Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - So comman Edition

[Belial]

Of course they can.

Now answer me this, should the objective be to make a player improve in his unnatural position...or thrive at his natural one?

Improving over mediocrity shouldn't be the standard. Thriving for excellence should.

And who's the judge about that natural position?

 

[Kriss E]

And who's the judge about that natural position?

You did not answer my question.

And don't argue for the sake of it.

 

[Kriss E]

Drouin being good enough at center is purely subjective, that's why an idiot's opinion doesn't matter, because it's an opinion not a right/wrong answer.

Pretty much everything is subjective. That's not an argument.

 

[Belial]

You did not answer my question.

And don't argue for the sake of it.

I mean I did answer your question...

 

[Kriss E]

I mean I did answer your question...

You wrote words to avoid answering the actual question. You sidetracked by posting another question.

 

[Belial]

You wrote words to avoiding answering the actual question. You sidetracked by posting another question.

The answer is there, you're just way too obtuse to understand.

 

[Kriss E]

The answer is there, you're just way too obtuse to understand.

moving on.

 

[Bryson]

The answer is there, you're just way too obtuse to understand.

Belial calling someone obtuse. Do you even own a mirror buddy?

 

[Belial]

moving on.

Sure, cuz you have no actual answer to my question? So lame...

Belial calling someone obtuse. Do you even own a mirror buddy?

Mirror owns me buddy.

 

[417]

Well I don't think it will need two top centers. Bergevin needs to get one center that he feels is better than Drouin, from there, he probably re-signs Plekanec and also has Danault.
Even if he doesn't re-sign Plek or any other depth center, I could see them use Danault as the #2, as they did this year.

Becoming ''better'' at center should not be what we are looking for when it comes to Drouin. We should be going for his max potential playmaking winger. I don't want him to become a 50pt centerman. We have had those for years, it's pointless.
I want him to become that incredible winger he was drafted to become, popping in the 70-80pts. That is what we should be working towards with Drouin. Not crossing our fingers that he could hopefully adapt at center and become decent. **** that man.
I mean, of course, the more he plays at center, the more comfortable he will become, and the better his wingers, well the better he will also be. That applies to anybody, but it's a loser's plan.
Excellence is what we should be looking at. We can't miss with Drouin. We traded away a solid young D that would have become our best puck mover as a rookie last year, who definitely, himself, looks like his headed towards excellence. So we need the same from Drouin. We need to put him in his comfortable position, which is the wing, and bring him support.
Not thrust him into a position he clearly struggled in, and hope he goes from mediocre to good.

If you think Drouin can be a 70-80pt winger...I'm not sure why you don' think he can be a 70-80pt center then...

You don't want him to become a 50pt center? That's a 30pt swing from what you think he could top out as a winger.

You think playing wing vs center affects his stats to that degree?

 

[Kriss E]

Sure, cuz you have no actual answer to my question? So lame...

Technically I answered your question...hihi..call me Belial.

 

[Belial]

Technically I answered your question...hihi..call me Belial.

And what is your answer?

 

[Doc McKenna]

And who's the judge about that natural position?

MAYBE by the position they were drafted for and played. Might be a good idea.

 

[Doc McKenna]

The answer is there, you're just way too obtuse to understand.

Oh yeah that must be it.

 

[Belial]

MAYBE by the position they were drafted for and played. Might be a good idea.

And what about that?

The last time Chucky has played center before getting drafted was when he was 16 years old!

So he's a center, right?

Pleaseee

 

[Kriss E]

If you think Drouin can be a 70-80pt winger...I'm not sure why you don' think he can be a 70-80pt center then...

You don't want him to become a 50pt center? That's a 30pt swing from what you think he could top out as a winger.

You think playing wing vs center affects his stats to that degree?

30 was just a number, it doesn't have to be specifically that. But absolutely, I think things are not as simple as ''let's put a forward at any position and he will reach his potential".
If that were the case, teams would not lack centers. We could just take our best forward, Max, and put him at center. He would have been just as good right? No. Doesn't work like that.
Now I know what you'll say, Drouin has more attributes for the center position than Max. So for him, it might make sense.
But I personally disagree, I don't think Drouin should play at center. You look at this previous season as the positive step developing into a top center. I think we just wasted one season. He is young and needs to perfect his craft at the NHL level. He didn't come in and dominate. Young players need to be put in a spot where they can really excel.
That's why you don't throw rookies on the top line or make young Dman head straight to the first pair. Getting top match ups and responsibilities. When you do that, you limit the development because they will play with the puck less, they will have less time to make plays and express creativity, etc.
Everything is related.

So no, I don't think Drouin learned much of anything last year. He is a PP winger. At ES, he needs to be a complimentary player, not the top center. That is not going to work.
Make him a comfortable winger though, versus weaker opponents, double shift him on the PP. Make him the PP QB up front. Once he blossoms there, then shift him at center if we are very desperate.
What we did is just throw him to the wolves. That's not good.

 

[Belial]

30 was just a number, it doesn't have to be specifically that. But absolutely, I think things are not as simple as ''let's put a forward at any position and he will reach his potential".
If that were the case, teams would not lack centers. We could just take our best forward, Max, and put him at center. He would have been just as good right? No. Doesn't work like that.
Now I know what you'll say, Drouin has more attributes for the center position than Max. So for him, it might make sense.
But I personally disagree, I don't think Drouin should play at center. You look at this previous season as the positive step developing into a top center. I think we just wasted one season. He is young and needs to perfect his craft at the NHL level. He didn't come in and dominate. Young players need to be put in a spot where they can really excel.
That's why you don't throw rookies on the top line or make young Dman head straight to the first pair. Getting top match ups and responsibilities. When you do that, you limit the development because they will play with the puck less, they will have less time to make plays and express creativity, etc.
Everything is related.

So no, I don't think Drouin learned much of anything last year. He is a PP winger. At ES, he needs to be a complimentary player, not the top center. That is not going to work.
Make him a comfortable winger though, versus weaker opponents, double shift him on the PP. Make him the PP QB up front. Once he blossoms there, then shift him at center if we are very desperate.
What we did is just throw him to the wolves. That's not good.

What are Drouin's biggest assets in your opinion?

 

[Habs Halifax]

What are Drouin's biggest assets in your opinion?

He is unable to talk about positives because the focus is everything being a pessimistic approach... Hero or Zero evaluation. If we didn't make the Drouin/Sergachev trade, the same pessimistic approach would of been taken towards Sergachev this past year cause he would of not look good on our roster. Comments would of been... should of drafted Jost instead.

Drouin's biggest assets are skating and he has tons of skill. His passing and shooting are elite level. Problem will always be he is a soft type. Maybe he bulks up a bit from age 25-30 but I don't ever expect him to be winning puck battles. His value is on the PP

 

[417]

30 was just a number, it doesn't have to be specifically that. But absolutely, I think things are not as simple as ''let's put a forward at any position and he will reach his potential".
If that were the case, teams would not lack centers. We could just take our best forward, Max, and put him at center. He would have been just as good right? No. Doesn't work like that.
Now I know what you'll say, Drouin has more attributes for the center position than Max. So for him, it might make sense.
But I personally disagree, I don't think Drouin should play at center. You look at this previous season as the positive step developing into a top center. I think we just wasted one season. He is young and needs to perfect his craft at the NHL level. He didn't come in and dominate. Young players need to be put in a spot where they can really excel.

I think you said it perfectly here, he's still young and needs to perfect his craft at the NHL level...this is part of development we keep shredding the team for not doing.

Well development isn't always an upwards trajectory...sometimes players take 1 step back in order to take 2 forward, we've seen this before with Carey Price, Max Pacioretty and even PK Subban to some degree.

Maybe i'm just being too optimistic, that's in my nature, but I do think last season can serve as a jump off point for Drouin...

But as it relates to production at center vs. wing...I just don't reach you on that argument, I think there are more circumstances that affect point production than simply where a player lines up for a faceoff (not neglecting the inherent responsibilities playing wing vs center either mind you).

I think TOI, quality of linemates, hockey sense, etc affect production way more than just playing wing vs center, at least IMO.

That's why you don't throw rookies on the top line or make young Dman head straight to the first pair. Getting top match ups and responsibilities. When you do that, you limit the development because they will play with the puck less, they will have less time to make plays and express creativity, etc.
Everything is related.

I don't think that's a steadfast rule, different players and different teams handle things differently...look at Charlie MacAvoy, he averaged just over 22 mins a game playing the top pair with Zdeno Chara, it didn't seem like it ruined him this year, but that's because he was put in a position to succeed (playing next to Chara) and most importantly, he had a coach who believed in him and kept using him even if he made mistakes.

This old school strategy of sheltering young players while at the same time trusting veterans who make the same mistakes, is long gone IMO...it's a young man's league, more and more teams are going to start trusting their younger player with more responsibility, that's where the game is going IMO.

So no, I don't think Drouin learned much of anything last year. He is a PP winger. At ES, he needs to be a complimentary player, not the top center. That is not going to work.
Make him a comfortable winger though, versus weaker opponents, double shift him on the PP. Make him the PP QB up front. Once he blossoms there, then shift him at center if we are very desperate.

I'm not sure how you can be so categorical on that, how do you know he didn't learn anything last year? He was an awful faceoff guy for the first 60 games last year...by the end of the year, he was much more consistent in that department.

That's one thing learned from last year...

But maybe you will be right and Drouin will come back this year having learned nothing, if that's the case, then i've terribly misjudged the type of player I think he could/can be...wouldn't be the first time.

What we did is just throw him to the wolves. That's not good.

Agreed with that...and that falls on the GM.

Either way, while we don't agree about Drouin's ability to play center...I think we both agree that if the Habs are going to continue using him there, they need to provide him with more support.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

We all know what drouin's biggest asset is....problem is it has nothing to do with playing hockey

#GarsDeChezNous

 

[Scriptor]

We all know what drouin's biggest asset is....problem is it has nothing to do with playing hockey

#GarsDeChezNous

A joke? Or stupidity? Clearly, insinuating that Drouin is not even a good hockey player is daft, at best. I'm hoping it's a joke and you were being sarcastic. Otherwise, you need help...

 

[AshyHabs]

We all know what drouin's biggest asset is....problem is it has nothing to do with playing hockey

#GarsDeChezNous

Glad to see some people here see right through the bullshit.

 

[sandviper]

What are Drouin's biggest assets in your opinion?

The assets that come to mind when I think of Drouin is effort, dedication and his 200-foot game.

Lack-of also comes to mind when describing each asset.

 

[The Great Weal]

Drouin probably has the highest french/60 on the team

 

[nhlfan9191]

And what is your answer?

You keep blasting people for never giving answers they give you and never offer anything of substance yourself. When you do try, you either screw up the stats or bend the goal posts. Just stop. The day Bergevin is fired is the day you’ll be free. I can hardly wait to read your posts post-Bergevin era and see where you’re at.