Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - So comman Edition

[Habs Icing]

I'm not that petty...not for nonsense like that at least

Yeah, of course, your last 3/4 posts prove you're not that petty.

 

[417]

I didn't answer your question because I have some doubts about Sergachev's defensive play. Offensively, I have no doubts. So I did answer your question. Sergachev will look good offensively no matter what team he's on. Drouin has a bad attitude no matter what team he's on. had one in tampa and had one here last year. Let's trade him and see if my intuition is correct.

Which was fine...I just don't know why you felt the need to add me playing devil's advocate...I asked you a question, which you responded after your needless swipe at me.

 

[Kriss E]

I don't think Alex Galchenyuk is any more of a natural center than Jonathan is a center....they've both shown an aptitude to play both positions to varying degrees of success. But reading this thread, you'd think Galchenyuk was Patrice Bergeron down the middle.

For the time being, and it doesn't appear as though this is going to change no matter how much we beat each other over the head, Galchenyuk is a winger and Drouin a center.

I don't think Drouin had a very good year as a center, but I did think he made some progress (aka development) towards the last quarter of the year (which probably was mostly result of his TOI spiking up) and that given they invested an entire season in converting him to center, it would make no sense to now move him back to center and put Galchenyuk back in the middle. THAT's, what would be hypocritical.

You realize Bergevin himself doesn't think Drouin should play center right? He said so himself.
He is only going forward with this strategy because it gives him leeway if he can't secure getting a top centerman this summer.
This is a PR stunt by Bergevin. That's really all it is.

 

[417]

You realize Bergevin himself doesn't think Drouin should play center right? He said so himself.
He is only going forward with this strategy because it gives him leeway if he can't secure getting a top centerman this summer.
This is a PR stunt by Bergevin. That's really all it is.

Agreed but as I said before...I don't care what comes out of his mouth, it's hot air as far as I'm concerned.

Drouin barring the unlikely scenario of Bergrvin landing 2 top 6C's IS going to play center.

And I do believe he has the ability to get better as a center with more reps and a better supporting cast around him.

 

[Gravity]

Agreed but as I said before...I don't care what comes out of his mouth, it's hot air as far as I'm concerned.

Drouin barring the unlikely scenario of Bergrvin landing 2 top 6C's IS going to play center.

And I do believe he has the ability to get better as a center with more reps and a better supporting cast around him.

really? so the hypocrisy continues for 2 seasons......? Why not try Galchenyuk there.......

 

[417]

really? so the hypocrisy continues for 2 seasons......? Why not try Galchenyuk there.......

I also believed Galchenyuk would of gotten better as a center with more reps.

So I'm being consistent here...I don't want them to repeat with Drouin, what they did with Galchenyuk.

 

[Laurentide]

I realize that everyone is down on the team because of the year it just had but last season was an outlier even by Bergevinian standards. Drouin is a 22 year old kid who was thrust into the #1 center role with little support because our overall talent level just isn't there. He will hopefully have learned some hard lessons and be better next season and the same could be said for a few of the regulars who had a down year. Even Alzner has the potential to suck just a little bit less next season.

Drouin, unlike someone such as Danault or Deslauriers, who are probably playing as well as they're ever going to play, has real, legitimate, elite level offensive talent. The Habs didn't trade for a center or a winger; they traded for a highly-skilled offensive talent because it was an area of need; a greater area of need than the need for a puck-moving defenseman. That's why he's here and Sergachev isn't.

If it were up to me I'd play Galchenyuk at center with Drouin on his wing but Drouin in the top six is a thing that needs to happen regardless. This team needs his skill, speed and offensive abilities.

 

[Sorinth]

What does that mean? After watching him play last year you think Drouin is capable of playing center?

Well you said MB admitted he wasn't a center as if that is proof of some kind. MB has already shown he can't evaluate who is/isn't a good center so him saying Drouin isn't a center is completely meaningless.

 

[Sorinth]

It's a mistake for both. Drouin isn't a goddamn center, and Galchy is better at center. Not rocket science. They're making mistakes with both players. How is that good?

Galchenyuk is better at center, and is a better center then Drouin. Yet that doesn't mean Drouin can't become a good center, he just needs time to adjust, and learn from his mistakes. Moving him to wing now is repeating the same mistakes we made with Galchenyuk, not giving him enough time to learn and improve.

Like I said before, simply claiming Drouin isn't a center and is better as a winger is exactly what Therrien did. Whether you are right or wrong about whether the player is better as a winger or center it's still a mistake to put them at wing.

 

[417]

Well you said MB admitted he wasn't a center as if that is proof of some kind. MB has already shown he can't evaluate who is/isn't a good center so him saying Drouin isn't a center is completely meaningless.

Kinda funny to see shifting opinions on Bergevin depending on what he says...

Typically, everything/anything that comes out of his mouth is seen negatively here, he's an idiot that can do no right...

yet he says "in an ideal world Drouin is a winger"...

and all of a sudden his word is bond again.

 

[Canadienna]

Kinda funny to see shifting opinions on Bergevin depending on what he says...

Typically, everything/anything that comes out of his mouth is seen negatively here, he's an idiot that can do no right...

yet he says "in an ideal world Drouin is a winger"...

and all of a sudden his word is bond again.

Anyone can see that in an ideal world Drouin IS a winger.

Nobody thought our defence was going to be better this year - that was clear at the time that it wasn't true.

Just because somebody spews bull-shit most of the time doesn't mean they can't be right.

 

[417]

Anyone can see that in an ideal world Drouin IS a winger.

Nobody thought our defence was going to be better this year - that was clear at the time that it wasn't true.

Just because somebody spews bull-**** most of the time doesn't mean they can't be right.

I guess it depends on if you agree with what he says I suppose

 

[Sorinth]

Just because somebody spews bull-**** most of the time doesn't mean they can't be right.

If 90% of what someone says is BS, then even when he's right that 10% of the time he shouldn't be used to prop up an argument.

I mean sure a broken clock can be right twice a day, but if I was trying to convince someone what time it was I wouldn't bring up the broken clock as proof of the current time even if it was showing the right time in that moment.

 

[Canadienna]

If 90% of what someone says is BS, then even when he's right that 10% of the time he shouldn't be used to prop up an argument.

I mean sure a broken clock can be right twice a day, but if I was trying to convince someone what time it was I wouldn't bring up the broken clock as proof of the current time even if it was showing the right time in that moment.

Clocks and GMs differ in more than a few ways.

Bergevin may be inept but he said what everyone else in the hockey media was already saying. Do what you like, believe it or not.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Kinda funny to see shifting opinions on Bergevin depending on what he says...

Typically, everything/anything that comes out of his mouth is seen negatively here, he's an idiot that can do no right...

yet he says "in an ideal world Drouin is a winger"...

and all of a sudden his word is bond again.

are you trying to say Bergevin is a smart person here ? ? ?

 

[Habs Icing]

Well you said MB admitted he wasn't a center as if that is proof of some kind. MB has already shown he can't evaluate who is/isn't a good center so him saying Drouin isn't a center is completely meaningless.

If a fool should persist in his folly, he shall become wise.
-William Blake

Even an idiot like MB can learn. Unless you think he's on the level of a door knob.

 

[Sorinth]

If a fool should persist in his folly, he shall become wise.
-William Blake

Even an idiot like MB can learn. Unless you think he's on the level of a door knob.

What am I supposed to take from this. If we keep Bergevin as GM for the next 20 years he'll eventually have learnt some things be a good GM?

 

[Sorinth]

are you trying to say Bergevin is a smart person here ? ? ?

I think he's saying Bergevin is an idiot so no matter what he says we should ignore it.

 

[Kriss E]

Agreed but as I said before...I don't care what comes out of his mouth, it's hot air as far as I'm concerned.

Drouin barring the unlikely scenario of Bergrvin landing 2 top 6C's IS going to play center.

And I do believe he has the ability to get better as a center with more reps and a better supporting cast around him.

Well I don't think it will need two top centers. Bergevin needs to get one center that he feels is better than Drouin, from there, he probably re-signs Plekanec and also has Danault.
Even if he doesn't re-sign Plek or any other depth center, I could see them use Danault as the #2, as they did this year.

Becoming ''better'' at center should not be what we are looking for when it comes to Drouin. We should be going for his max potential playmaking winger. I don't want him to become a 50pt centerman. We have had those for years, it's pointless.
I want him to become that incredible winger he was drafted to become, popping in the 70-80pts. That is what we should be working towards with Drouin. Not crossing our fingers that he could hopefully adapt at center and become decent. f*** that man.
I mean, of course, the more he plays at center, the more comfortable he will become, and the better his wingers, well the better he will also be. That applies to anybody, but it's a loser's plan.
Excellence is what we should be looking at. We can't miss with Drouin. We traded away a solid young D that would have become our best puck mover as a rookie last year, who definitely, himself, looks like his headed towards excellence. So we need the same from Drouin. We need to put him in his comfortable position, which is the wing, and bring him support.
Not thrust him into a position he clearly struggled in, and hope he goes from mediocre to good.

 

[Kriss E]

Kinda funny to see shifting opinions on Bergevin depending on what he says...

Typically, everything/anything that comes out of his mouth is seen negatively here, he's an idiot that can do no right...

yet he says "in an ideal world Drouin is a winger"...

and all of a sudden his word is bond again.

You can't just brush everything aside, or believe his every word either. You have to be able to screen through the BS.
There would be zero reason for him to say he believes Drouin, in an ideal world, is on the wing, if he didn't actually believe it.
Him saying PK (or any other player) isn't being traded, well ya, we can take that with a grain of salt as GM never divulge this info unless a player made it clear he wants to be moved.

But people call him an idiot because of his decisions and his opinions, not because they think he is lying all the time.
When he said ''the defense is better'' before last season, nobody thinks he was lying about this, they think he is a complete idiot.

So whether or not you think Bergevin is just an idiot and feel Drouin is a fine centerman is pretty irrelevant here. The point is Bergevin himself thinks Drouin should play wing.

 

[Kriss E]

I think he's saying Bergevin is an idiot so no matter what he says we should ignore it.

Why should we ignore it? It isn't inconsistent.
Drouin didn't have a good season, he struggled at center, and he has been a winger for quite some time.
Even Bergevin realizes it.

If I ask a bunch of my friends the answer to a simple problem, but they can't find it, only the idiot in the back that finds the answer..you can laugh and say ''even this idiot knew they answer!''.
No different here. Doesn't matter whether Bergevin is an idiot or not, point is, Drouin didn't have that good of a season, he was used off position, and if we had better centers, fact is he would have been used on the wing.

 

[Scriptor]

I give up when people start putting words in a person's mouth because it suits their narrative and then decide to interpret what a person says that doesn't suit the same narrative.

It's the type of argument style that zealots employ to always be right. It's actually quite scary. It's for those that try to brainwash or those that are brainwashed.

 

[Belial]

Well I don't think it will need two top centers. Bergevin needs to get one center that he feels is better than Drouin, from there, he probably re-signs Plekanec and also has Danault.
Even if he doesn't re-sign Plek or any other depth center, I could see them use Danault as the #2, as they did this year.

Becoming ''better'' at center should not be what we are looking for when it comes to Drouin. We should be going for his max potential playmaking winger. I don't want him to become a 50pt centerman. We have had those for years, it's pointless.
I want him to become that incredible winger he was drafted to become, popping in the 70-80pts. That is what we should be working towards with Drouin. Not crossing our fingers that he could hopefully adapt at center and become decent. **** that man.
I mean, of course, the more he plays at center, the more comfortable he will become, and the better his wingers, well the better he will also be. That applies to anybody, but it's a loser's plan.
Excellence is what we should be looking at. We can't miss with Drouin. We traded away a solid young D that would have become our best puck mover as a rookie last year, who definitely, himself, looks like his headed towards excellence. So we need the same from Drouin. We need to put him in his comfortable position, which is the wing, and bring him support.
Not thrust him into a position he clearly struggled in, and hope he goes from mediocre to good.

One question for you.

Do you think players are unable to get better even if played in so-called "not the right position"?

 

[Sorinth]

Why should we ignore it? It isn't inconsistent.
Drouin didn't have a good season, he struggled at center, and he has been a winger for quite some time.
Even Bergevin realizes it.

If I ask a bunch of my friends the answer to a simple problem, but they can't find it, only the idiot in the back that finds the answer..you can laugh and say ''even this idiot knew they answer!''.
No different here. Doesn't matter whether Bergevin is an idiot or not, point is, Drouin didn't have that good of a season, he was used off position, and if we had better centers, fact is he would have been used on the wing.

Drouin being good enough at center is purely subjective, that's why an idiot's opinion doesn't matter, because it's an opinion not a right/wrong answer.

 

[Kriss E]

One question for you.

Do you think players are unable to get better even if played in so-called "not the right position"?

Of course they can.

Now answer me this, should the objective be to make a player improve in his unnatural position...or thrive at his natural one?

Improving over mediocrity shouldn't be the standard. Thriving for excellence should.