Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - Guy Laflamme edition

[Habs Halifax]

It's true. Gaudreau would struggle on our roster. Maybe not as much as Drouin but Gaudreau is not putting up 80-90 pts on our roster. Our fan base wouldn't take to long to throw him under the bus like we are with Drouin.

Reality. Habs top 9 is solid in terms of youth and speed but we lack grit and we lack strong puck possession centers with skill. Kotkaniemi is 18 and not ready to take a top 2C role yet. Danault is a 3C and Domi should be moved to wing once Poehling is ready.

The truth will scare you

 

[Habs Halifax]

And the highest paid forward....but he's not vet that i admit. Were you saying the same for Galchenyuk?

I will always say the same for players like Drouin and Galchenyuk who are still young NHL players. Some show their ceiling potential earlier and a lot show their ceiling potential from 25-30. It's not Drouin's fault he is the highest paid forward at $5.5M. That's not saying much.

 

[Habs Halifax]

These 2 players aren't even close, so no, the results would not be the same.

The results in a soft style offensive player struggling on our roster cause we have too many already would be the same. Gaudreau plays a similar game as Drouin (not saying they are the exact same skill). Do you think Gaudreau puts up 80-90 pts on our roster playing with Danault or Domi instead of Monahan?

Let me guess... Gaudreau fixes our PP right?

 

[NotProkofievian]

It's true. Gaudreau would struggle on our roster. Maybe not as much as Drouin but Gaudreau is not putting up 80-90 pts on our roster. Our fan base wouldn't take to long to throw him under the bus like we are with Drouin.

Reality. Habs top 9 is solid in terms of youth and speed but we lack grit and we lack strong puck possession centers with skill. Kotkaniemi is 18 and not ready to take a top 2C role yet. Danault is a 3C and Domi should be moved to wing once Poehling is ready.

Yeah, you really have the cart in front of the horse, here. Ask the question in reverse: if Drouin were on Calgary, do you really think that he'd be pacing over 100 pts?

The truth will scare you

That's literally a gif of a woman being afraid of unreality. Like, as if she were shown the inner contents of a mind who thinks that Drouin and Gaudreau are even remotely comparable players in terms of quality.

 

[Habs Icing]

Last night, lost his man going to the net, boom tie game...he was 6 ft behind him, trying to lift his stick?? He stopped skating, if he hadn't he would have been able to get rid of that rebound laying there for Foligno. Just terrible on his side of the ice...I would bench him just to send a huge message.

He is a very talented player, but his efforts on the D side of the puck are horrible most nights. Terribly inconsistent most nights. Spectacular the others, makes no sense.

Normally, I would agree with you but posting this after last night is a little unfair. Drouin was engaged on the defensive side of the puck for most of the night. I have absolutely no issues with him if he brings this sort of game on the nights he isn't wowing us with his spectacular offensive plays. Offensively last night he was basically not there but that's okay. If he brings his offensive game let's on 25-30 games out of the year and the rest he plays like he did last night he'll become an extremely valuable player.

Now the million dollar question. Can he bring that defensive awareness on a regular basis? He did last last night. I'm hoping he will.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The 2nd PP unit has really hurt this team. The 1st unit has been better but incredibly inconsistent. I’m not denying he’s a good PP player. Like I said in a previous post, if he has space, he’s good at utalizing it and making nice plays. I get frustrated with the dangerous passes that turn into odd man rushes, the lack of back checking, and his lack of consistency. I thought moving him to the wing would help cover up some of his defeciency’s in those areas but he’s been just as much of a liability as when he was playing center. And that’s essentially what he has been since coming here. A complete liability to the team when he isn’t producing. He’s young, so I want to believe these things are fixable but a lot of the time it’s not if it’s between the ears and his short NHL career so far is indicating that is likely the case.

I agree the 1st unit is much better than the 2nd but that applies to a lot of other teams in the pack we are in. We also agree if he has space, he is good at utilizing it. But isn't that his game? The problem here is thinking Drouin turns into a power forward winger. It's not happing. He is a play making winger who plays a soft game and is still maturing and figuring things out at age 23.

The decisions he makes in our end or neutral zone is the issue. He will learn. He's not dumb.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah, you really have the cart in front of the horse, here. Ask the question in reverse: if Drouin were on Calgary, do you really think that he'd be pacing over 100 pts?

That's literally a gif of a woman being afraid of unreality. Like, as if she were shown the inner contents of a mind who thinks that Drouin and Gaudreau are even remotely comparable players in terms of quality.

I think Drouin fits on the Flames more than he does on the Habs. Guys like Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm in their top 6. They have a good mix of grit and skill and Gaudreau skating and skill compliments that very well. Not saying Drouin puts up 80+ points or 100 pts with the Flames but he puts up more than 65 on that roster and looks better.

It's virtual reality... a prediction of what it would look like cause we don't know for sure and can only predict.

Imagine if we kept Radulov. His game would compliment Drouin skills very well IMO. Drouin needs a puck protection forward with grit and skill to play with.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's making 5.5M$ per year for god sake!

You expect out of him some Kucherov or Tavares **** by reading your posts! Maybe you should reevaluate your expectations or something?

Your incessant whining is just ridiculous!

Keep putting pressure on him though, he will definitely perform better...

The highest paid forward at $5.5M is not saying much. It's not Drouin's fault that Radulov was not re-signed and would be our highest paid forward. Imagine what our top 9 looks like with Radulov in the mix and what Drouin could do then?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well, that is one of two things.
1. Hearing problem which the Lightning should have disclosed to us before we traded for him.
2. He does not have the capacity in the cranial region to process what he is told to do.

How so? Hasn't Drouin matured in his time with the Habs so far? Why can't we expect more maturity for a 23 year old moving forward? Are we really jumping on his back cause he is the highest paid forward at $5.5M? Like seriously?

He's making risky plays in his own end and neutral zone. He will adjust and he may make a mistake again but they will be less as time moves forward. He's got more maturity to go yet.

 

[Curtoph]

The highest paid forward at $5.5M is not saying much. It's not Drouin's fault that Radulov was not re-signed and would be our highest paid forward. Imagine what our top 9 looks like with Radulov in the mix and what Drouin could do then?

I would rather have Kotkanemi than Radulov

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would rather have Kotkanemi than Radulov

I hear year. But it's possible we get both. Weber and Price down for most of the year still results in a bottom 10 finish with Radulov. Lets say we don't get Kotkaniemi... maybe we have Tkachuk, Hughes, or Boqvist instead?

 

[OldCraig71]

1) It's not about how good Drouin is when compared to Kovalev or Gaudreau. The point is I rather have Drouin than not have him. He creates offense and we need players like this. He has more maturity to go yet. The key is how we surround him.

2) Domi is playing with the Habs this year with a much better top 9. Our top 9 last year don't measure up to the top 9 this year IMO. Hudon, Scherbak, and DLR pretty much played top 9 all year last year. Drouin is not strong enough or has good puck management skills vs Domi in a center role but Domi has more to work with.

The reason why the Habs are in a playoff spot is because we roll our top 9 and it's hard to contain all 3 lines.

I didn't read any posts from you in last nights GDT. You should join us some time.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think Drouin fits on the Flames more than he does on the Habs. Guys like Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm in their top 6. They have a good mix of grit and skill and Gaudreau skating and skill compliments that very well. Not saying Drouin puts up 80+ points or 100 pts with the Flames but he puts up more than 65 on that roster and looks better.

It's virtual reality... a prediction of what it would look like cause we don't know for sure and can only predict.

Imagine if we kept Radulov. His game would compliment Drouin skills very well IMO. Drouin needs a puck protection forward with grit and skill to play with.

Then what the f*** are you talking about? Gaudreau is pacing for 108 pts because he's better than Drouin by a country mile. In fact, Gaudreau already has 16 more points than Drouin is even on pace for. Far from sponging off of his linemates, he leads his entire team in scoring by 10 points over a 59 game span. He could lead his team in scoring by 15 points or more after it's all said and done. Unless you're willing to say that Drouin is capable of doing the same - and you're unwilling to even say that he'd get 80 points, which is about what Gaudreau has after 59 games - the statement that we'd be ''throwing Gaudreau under the bus'' because people are sick of Drouin's Pejorative Slured play of late is a complete non-sequitur.

 

[OldCraig71]

How so? Hasn't Drouin matured in his time with the Habs so far? Why can't we expect more maturity for a 23 year old moving forward? Are we really jumping on his back cause he is the highest paid forward at $5.5M? Like seriously?

He's making risky plays in his own end and neutral zone. He will adjust and he may make a mistake again but they will be less as time moves forward. He's got more maturity to go yet.

How do you know this to be true? What are you basing this claim on? Are you watching the games and if so how come you never post real time when he is making these mistakes?

 

[Curtoph]

I hear year. But it's possible we get both. Weber and Price down for most of the year still results in a bottom 10 finish with Radulov. Lets say we don't get Kotkaniemi... maybe we have Tkachuk, Hughes, or Boqvist instead?

It is possible, but then you have to look at the bigger picture, if Radulov stays do we trade Patches and Chucky?

Very different team only because of the struggles we faced and the moves to get away from those certain players who played well with Radulov.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It is possible, but then you have to look at the bigger picture, if Radulov stays do we trade Patches and Chucky?

Very different team only because of the struggles we faced and the moves to get away from those certain players who played well with Radulov.

True. If Radulov stays, not sure what we do with Patch and Chucky. Anybodies guess. What we do know is Radulov provides puck protection skills on the offensive end and it's lacking with our current roster. The only guy in our top 9 that can handle the heat and keep the puck is Armia and he is not as skilled as Radulov.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How do you know this to be true? What are you basing this claim on? Are you watching the games and if so how come you never post real time when he is making these mistakes?

Cause he is a much better player than he was last year and to start the season this year. He is gradually gaining NHL experience and showing ability to mature. It's a slow process but he has gotten better during his time with the Habs.

I believe in this kid and I think he provides the real value for us from age 25-30. A lot fall in this range. Look at Gaudreau's improvement in stats at age 24 and 25 and also how the Flames top 6 has improved. They are paralleled progression and people ignore or overlook this.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Then what the **** are you talking about? Gaudreau is pacing for 108 pts because he's better than Drouin by a country mile. In fact, Gaudreau already has 16 more points than Drouin is even on pace for. Far from sponging off of his linemates, he leads his entire team in scoring by 10 points over a 59 game span. He could lead his team in scoring by 15 points or more after it's all said and done. Unless you're willing to say that Drouin is capable of doing the same - and you're unwilling to even say that he'd get 80 points, which is about what Gaudreau has after 59 games - the statement that we'd be ''throwing Gaudreau under the bus'' because people are sick of Drouin's ******ed play of late is a complete non-sequitur.

Gaudreau
- 108 pts with the Flames roster
- 70 pts with the Habs roster

Drouin
- 80 pts with the Flames roster
- 63 pts with the Habs roster

I'm not saying Drouin = Gaudreau. I'm saying one team has a much better mix of skill/grit/skating and that team is the Flames. Gaudreau is able to do his thing more with the Flames than he would with the Habs. Team mix of grit/skill/skating is the key. Habs have too many soft forwards

 

[Habs Halifax]

I didn't read any posts from you in last nights GDT. You should join us some time.

I am in multiple sports leagues... Pool, Ball Hockey, Curling, Volleyball. I record the games and watch them later when I get home. I have narrowed the between whistles time to about 25-30 seconds. haha. I can't join the GDT cause I'd know the score before I watch the game. You want to talk to someone cranky? Tell me the score ahead of time before I watch the game. lol

I know what you guys are talking about with Drouin. He makes questionable decisions with the puck and plays a soft perimeter game. I'm not ever expecting him to play a gritty game cause that is not him. I am expecting him to mature and make smarter decisions with the puck. He is still young and playing with many other young players. Look at how his game turned around this year when he played with Domi? I think Drouin needs to play in a top 9 with more grit/skill combo so he can do his thing and be creative.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Gaudreau
- 108 pts with the Flames roster
- 70 pts with the Habs roster

Drouin
- 80 pts with the Flames roster
- 63 pts with the Habs roster

I'm not saying Drouin = Gaudreau. I'm saying one team has a much better mix of skill/grit/skating and that team is the Flames. Gaudreau is able to do his thing more with the Flames than he would with the Habs. Team mix of grit/skill/skating is the key. Habs have too many soft forwards

Bold: I'll take numbers pulled out of rear ends for 800 Alex. Oh, it's the daily double!

And second, saying that Drouin would do better with the Flames is not what you have to argue to make the claim that habs fans would have the same reaction to Gaudreau on our team as Drouin. You would have to argue that their results would be similar, including the ridiculous errors that Drouin makes on a game by game basis. And in the meantime, you're willing to say that the difference in talent between Drouin and Gaudreau is so vast, that we could expect a 28 point difference if they had the same team surroundings.

In fact, we have an example of Drouin and Gaudreau playing on the same team. What was the result? Shall I tell you?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bold: I'll take numbers pulled out of rear ends for 800 Alex. Oh, it's the daily double!

And second, saying that Drouin would do better with the Flames is not what you have to argue to make the claim that habs fans would have the same reaction to Gaudreau on our team as Drouin. You would have to argue that their results would be similar, including the ridiculous errors that Drouin makes on a game by game basis. And in the meantime, you're willing to say that the difference in talent between Drouin and Gaudreau is so vast, that we could expect a 28 point difference if they had the same team surroundings.

In fact, we have an example of Drouin and Gaudreau playing on the same team. What was the result? Shall I tell you?

You ask me what I am talking about and I told you my opinion. I stand by what I said. If Gaudreau played with the Habs and our mix of soft forwards, he would not be getting 80-100 pts like he is with the Flames.

 

[Ozmodiar]

The results in a soft style offensive player struggling on our roster cause we have too many already would be the same. Gaudreau plays a similar game as Drouin (not saying they are the exact same skill). Do you think Gaudreau puts up 80-90 pts on our roster playing with Danault or Domi instead of Monahan?

Let me guess... Gaudreau fixes our PP right?

Your comment tells me you don't watch much of Gaudreau, or you don't know what you're watching when you do - no offence.

Gaudreau's competitiveness and ability to create plays set him apart from Drouin. It's not even close. Gaudreau is an elite playmaker. His primary assists and completion percentage are tops among left wingers ... and you laugh at the notion that he could help the PP relative to Drouin who's prone to turning the puck over.

One player's in the conversation for the Hart while the other is called out by his coach for his disappointing play.

 

[OldCraig71]

I am in multiple sports leagues... Pool, Ball Hockey, Curling, Volleyball. I record the games and watch them later when I get home. I have narrowed the between whistles time to about 25-30 seconds. haha. I can't join the GDT cause I'd know the score before I watch the game. You want to talk to someone cranky? Tell me the score ahead of time before I watch the game. lol

I know what you guys are talking about with Drouin. He makes questionable decisions with the puck and plays a soft perimeter game. I'm not ever expecting him to play a gritty game cause that is not him. I am expecting him to mature and make smarter decisions with the puck. He is still young and playing with many other young players. Look at how his game turned around this year when he played with Domi? I think Drouin needs to play in a top 9 with more grit/skill combo so he can do his thing and be creative.

So since you do watch the games, what did you think of his game in Florida, especially key moments of the third period?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Your comment tells me you don't watch much of Gaudreau, or you don't know what you're watching when you do - no offence.

Gaudreau's competitiveness and ability to create plays set him apart from Drouin. It's not even close. Gaudreau is an elite playmaker. His primary assists and completion percentage are tops among left wingers ... and you laugh at the notion that he could help the PP relative to Drouin who's prone to turning the puck over.

One player's in the conversation for the Hart while the other is called out by his coach for his disappointing play.

Gaudreau is soft just like Drouin man. Reality. I watch the games. No offense but I think you are confused with a difference of opinion between us and think your eye test trumps others into them not watching the games. Give me a break.

What you are talking about is one player is better than the other. I'm not saying Drouin equals Gaudreau or is better. That's is not the point I am making. The point is they play similar style games and one is more effective than the other depending on the players surrounding them. There is also 2 years in age difference and maturity too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So since you do watch the games, what did you think of his game in Florida, especially key moments of the third period?

I thought we were overall flat against the Panthers. Drouin tried to make questionable passes in our own end and neutral zone. Not the first time this happened this year and he might do it again. He knows where he messed up and the coaches are working with him. Last season, he did this all year and this year, he is clearly showing ability to mature and get better as the season goes along. He's 23 and playing in a soft mix of top 9 forwards... We will make mistakes and lets hope they all improve together moving forward.

Sorry, I just will never throw any young player under the bus. Saying Drouin is a dumb hockey player is just wrong IMO. Let him grow cause he is showing us ability to grow. Mistakes will happen and games like the Panthers game will happen. We have one of the youngest forward groups in the league. They don't have the luxury of having a center line Tavares to fall back on.

Look at the Flames forwards and their struggles in the past. They have grown together and things are falling in place for them this year. Gaudreau was a 80 pts player before and now he might crack 100 pts. Drouin is on pace for 60-65 pts and 20-25 goals which will be his best season at age 23. Why do we assume he will not mature and get better in parallel with how our top 9 improves moving forward?