Player Discussion Julien Gauthier

[Sayba]

Then what is your friggin’ argument? That Howden is going to steal Gauthier’s God given ice time next year, when there is a solid chance that neither is playing for the Rangers?

My argument has been pretty clear. I think he has the potential to be a good 3rd line winger for years to come. I wouldn't have scratched him for Howden previously and I wouldn't continue to do it.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I don't understand this argument

Gauthier is better at hockey than Howden. Isn't that reason enough?

 

[kovazub94]

I don't understand why is it so difficult to understand.

Howden is a center and PKer. Other things being equal in case the Rangers need an in-game "emergency" center and / or PKer - it's Howden over Gauthier. Plus, whether you want to accept it or not but the difference is also that Howden has had more experience compared to Gauthier and with head coaches - it counts; unlike the hockey boards where hypothetical potential worth more than actual experience. And also there are degrees here - we're not talking a gap in talent between Kravtsov and Blackwell. We're talking frcking Gauthier vs. Howden!

 

[Harbour Dog]

I don't understand why is it so difficult to understand.

Howden is a center and PKer. Other things being equal in case the Rangers need an in-game "emergency" center and / or PKer - it's Howden over Gauthier. Plus, whether you want to accept it or not but the difference is also that Howden has had more experience compared to Gauthier and with head coaches - it counts; unlike the hockey boards where hypothetical potential worth more than actual experience. And also there are degrees here - we're not talking a gap in talent between Kravtsov and Blackwell. We're talking frcking Gauthier vs. Howden!

Howden doesn't really take faceoffs and is bad at them anyway, and we have plenty of PK options. As a stand-in centre in case we really need one, I mean, I guess, but that's barely on my radar as a legit reason.

It's that experience/familiarity argument that is most likely the reason that Howden gets the nod, as he would from any coach, but I don't see either of those reasons as being justification to play a worse player. Also, Gauthier is more prone to unpredictability; not something that is going to earn a coach's trust.

But Gauthier SHOULD have gotten more opportunities, I think everybody agrees on that. And my personal preference would be that he gets opportunities now as well. Even if playing Howden or Gauthier on the 4th line "doesn't matter" (which I don't agree with), then I would still prefer to play the better player.

But I'm not upset at all. I don't understand how the argument has been going on for so long, because as you say, it's frcking Gauthier vs. Howden.

 

[kovazub94]

...
But Gauthier SHOULD have gotten more opportunities, I think everybody agrees on that. And my personal preference would be that he gets opportunities now as well. Even if playing Howden or Gauthier on the 4th line "doesn't matter" (which I don't agree with), then I would still prefer to play the better player.

But I'm not upset at all. I don't understand how the argument has been going on for so long, because as you say, it's frcking Gauthier vs. Howden.

A part of it, as was noted earlier, is that the Rangers forwards recently have stayed pretty healthy and it’s just a case of pecking order where Gauthier is next in line but everyone stays in the lineup.

 

[eco's bones]

None of the Rangers centers have had a good year on face-offs but as far as winning% it goes like this:

Howden 46.8
Zibanejad 46.4
Rooney 46.1
Strome 43.8
Chytil 40.6

Part of what’s gone on is that the Rangers have settled on a lineup for the playoff push. That squeezed out both Gauthier and DiGiuseppe. Adding Julien to the lineup and taking out Howden certainly might make it a bit more dynamic as far as scoring chances but there is IMO a lot of merit to the face-off/penalty kill argument that would argue for Howden instead. The Rangers trust Brett’s defensive instincts and don’t really trust Gauthier’s and he’s not a guy we use on either special team. On our team he is a 4th liner with a limited job description. Some posters IMO look at skill level and point production too much when it comes to these bottom line assignments. There are situations that occur in any hockey game that need to be dealt with that production stats are not going to reflect on. A message to Gauthier for next year is to diversify his game more.

 

[chosen]

Howden ain't much. Neither is Gauthier.

Quinn explained to the press Gauthier isn't playing because he keeps making the same mistakes. If you're not doing what the coach asks of you, you don't play. It's not a mystery.

 

[Blais to Win]

That squeezed out both Gauthier and DiGiuseppe. Adding Julien to the lineup and taking out Howden certainly might make it a bit more dynamic as far as scoring chances but there is IMO a lot of merit to the face-off/penalty kill argument that would argue for Howden instead. The Rangers trust Brett’s defensive instincts and don’t really trust Gauthier’s and he’s not a guy we use on either special team. On our team he is a 4th liner with a limited job description.

So to me Howden is a red herring here. Sure Gauthier is better than him. But that's not even the issue. The problem is Blackwell. He's occupying a space that earlier Gauthier could have occupied and now one that Kravtsov should occupy and meanwhile he's started killing his line. We never got a chance to see what Gauthier could do up the lineup despite the fact that we have seen early flashes of offensive skill and willingness to go to the front of the net. We could have spent this season developing him instead of the guy with no future here. It's a disappointment.

 

[True Blue]

I agree that the Rangers are not winning or losing a game because either Howden or Gauthier plays on the fourth line.

My beef is that I think Gauthier has potential, even if there is no room for him on the Rangers, and I don't understand the eight minutes a game and then all of the scratches before Kravtsov got here to be replaced by guys with little to no future. If Gauthier had a fair shot and didn't make it I am fine with that. But I think the team wasted a potential resource in not giving Gauthier a consistent chance and I think the frustration you are seeing about Howden vs. Gauthier really is a reflection on the failure to give a talented player a decent chance.

I believe that Gauthier has potential. I also believe that there is a demand from his game by the coaches that he is not doing. He is quite a dichotomy. I see the progress in his game, but I also see that he is not exactly outplaying the opposition and banging down the door. I think that with more coaching he may get there, but I also do not see a spot for him here long term. At his utmost, the Rangers trade Buch and he competes next year for the 3rd line wing spot. That is his best chance with this team.

 

[True Blue]

I don't understand this argument

Gauthier is better at hockey than Howden. Isn't that reason enough?

With blinders on, sure. My guess is that in the middle of a frantic playoff chase, the coaching staff values Howden on face offs (however many he takes) and ability to kill penalties over playing Gauthier 6 minutes.

 

[tomobson]

There is really no point in getting goat in anymore. The fourth line has been a tire fire these past three games or so but if they are to shake it up it'll probably be pdg in for howden. If goat gets put in the bench will get shortened in the third period and goat will be the one sitting out anyways. He'll have absolutely no leash in these games. He'll probably ask for a trade unless the kraken take him, which would probably be the best thing for him.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

There might be few funnier things than Julien Gauthier asking for a trade...

 

[True Blue]

There might be few funnier things than Julien Gauthier asking for a trade...

See all the good that it has done Lemieux. And Andersson for that matter.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

See all the good that it has done Lemieux. And Andersson for that matter.

At least Gauthier will go where it's warm....

 

[chosen]

So to me Howden is a red herring here. Sure Gauthier is better than him. But that's not even the issue. The problem is Blackwell. He's occupying a space that earlier Gauthier could have occupied and now one that Kravtsov should occupy and meanwhile he's started killing his line. We never got a chance to see what Gauthier could do up the lineup despite the fact that we have seen early flashes of offensive skill and willingness to go to the front of the net. We could have spent this season developing him instead of the guy with no future here. It's a disappointment.

Quinn had him in the lineup. He kept screwing up, according to the coach, so he's out of the lineup. Maybe someday Gauthier will figure out what it takes.

 

[True Blue]

At least Gauthier will go where it's warm....

What a line that will make. They had to escape from the evil coach to the land of palm trees to discover their talent that was being ruined. I mean look at how well two of them are doing now.

 

[kovazub94]

So to me Howden is a red herring here. Sure Gauthier is better than him. But that's not even the issue. The problem is Blackwell. He's occupying a space that earlier Gauthier could have occupied and now one that Kravtsov should occupy and meanwhile he's started killing his line. We never got a chance to see what Gauthier could do up the lineup despite the fact that we have seen early flashes of offensive skill and willingness to go to the front of the net. We could have spent this season developing him instead of the guy with no future here. It's a disappointment.

Again, missing the point here. The jump off point is that Gauthier MUST be able to be a reliable 4th liner to get a permanent role over Howden. It's prerequisite without which anything else becomes moot.

 

[Blais to Win]

Again, missing the point here. The jump off point is that Gauthier MUST be able to be a reliable 4th liner to get a permanent role over Howden. It's prerequisite without which anything else becomes moot.

For all you know Quinn just keeps Howden in the lineup because they're both related through piercing blue eyes. Howden isn't reliable in any way except that you can be sure he can't handle the puck and can't score. And anyway Gauthier may have a ceiling higher that 4th liner, but no, that's Blackwell's spot for the season where he steals time from him and Kravtsov.

We won't find out this season, though, and we may not find out on the NYR.

 

[kovazub94]

For all you know Quinn just keeps Howden in the lineup because they're both related through piercing blue eyes. Howden isn't reliable in any way except that you can be sure he can't handle the puck and can't score. And anyway Gauthier may have a ceiling higher that 4th liner, but no, that's Blackwell's spot for the season where he steals time from him and Kravtsov.

We won't find out this season, though, and we may not find out on the NYR.

That's your opinion. It differs from Quinn's and eye test of many posters here who have similar to HC's observation.

 

[Blais to Win]

That's your opinion.

Yes. Maybe we should all just put this disclaimer in our signatures to make conversation easier?

 

[kovazub94]

Yes. Maybe we should all just put this disclaimer in our signatures to make conversation easier?

If you tend to mix up facts with opinions - sure!

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

None of the Rangers centers have had a good year on face-offs but as far as winning% it goes like this:

Howden 46.8
Zibanejad 46.4
Rooney 46.1
Strome 43.8
Chytil 40.6

Part of what’s gone on is that the Rangers have settled on a lineup for the playoff push. That squeezed out both Gauthier and DiGiuseppe. Adding Julien to the lineup and taking out Howden certainly might make it a bit more dynamic as far as scoring chances but there is IMO a lot of merit to the face-off/penalty kill argument that would argue for Howden instead. The Rangers trust Brett’s defensive instincts and don’t really trust Gauthier’s and he’s not a guy we use on either special team. On our team he is a 4th liner with a limited job description. Some posters IMO look at skill level and point production too much when it comes to these bottom line assignments. There are situations that occur in any hockey game that need to be dealt with that production stats are not going to reflect on. A message to Gauthier for next year is to diversify his game more.

This.

Of course it would be great for Howden to produce more. No doubt about that. But when it comes to the Gauthier and Howden it is pretty clear that Howden gives the team more of what they want in that role.

 

[Blais to Win]

If you tend to mix up facts with opinions - sure!

Ok.

 

[Off Sides]

I think if we are going to look at face-offs and assign value to them, it needs to be a little more specific.

For example, In the D-zone Howden drops behind Strome, and only like ~ 1% better than Chytil
New York Rangers- Face-off stats - 2020 - defensive zone - Puckbase


Similar in the O-zone
New York Rangers- Face-off stats - 2020 - offensive zone - Puckbase


Howden leads Chytil by a lot on the neutral zone however
New York Rangers- Face-off stats - 2020 - neutral zone - Puckbase

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Howden is terrible at most things, and okay at a few. Let’s make sure he’s never scratched so we can lose an asset that we don’t know the full value of yet.

yea the results this year may be negligible, but Gauthier has the potential to be an Alex Tuch type player, while Howden already is what he is. Wouldn’t you guys like to figure out what we actually have here?