Player Discussion: Josh Ho-Sang

[PK Cronin]

There were very few meanguful games that season. There was barely a push. More like a gentle nudge. I acknowledge his skill. He’s super fun to watch. But he is a huge liability defensively.

The games aren't meaningless when you missed the playoffs by a single point. This is an insane take.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

The games aren't meaningless when you missed the playoffs by a single point. This is an insane take.

They won a bunch of games at the tail end when they were mathematically eliminated. The whole “missed by a single point” is very deceptive. They were terrible in the beginning, made a coaching change, got better (when the pressure was minuscule), almost got back into the race and then crapped the bed when it mattered most. And went on a winning streak when once again it didn’t matter.

Outside of a very few games when they were starting to knock on the door, the games were meaningless after Christmas that season.

And Ho Sang contributed to the meaningless victories.

Sorry. Not impressed.

 

[PK Cronin]

They won a bunch of games at the tail end when they were mathematically eliminated. The whole “missed by a single point” is very deceptive. They were terrible in the beginning, made a coaching change, got better (when the pressure was minuscule), almost got back into the race and then crapped the bed when it mattered most. And went on a winning streak when once again it didn’t matter.

Outside of a very few games when they were starting to knock on the door, the games were meaningless after Christmas that season.

And Ho Sang contributed to the meaningless victories.

Sorry. Not impressed.

They weren't mathematically eliminated until the the last day of the season. You're trying really hard to dismiss his production because you seemingly don't like him.. He was also 20 years old in his first stint in the NHL and thrust onto the top line, I'm not surprised he didn't light it up when it mattered most down the stretch. He did produce at the NHL level that year and he produced at the same level last season during the first half of the season when the team was doing well in the standings.

 

[crasherino]

They weren't mathematically eliminated until the the last day of the season. You're trying really hard to dismiss his production because you seemingly don't like him.. He was also 20 years old in his first stint in the NHL and thrust onto the top line, I'm not surprised he didn't light it up when it mattered most down the stretch. He did produce at the NHL level that year and he produced at the same level last season during the first half of the season when the team was doing well in the standings.

IIRC, they were eliminated on Saturday night - the day before the end of the season. Was really unfortunate too - the (f***ing) Leafs won the game after coming back from a 1-2 goal deficit. They lost the next day too and it wasn't like they were throwing in the towel - they had to win that game to secure home ice advantage so they were going all out just as if they would have been if the playoffs were on the line.

Your point is valid - other than the last game of the year, those games all mattered.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

They weren't mathematically eliminated until the the last day of the season. You're trying really hard to dismiss his production because you seemingly don't like him.. He was also 20 years old in his first stint in the NHL and thrust onto the top line, I'm not surprised he didn't light it up when it mattered most down the stretch. He did produce at the NHL level that year and he produced at the same level last season during the first half of the season when the team was doing well in the standings.

When they lost those 3 games in a row at the end of March it was over. After that they were maybe mathematically not eliminated but had to run the table (which they did!) and needed lots of help in order to make it. Obviously they didn't.

I'm not trying to dismiss anything and when did I say I don't like him? My only point is that he is a very flawed player and needs to work on the defensive aspect of his game. He has lots of flash to his game but can be a big liability. So much so that the negatives outweigh the positives. Looks like another NHL coach agrees with me.

 

[crasherino]

When they lost those 3 games in a row at the end of March it was over. After that they were maybe mathematically not eliminated but had to run the table (which they did!) and needed lots of help in order to make it. Obviously they didn't.

I'm not trying to dismiss anything and when did I say I don't like him? My only point is that he is a very flawed player and needs to work on the defensive aspect of his game. He has lots of flash to his game but can be a big liability. So much so that the negatives outweigh the positives. Looks like another NHL coach agrees with me.

I'm not suggesting that he isn't deficient in certain areas (he most definitely is), but I'm not sure how you can say you're not impressed with what he brings or what he did that season. And while there is a difference in playing stressful stretch run games while in the heat of an intense playoff run as opposed to the Islanders stretch run where they ultimately made it close, he was still playing NHL competition in an NHL system with NHL teammates. His skill and ability definite shined and demonstrated that his game can translate to this league. Now, he has to keep doing that and show that he belongs up with the big club for good, but what he did was definitely impressive. If anything, his play last year was disappointing in light of his play the prior year.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

IIRC, they were eliminated on Saturday night - the day before the end of the season. Was really unfortunate too - the (****ing) Leafs won the game after coming back from a 1-2 goal deficit. They lost the next day too and it wasn't like they were throwing in the towel - they had to win that game to secure home ice advantage so they were going all out just as if they would have been if the playoffs were on the line.

Your point is valid - other than the last game of the year, those games all mattered.

After they lost those 3 in a row they were in 11th place, 7 points out with 6 games left to play. How much did those games really matter? The season was over. They had to basically win all 6 games (which unbelievably they did) and have the 3 teams in front of them go into a slump. It would have taken a miracle.

I will concede this though - they did come on strong Feb/March and were legitimately in the race for a couple of weeks. I just looked it up. And Ho-Sang was certainly part of that and deserves some credit.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I'm not suggesting that he isn't deficient in certain areas (he most definitely is), but I'm not sure how you can say you're not impressed with what he brings or what he did that season. And while there is a difference in playing stressful stretch run games while in the heat of an intense playoff run as opposed to the Islanders stretch run where they ultimately made it close, he was still playing NHL competition in an NHL system with NHL teammates. His skill and ability definite shined and demonstrated that his game can translate to this league. Now, he has to keep doing that and show that he belongs up with the big club for good, but what he did was definitely impressive. If anything, his play last year was disappointing in light of his play the prior year.

I'm not impressed with the overall package. Seeing him enter the offensive is cool and gets people out of their seats. But there's a lot more that he has to work on. When evaluating his overall game I think he belongs in the minors. And some of his behavior is certainly not helping his cause. I just don't buy the whole notion that he deserves to be in the NHL and is somehow being mistreated. He's where he belongs. But I don't dislike him and I'm not saying he sucks or we should give up on him. Hopefully he figures things out. Seeing him and Barzal on the ice together would be awesome.

 

[PK Cronin]

I'm not trying to dismiss anything and when did I say I don't like him? My only point is that he is a very flawed player and needs to work on the defensive aspect of his game. He has lots of flash to his game but can be a big liability. So much so that the negatives outweigh the positives. Looks like another NHL coach agrees with me.

Your criticism was a little harsh and seems like you don't like him. Coaches routinely send guys down who are waiver exempt at the beginning of the season.

 

[crasherino]

I'm not impressed with the overall package. Seeing him enter the offensive is cool and gets people out of their seats. But there's a lot more that he has to work on. When evaluating his overall game I think he belongs in the minors. And some of his behavior is certainly not helping his cause. I just don't buy the whole notion that he deserves to be in the NHL and is somehow being mistreated. He's where he belongs. But I don't dislike him and I'm not saying he sucks or we should give up on him. Hopefully he figures things out. Seeing him and Barzal on the ice together would be awesome.

I just wish he could get his shit together and bring some offense to a 3rd line. He's potentially a difference maker for the franchise because if he becomes even part of what we hope he could be, he adds an element we so desperately need - some offensive creativity and spark to the middle 9. We go from a team with a competent top 6 and 2 4th lines to a team where our first 3 lines are dangerous. That's big in today's game.

I'm not opposed to him being sent down to start the season either. But at some point, the team is going to have to realize that JHS won't quite be exactly what they want him to be and they will have to let him sink or swim with the big club - warts and all. If he sinks, fine - so be it. But what he potentially offers is too valuable to simply dismiss. At the very least, they need to make every effort to put him into a position to succeed - both in the AHL and NHL. There's a time and place for tough love and discipline. Some players need coddling too. Not suggesting either way is the correct path - but the team should make it a priority to have JHS succeed. That benefits everyone.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Yet again, let me state my point. I'm an Islander fan. I rood for the laundry. But the obsession that this team "ruined" him is ridiculous. He has been doing most of it to himself.

To use a Arbour/Torrey as a level of a spectrum to grade coaching/management is ridiculous.

Ho-sang's best NHL look was under Weight.

Again, perhaps look at the player.

Using the Arbour/Torrey comparison as it is the exact other end of the spectrum from Weight/Snow, and everyone knew it. I have no idea how the players were not rolling their eyes when the "strategy" was being presented to them. Ho-sang is an intelligent guy, he got it and was/is outspoken enough to go public with his comments.
I never said he was ruined, but we sure could use more skill in our lineup.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Your criticism was a little harsh and seems like you don't like him. Coaches routinely send guys down who are waiver exempt at the beginning of the season.

True. Hopefully if/when he's called up he makes it hard for Trotz to send him back down.

 

[CREW99AW]

There were very few meanguful games that season. There was barely a push. More like a gentle nudge. I acknowledge his skill. He’s super fun to watch. But he is a huge liability defensively.

Yes, defense is a weak part of his game and it's holding him back.
But, a huge liability defensively?

We will have to agree to disagree. I don't think he is the tire fire you make him out to be.

Lou has said several times he wants a speedy skllled team. I am giving Lou time to shape this roster.
We will see where JHS fits.

 

[PK Cronin]

True. Hopefully if/when he's called up he makes it hard for Trotz to send him back down.

I think he has a few issues he needs to work on, but he demonstrated a willingness to do it in his first NHL stint. I was generally impressed, based off his reputation, with his willingness to dump the puck and grind it out in the corners. He definitely got away from that last year. Another issue is that he likes to circle back and then lose the puck when he's the last player back. That just can't happen. I don't like it when Barzal does it and I certainly don't like it when Ho-Sang does. The last big issue I have with him is that he telegraphs his desire to pass the puck. The way Barzal holds the puck, it helps keeps goaltenders a bit honest. Ho-Sang does this thing where he turns his whole body and isn't in a shooting position anymore, then looks for a pass. If he could imitate some of what Barzal does he'd be better off.

He's a winger, so as long as he's willing to hustle back and not break out of the zone early, I'm okay with his defense. He's a detriment when he's coughing the puck up in transition because he's gotten too fancy, but I think that can be corrected. I don't care if he corrects it at the NHL level or the AHL level at this point, but he's definitely better for the team than a Kuhnhackl, Fritz, etc. type of player is.

 

[Hunn]

After they lost those 3 in a row they were in 11th place, 7 points out with 6 games left to play. How much did those games really matter? The season was over. They had to basically win all 6 games (which unbelievably they did) and have the 3 teams in front of them go into a slump. It would have taken a miracle.

I will concede this though - they did come on strong Feb/March and were legitimately in the race for a couple of weeks. I just looked it up. And Ho-Sang was certainly part of that and deserves some credit.

He actually stop producing (2 points in the last 6 games or so) after those 3 losses (and somehow went +7 in plus/minus for whatever it's worth), so it's not really true that he banked points when the games didn't matter.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

He actually stop producing (2 points in the last 6 games or so) after those 3 losses (and somehow went +7 in plus/minus for whatever it's worth), so it's not really true that he banked points when the games didn't matter.

He also went pointless in those three losses, was a -3, and only had one shot on goal. Despite averaging 18 minutes of ice time.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

He also went pointless in those three losses, was a -3, and only had one shot on goal. Despite averaging 18 minutes of ice time.

So, he also kept us out of the playoffs.
Bum!

 

[Costigan77]

So, he also kept us out of the playoffs.
Bum!

Completely understand you are a fan of his. He has an electric skating ability. But your replies are a bit "funky."

Again, when the team(s) talk about maturity issues.....no notice.

Are you understanding what that means?

 

[doublechili]

Completely understand you are a fan of his. He has an electric skating ability. But your replies are a bit "funky."

Again, when the team(s) talk about maturity issues.....no notice.

Are you understanding what that means?

I'll jump in because I've been wondering what that means. In the context, the best I can come up with is that maybe JHS takes "no notice" of the coaching he receives? Kinda just does his own thing like he knows better than coaches and vets? Just guessing.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I thought that it meant that he took the day off without giving the team notice. Of course that's just me connecting dots and reading between the lines in Costigan's posts. I have no other information.

 

[MJF]

Completely understand you are a fan of his. He has an electric skating ability. But your replies are a bit "funky."

Again, when the team(s) talk about maturity issues.....no notice.

Are you understanding what that means?

You keep hinting about no notice. Why don't you just come right out and say what happened?

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

He also went pointless in those three losses, was a -3, and only had one shot on goal. Despite averaging 18 minutes of ice time.

I think teams started figuring him out a little bit. Just let him skate around until he either a) gets into the corner and is easily overpowered, or b) falls down/turns it over/forces a pass. He hasn't seemed to be able to adjust and make good decisions. Just tries too hard to make something happen, or overcompensates and tries to play too conservatively. That lack of cognitive adaptability and situational awareness is why I'm skeptical about him long term. I don't think he needs to learn more defense or whatever, he just needs to make better decisions.

 

[Rehabguy]

Ho Sang is a legitimate talent, just needs some seasoning in the AHL and he'll be ready. He's the most talented forward on the Islanders other than Barzal. The Isles will need his offensive talents in the long run. He just has to keep working hard and learning.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I think he has a few issues he needs to work on, but he demonstrated a willingness to do it in his first NHL stint. I was generally impressed, based off his reputation, with his willingness to dump the puck and grind it out in the corners. He definitely got away from that last year. Another issue is that he likes to circle back and then lose the puck when he's the last player back. That just can't happen. I don't like it when Barzal does it and I certainly don't like it when Ho-Sang does. The last big issue I have with him is that he telegraphs his desire to pass the puck. The way Barzal holds the puck, it helps keeps goaltenders a bit honest. Ho-Sang does this thing where he turns his whole body and isn't in a shooting position anymore, then looks for a pass. If he could imitate some of what Barzal does he'd be better off.

He's a winger, so as long as he's willing to hustle back and not break out of the zone early, I'm okay with his defense. He's a detriment when he's coughing the puck up in transition because he's gotten too fancy, but I think that can be corrected. I don't care if he corrects it at the NHL level or the AHL level at this point, but he's definitely better for the team than a Kuhnhackl, Fritz, etc. type of player is.

This is key. He doesn't have nearly the same shiftiness as Barzal and I'm not sure he's capable of it. He's a fast skater but I don't think he has the same mobility side to side that Barzal has, he's just more of an up and down straight ahead skater that takes advantage of a little lateral movement with his speed. Barzal can cut to the net better as well as into lanes which keep defenseman guessing. JHS will be better if he can learn not to telegraph passes, but i'm not sure he'll ever have that side to side agility that Barzal has.

 

[NC 1972]

This is key. He doesn't have nearly the same shiftiness as Barzal and I'm not sure he's capable of it. He's a fast skater but I don't think he has the same mobility side to side that Barzal has, he's just more of an up and down straight ahead skater that takes advantage of a little lateral movement with his speed. Barzal can cut to the net better as well as into lanes which keep defenseman guessing. JHS will be better if he can learn not to telegraph passes, but i'm not sure he'll ever have that side to side agility that Barzal has.

To be fair there are few players in the league that exhibit the edge work that Barzal displays on a nightly basis. His ability to process the game and translate that into action is what makes him so elusive! Its rare seeing a player with such escape ability, literally can stick handle in a phone both. His ability to maneuver due his excellent edge work is what makes him unpredictable,the constant changing of speed and direction is what gives him the time and space to free line mates and momentarily freeze defenders. It is such a joy to watch this guy worth the price of admission alone. But when watching Barzal one thing is painfully obvious and that is the lack of quality skaters on the rest of the team. Even though last nights game was a victory for the NYI the Rangers at least in my opinion are a much better skating team that being both speed and creativity.