Prospect Info: Jordan Kyrou (2016 Draft - 35 Overall)

[ezcreepin]

The biggest thing there is that a huge chunk of his recent success has come from playing on lines with guys who have speed. McDavid is a burner and one man transition show. In NJ he was playing with guys like Grabner, Wood, and Hall.

It's not that I don't think he can't find some measure of success with slower skilled guys, but I do think the overall play of his line is nowhere near as effective when you don't have a dynamic skater who can push the transition pace himself and get back quickly to help cover for any gaffes/turnovers that might happen while guys like Maroon catch back up to the play.

On defense, it's basically just ROR by himself back there. Tarasenko and Maroon contribute rather little in the defensive zone. Maybe that's enough for some of the matchups they'll get given the help they'll have behind...but it definitely won't be for some.

I just don't see it as the dominant sort of line composition that people seem to be hyping it up as. It's fine in the offensive zone, but flawed (and thus exploitable) elsewhere.

Frozen tools doesn't give all linecombos apparently, but the majority of his time at even strength was with Noesen and Coleman, and then with Wood and Zacha. Now I don't know how fast Wood is to his peers, but Maroon did manage to get 3 of his 9 ES points while on a line with Wood and Zacha. 99% of his points with guys like Hall and Hischier came on the pp. I don't necessarily believe he has to be on a impressive defensive line given his production, plus his zone starts. I don't disagree that him playing with ROR and Tarasenko is exploitable, just presenting my belief that he can reach his career numbers playing with them. Tbh, I believe he'll find success anywhere on this team.

 

[stl76]

The biggest thing there is that a huge chunk of his recent success has come from playing on lines with guys who have speed. McDavid is a burner and one man transition show. In NJ he was playing with guys like Grabner, Wood, and Hall.

It's not that I don't think he can't find some measure of success with slower skilled guys, but I do think the overall play of his line is nowhere near as effective when you don't have a dynamic skater who can push the transition pace himself and get back quickly to help cover for any gaffes/turnovers that might happen while guys like Maroon catch back up to the play.

On defense, it's basically just ROR by himself back there. Tarasenko and Maroon contribute rather little in the defensive zone. Maybe that's enough for some of the matchups they'll get given the help they'll have behind...but it definitely won't be for some.

I just don't see it as the dominant sort of line composition that people seem to be hyping it up as. It's fine in the offensive zone, but flawed (and thus exploitable) elsewhere.

Not sure where to look up line combinations from 2013-15, but I thought that Maroon did very well playing quite a bit with guys like Getzlaf and Perry who aren't exactly speed demons...to be clear tho, I'm not sure my recollection is 100% correct or where the find the info to verify/disprove.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Not sure where to look up line combinations from 2013-15, but I thought that Maroon did very well playing quite a bit with guys like Getzlaf and Perry who aren't exactly speed demons...to be clear tho, I'm not sure my recollection is 100% correct or where the find the info to verify/disprove.

He did well enough (10ish goals, 30ish points), but nothing close to the 20+ goal, 40ish point expectations that are closer to what some have for him here.

In general, that line had the same Achilles' heel that a ROR/Tarasenko line would have here, except the Blues version would be less physical than Anaheim's, and probably less talented as well.

 

[stl76]

He did well enough (10ish goals, 30ish points), but nothing close to the 20+ goal, 40ish point expectations that are closer to what some have for him here.

In general, that line had the same Achilles' heel that a ROR/Tarasenko line would have here, except the Blues version would be less physical than Anaheim's, and probably less talented as well.

To be fair to Maroon, part of those totals (10ish goals, 30ish points) was due to him only playing 60-70 games. Over a full 82 he was pacing for closer to 10-15G and 40P. Plus he was very good in the playoffs for Anaheim (which is not really relevant to this particular discussion, but worth mentioning IMO).

Maroon obviously got a boost from playing w/ McDavid, particularly in his goal totals due to a lot of tap in goals and rebounds. But I think you may be slightly overstating the difference in Maroon's effectiveness playing with a dynamic skater vs slower guys. Was McDavid really covering for Maroon a lot defensively in ways ROR couldn't?

 

[EastonBlues22]

To be fair to Maroon, part of those totals (10ish goals, 30ish points) was due to him only playing 60-70 games. Over a full 82 he was pacing for closer to 10-15G and 40P. Plus he was very good in the playoffs for Anaheim (which is not really relevant to this particular discussion, but worth mentioning IMO).

Maroon obviously got a boost from playing w/ McDavid, particularly in his goal totals due to a lot of tap in goals and rebounds. But I think you may be slightly overstating the difference in Maroon's effectiveness playing with a dynamic skater vs slower guys. Was McDavid really covering for Maroon a lot defensively in ways ROR couldn't?

This isn't simply about min-maxing Maroon's effectiveness. It's about the effectiveness of the entire line as a unit.

A combination of ROR and Tarasenko has its strengths, but they are not particularly fast from zone-to-zone, and Tarasenko is not particularly adept in the defensive zone. Adding another player who is slow from zone-to-zone emphasizes that particular weakness, and in the modern game that is definitely limiting offensively and exploitable defensively. Having two wingers who are weak defensively is clearly not ideal under any circumstances.

Do Maroon's strengths add more to that line than his deficiencies take away from it? I don't think so, personally, at least theoretically. He's good around the net, which is a bit redundant because ROR is as well. He's good in physical battles in the offensive boards, which is leveraged the most during chip and chase sequences...something you're not really hoping to do a lot on a line with your best center and best goal scoring winger. He's not quick to the puck or good defensively in space, he's not good in transition and he doesn't push the pace of play, he's not particularly skilled with the puck, he's not good in the defensive zone, he's not going to pull attention away from Tarasenko/ROR in the offensive zone, etc...all things that could potentially add a nice dimension to a ROR/Tarasenko line.

You might get a few less goals/points out of Maroon (and perhaps even a less effective player overall) by playing him elsewhere, but I think you'll potentially see more effective lines overall if you do...particularly when it comes to the top line.

Time will tell, I guess. The Blues are clearly interested in giving the combination a shot, and we'll be able to see the positives and negatives well enough after 5-10 games.

 

[Celtic Note]

I agree Easton. It’s not a line, in theory that I am excited about for many of the reasons you share and a few more. That line is slow. How will they fair against a line with any real speed? The positive is that Maroon and ROR can retrieve pucks and that is something Tarasenko doesn’t care to do. So, in theory, there is a chance that they will have some puck possession.

When the opposition has the puck (it could be fairly often) then ROR better have his work boots on, because he is the only one on that line with defensive capabilities.

That leads to another concern. ROR is by far our best defensive forward, especially at center. If we are ever to play the matchup game, we need him to shutdown the opposition. That’s going to be nearly impossible with Maroon and Tarasenko. So, what line takes that responsibility then? Is it Schwartz and Schenn? They are defensively responsible, but not shutdown guys, especially Schenn (who also isn’t great at face offs). Then there is the Bozak line. Need I say more? Essentially, having the ROR line as constructed negates line matching effectively. This is the biggest reason why I want to see Blais, Kyrou and Thomas on this team as opposed to the more typical 4th liners. We cannot line match, so we need to overpower/ use our depth to beat other teams.

 

[ManyIdeas]

Another thought with ROR being our best defensive forward, if he and Tarasenko/Maroon are out there against the opponents best lines, could his defensive prowess cause matchup issues for them as well? Obvious exceptions would likely be Boston/Florida with Bergeron/Marchand/Barkov being incredible all around.

 

[Robb_K]

I thought this thread was supposed to be about Kyrou, - not Maroon! Based on Kyrou's play, so far, I'd rather see HIM on Line 1 or 2, and Maroon on Line 3 or 4. I'd try Perron with Schwartz and Schenn, and Kyrou with O'Reilly and Tarasenko, and Steen, Bozak, and Fabbri, and Blais, Thomas, and Barbashev, until Thomas is ready to centre Line 3. Maroon could fill in for Fabbri until the latter is ready. After that, the lineup could be constantly shuffled to cover injuries and provide rest for players, and to give Maroon some work. Hard to find a regular spot for Maroon. Steen will need more rest than last season. But, I see some platooning. I don't see ANY room for Thorburn and Sundqvist. Soshnikov and Sanford are available to fill in for multiple injuries.

 

[Celtic Note]

Just got sent down to the Rampage.

 

[izzy]

eh makes enough sense

 

[Stealth JD]

he'll be back in a few weeks...let him build some confidence and come back after they've sorted some **** out.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I would’ve loved to have seen him on the pp before putting him in SA. But st least maybe he’ll find some more consistency there in deployment and line mates

 

[BlueDream]

He won't be back until there's injuries. He's not one of the 12 best forwards on the Blues.

 

[TK 421]

While I love Kyrou's speed and creativity he seems to have some trouble realizing when a defender is close enough to strip a puck off him. Noticed it a few times over his last couple games. I know it seems like a minor detail but I recall 2 of those turnovers resulting in scoring chances going the other way so I can understand this move. I think he'll really benefit from some time in S.A.

 

[Blanick]

He won't be back until there's injuries. He's not one of the 12 best forwards on the Blues.

I would argue from a pure skill perspective he is but he isn't yet in the top9 skilled forwards which is where he needs to play to be effective. No qualms with him getting sent down, I have actually been calling for it for a out a week now. Let him get top6 minutes and PP time down in SA and build confidence up. We will likely need him later when/if injuries pile up.

 

[Dbrownss]

While I love Kyrou's speed and creativity he seems to have some trouble realizing when a defender is close enough to strip a puck off him. Noticed it a few times over his last couple games. I know it seems like a minor detail but I recall 2 of those turnovers resulting in scoring chances going the other way so I can understand this move. I think he'll really benefit from some time in S.A.

I dont know what I'd attribute that to. I don't think he realizes just how fast he is. The times he lost the puck, he slowed down to "make a play". He needs to hit the line at full speed and back defenders off or chip it in and go get it.

 

[Mike Liut]

I dont know what I'd attribute that to. I don't think he realizes just how fast he is. The times he lost the puck, he slowed down to "make a play". He needs to hit the line at full speed and back defenders off or chip it in and go get it.

He needs to watch Patrick Kane’s highlight reel over and over and over. He can be that type of player if he wants to.

 

[Ranksu]

I only remember about Maroon had one good fight in this season and he had excatly two same type of empty nets and he didn't even hit the puck. I don't remember who would have worse hand eye coordination then Maroon. He's just juice head meat who is good standing front of net and can fight if need. I don't see what else he brings to team. I view Jaskin would have been same to team too if he would get same type of icetime then Maroon + Jaskin is far more physical hit machine then Maroon.

Funny that Blais has record more hits then Maroon.

Positive side note is Parayko has start to play physical game comapre to previous seasons.

Sorry OT.

 

[TK 421]

I dont know what I'd attribute that to. I don't think he realizes just how fast he is. The times he lost the puck, he slowed down to "make a play". He needs to hit the line at full speed and back defenders off or chip it in and go get it.

Agreed, a soft chip was the correct play on the couple that went back the other way imo.

 

[Brian39]

I only remember about Maroon had one good fight in this season and he had excatly two same type of empty nets and he didn't even hit the puck. I don't remember who would have worse hand eye coordination then Maroon. He's just juice head meat who is good standing front of net and can fight if need. I don't see what else he brings to team. I view Jaskin would have been same to team too if he would get same type of icetime then Maroon + Jaskin is far more physical hit machine then Maroon.

Funny that Blais has record more hits then Maroon.

Positive side note is Parayko has start to play physical game comapre to previous seasons.

Sorry OT.

I'm not in love with Maroon's game, but he has 6 assists through 10 games and (like it or not) we are running our PP in part through that side of the net jam play. Our PP is 4th in the NHL, so I have a hard time criticizing that. Downplay the skill required to stand in front of the net, but no one did it last year and Tarasenko clearly found a net front presence useful when he beat a blinded Crawford on Saturday.

Maroon is 8th among forwards in even strength ATOI, so it is clear that his biggest role is on the PP. I can't criticize that role since he is 2nd on the team in PP points and the PP is rolling. I'm hoping that from here on out we use him like a bottom 6 forward at even strength and let him pad stats on the PP.

 

[blueper]

Yep. Maroon needs to play 4th line type of minutes, but the Barby-Thomas-Sunny line looked pretty good vs. Hawks and Maroon would slow that down. I see Maroon getting some points on the power play but I think anyone placed in that position would have as many or more. He has poor hand-eye coordination, and just looks clumsy mostly. Right now he is hard to like as a player unless you have the big guy = physical guy with intimidating presence viewpoint.
He's had a couple big hits. And Panger seems to love him.
Kyrou will be back later in the year and he will be better next time IMO.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I’m gonna go to the game Sunday in Bakersfield so I’ll make sure to keep an eye on his, Blais, and Kostin’s game.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I'm not in love with Maroon's game, but he has 6 assists through 10 games and (like it or not) we are running our PP in part through that side of the net jam play. Our PP is 4th in the NHL, so I have a hard time criticizing that. Downplay the skill required to stand in front of the net, but no one did it last year and Tarasenko clearly found a net front presence useful when he beat a blinded Crawford on Saturday.

Maroon is 8th among forwards in even strength ATOI, so it is clear that his biggest role is on the PP. I can't criticize that role since he is 2nd on the team in PP points and the PP is rolling. I'm hoping that from here on out we use him like a bottom 6 forward at even strength and let him pad stats on the PP.

A whole lot of plays die on Maroon's stick on the PP, and literally anyone can jam the puck into a goalie's pads from 2 feet out. If that's his big contribution, the Blues would be better off with almost anyone else doing it. Unless you think Maroon is simply better at that play than someone like Steen would be?

You listed the one time this year that Maroon set a screen that resulted in a goal. We're 12% of the way into the season and it's happened once that I remember. Is it really adding that much to the team?

Edit: I just went back and watched all the Blues goals. It didn't take long. Here are the whos and how manys in terms of screens:

ROR - 2
Barbashev - 2
Steen - 2
Maroon - 1
Tarasenko - 1

Maroon has 1 more than a large number of other guys, but considering that's his special "niche" on offense and he's getting a ton of PP time in that role, he really doesn't have much to show for it. Zero goals, and one screen set that's resulted in a goal. I'm extremely skeptical that what he's currently doing is really adding any value over the other alternatives we have at our disposal, and I think the overall impact of his "net front presence" is being overstated in general right now...so far, at least.

He should be a bottom six option, and on the 2nd PP unit (if he's on one at all). For the price we're paying for him, that's perfectly fine. I just don't think we should be making his contributions out to be more than they actually are.

 

[Reality Czech]

I only remember about Maroon had one good fight in this season and he had excatly two same type of empty nets and he didn't even hit the puck. I don't remember who would have worse hand eye coordination then Maroon. He's just juice head meat who is good standing front of net and can fight if need. I don't see what else he brings to team. I view Jaskin would have been same to team too if he would get same type of icetime then Maroon + Jaskin is far more physical hit machine then Maroon.

Funny that Blais has record more hits then Maroon.

Positive side note is Parayko has start to play physical game comapre to previous seasons.

Sorry OT.

You should be sorry.

 

[542365]

I'm a huge Kyrou fan(voted for him over Thomas in the prospect poll), but this is the right move. If he's not going to get playing time in the NHL he should have the opportunity to be the guy in SA. Hopefully that means plenty of time on the PP and with top linemates. He's certainly among our 12 most talented forwards, but he's not going to displace any veterans. His ticket back into the lineup is an injury to a skill player or a guy like Sanford playing his way off the team. He'll get his opportunity. I only wish Thomas could get the same opportunity.