the 2nd line, within this season and next. This progression cannot happen if he is outside this league.

But you're not factoring in something very important...

A certain progression may not be able to happen if he is stuck in a league he was never actually ready for.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I think it's important to stress that since the Dahlin draft, none of the 1OA were ready to make an impact in their D+1 year. Dahlin, Power, Hughes, Laf, and Slaf have all had a slow start to their careers.

Even other players drafted in the top 3 during those years have had slow starts (Byfield, Stutzle, Kakko, Berniers, McTavish, Kakko, Dach, KK, Svechnikov).

Everyone needs to chill and give the player time to develop.

Stutzle had a slow start?? What do you mean by 'start'? A few games?

Plus...

We can bite the bullet now, send Slaf down to AHL, without having contributed TOO much to making him feel super entitled if/when we want to send him down later (remember KK?).

It's gonna feel a lot different for him getting sent down now VS getting sent down later or even next year.

We really need to stop contributing to the entitlement of players just based off of draft pedigree, grow some b@lls Habs management, please. Do what's best for the player in the long term.



But you're not factoring in something very important...

A certain progression may not be able to happen if he is stuck in a league he was never actually ready for.

But IS HE not ready?

He looks better than Lias Anderson who was an AHL star.

I think Slaf is ok in the bottom six. He does not need AHL seasoning on the 5th-6th-7th line to get him ready for the fourth.

In fact, he may even be ready now for the 3rd line, we will see soon enough.

 

[Andy]

Stutzle had a slow start?? What do you mean by 'start'? A few games?

He was not a first liner in his D+1 season and needed work to refine his game.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He was not a first liner in his D+1 season and needed work to refine his game.

LOLOLOLOL.

"Not on the first line" = "slow start" !!!!

OK, every player in the history of hockey except maybe 5 had a slow start then.

The term loses its meaning if it applies to virtually everyone.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Prefer NHL with more ice time than everyone born before Suzuki. (99)

 

[cphabs]

I don't know how to quote a conversation from a closed thread...

Mod Edit: You just copy and paste. Like this:


but to answer your question @nhlfan9191 - see below.

I know, we've had this conversation before.

I've never played hockey so my opinion is worthless according to you.

You were being disrespectful then, and you are again...which is cool, doesn't bother me.

It ain't going to prevent me from posting here as I have for over 20 years.

But to develop my answer more...

I've never played hockey before...but I played basketball at a fairly high level, I currently coach U-16 kids in competitive basketball, which again, is at a fairly high level since we're playing kids all over the province.

So despite not having had the opportunity or desire to have played hockey growing up (not exactly a popular sport for a young black kid growing up - just saying) i'm very familiar with concepts of development.

Lmfao!

He should be given the same amount of time to cook as the recent list of 1OAs Dahlin, Power, Hughes, Laf who all had very slow D+1s.

He probably should be given the same top as most players drafted top 3 in the last 5 years (Byfield, Stutzle, Kakko, Berniers, McTavish, Kakko, Dach, KK, Svechnikov).

Most of these players started to show huge development strides at the nhl level in their D+2 and D+3 years. I think it's reasonable to expect the same as Slaf's recent peers.

And he’s 19?

 

[1909]

Now it's too late to turn the clocks back. NHL is the only way to go. Keep him on a middle-six line. Give him 15 minutes a nite and some secondary PP time.

 

[ReHabs]

Slaf does not need to be a first line forward yet.

It would be nice for him to graduate to the 3rd line, then eventually the 2nd line, within this season and next. This progression cannot happen if he is outside this league.

I don’t subscribe to this progression nor do I think it is a reasonable one for Slafkovsky in particular.

Slafkovsky the Project needs to come together and I believe it is more likely to successfully come together if he plays meaningful minutes in all roles. What supports my argument on the first page of this thread is MSL himself — they agreed he needs more puck touches. Most of us annoyed at his last season’s lack of success were annoyed that it was so avoidable: he was never going to dominate the puck in the NHL.

Now is the chance to put egos aside and work to get a meaningful and successful impact player out of Slafkovsky. I don’t believe he will develop the things he needs to develop (namely: playmaking and figuring out the game) even if he plays on the first line shotgun next to Suzuki.

 

[River Meadow]

Now it's too late to turn the clocks back. NHL is the only way to go. Keep him on a middle-six line. Give him 15 minutes a nite and some secondary PP time.

Why?

 

[Tyson]

Keep your head up, show some good on ice vision, use your big body to win board battles and wear down the other team. Show you belong. 15G 15A would be a great progression offense wise

 

[ReHabs]

What is that opportunity cost in your opinion?

This is prime development time and I do not think Slafkovsky the Project can develop in the NHL. The game is too intense for him.

And if he manages to survive the game, he certainly has much to do to thrive and become a dominant playmaker.

At this time it seems clear to me he is not on that track but he has all the tools and the personality to be such a player.

I see you mentioned Jack Hughes, but I gave you quite the list of players that also have had slow starts to their careers despite being top picks. Slaf's D+1 production pace was not that far off from most his peers at similar draft spots (also hard to project given he didn't even play the full-season and got hurt during a cold streak.

The many many many comparisons and names brought up alongside Slafkovsky have not helped the discussion. Namely most of those prospects you named had superior pedigrees. I’m not permitted to mention his D year league performance so I’d like it if others refrained from comparing Jack Hughes to Slafkovsky.

Rantanen, Jagr, Drai, Backes, Wheeler, etc. are also irritating comparisons because nobody can define Slafkovsky’s game! Even his pumpers can’t say what he plays like. He’s that raw.

The issue with Slaf now is that the scrutiny is so intense people are evaluating him on a shift-by-shift basis. Given taht no player has a perfect game, it's no surprising that people will have different opinions about his play for a single game.

Scrutiny will be intense and ever more as Nemec, Cooley, etc. step into the NHL. If he can’t handle it, that’s too bad — the Habs should’ve never drafted him and rushed him.

If you’re referring to the fans and our inter-fan squabbling, I don’t think it matters at all.

Last game he had a meh first, and a strong 2nd and 3rd. On the whole it was a good game for someone who has not played hockey since Jan 15.

Let’s hope he earns a spot in the NHL this year with his play, unlike last year where he clearly didn’t.

 

[Goldthorpe]

Regarding the poll: if he plays like he played his game Monday, then NHL.

If between now and the end of camp he regress or is still too inconsistent, then AHL.

 

[Naslundforever]

AHL, please.

He should not be in the NHL I don't give a _____ what position he was drafted at.

Left wing

 

[417]

I respect you being honest.

Not sure what the purpose of patronizing me is.

Why would you even bother lol

But hey, whatever floats your boat!

 

[1909]

Why?

If you want to ruin his confidence (like the previous org has done with KK), send him to AHL. For me, KK and Slaf are quite similar mental wise. Their hockey background is pretty much the same. Drafted too early in the 1st round and Promoted way too early at NHL level. They have-had so much to learn.

 

[rickthegoon]

To be perfectly honest, I haven't watched enough AHL hockey to know if it's the right place for Slaf. What I do know, is that we do not have , as an organization, much success in developing forwards in the AHL.
His problems are all related to confidence. I think playing for Martin St-Louis could be the answer, more so than playing in the farm team.
I think all comparisons to KK are irrelevant, they are completely different players, and I think that Slaf will be a better student of the game in the next couple of years. He possesses unicorn physical attributes that will make him a genuine threat in 2-3 years. What I hope, and think he could become is a Kreider type. The kid needs time and 3rd line would be perfect this season, and maybe the next.
When he gets more upper body strength, he'll be a beast.

 

[Andrei79]

I want to see how he does this training camp and even the first few games. I voted NHL, but really I think its too soon to say. Maybe if he had played in the AHL last year and gotten 50 or so points it would be clear the vote would be NHL. For me the production is less important than the kind of chances he gets. I don't think 50 points is realistic. Dach, a more experienced player, got 38 in 50 only. If he gets 15 goals, that would be very good. I didn't see enough improvement in his skating yet to think he'll break out significantly. Usually, it's more in year 4-5 coming from how raw he was last year.