Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - Guy Laflamme edition

[Ozmodiar]

Gaudreau is soft just like Drouin man. Reality. I watch the games. No offense but I think you are confused with a difference of opinion between us and think your eye test trumps others into them not watching the games. Give me a break.

What you are talking about is one player is better than the other. I'm not saying Drouin equals Gaudreau or is better. That's is not the point I am making. The point is they play similar style games and one is more effective than the other depending on the players surrounding them. There is also 2 years in age difference and maturity too.

Gaudreau is not soft like Drouin. He's soft like Patrick Kane. He plays an elusive game. His elite skill buys him time with the puck and he has excellent vision to set up teammates. That's not at all like Drouin, who appears to have blinders on at times.

And it's not just *my* eye test that sees a difference in style. It's a widely held opinion of those who watch hockey and don't group "style" into broad categories of "soft" and "gritty".

If you think Drouin and Gaudreau are trying to do the same thing when they get the puck - stylistically - then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[OldCraig71]

I thought we were overall flat against the Panthers. Drouin tried to make questionable passes in our own end and neutral zone. Not the first time this happened this year and he might do it again. He knows where he messed up and the coaches are working with him. Last season, he did this all year and this year, he is clearly showing ability to mature and get better as the season goes along. He's 23 and playing in a soft mix of top 9 forwards... We will make mistakes and lets hope they all improve together moving forward.

Sorry, I just will never throw any young player under the bus. Saying Drouin is a dumb hockey player is just wrong IMO. Let him grow cause he is showing us ability to grow. Mistakes will happen and games like the Panthers game will happen. We have one of the youngest forward groups in the league. They don't have the luxury of having a center line Tavares to fall back on.

Look at the Flames forwards and their struggles in the past. They have grown together and things are falling in place for them this year. Gaudreau was a 80 pts player before and now he might crack 100 pts. Drouin is on pace for 60-65 pts and 20-25 goals which will be his best season at age 23. Why do we assume he will not mature and get better in parallel with how our top 9 improves moving forward?

Apparently he is not really listening to the coaches because CJ called him out in the media and it has been speculated that he did this on behalf of the players in the room. The coaches are working with him but he is the one choosing to do his own thing on the ice. In order for Drouin to get better he has to first realize that he has to work on elements of his game that will help him get better. I believe that he already thinks that he knows it all and continues to play the way he wants to and this was the reason he got called out. I don't think he will ever turn into LaFlamme in Goon 2, the all around star player that finally bought in.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Gaudreau is not soft like Drouin. He's soft like Patrick Kane. He plays an elusive game. His elite skill buys him time with the puck and he has excellent vision to set up teammates. That's not at all like Drouin, who appears to have blinders on at times.

And it's not just *my* eye test that sees a difference in style. It's a widely held opinion of those who watch hockey and don't group "style" into broad categories of "soft" and "gritty".

If you think Drouin and Gaudreau are trying to do the same thing when they get the puck - stylistically - then I don't know what to tell you.

You are drolling over points production and comparing Gaudreau to Kane vs Drouin cause his stats don't measure up. This is not about who is better skill wise. This is about a soft style player and what talent they play with.

Kane has Toews
Gaudreau has Monahan
Drouin has Domi or Danault

Notice the difference in centers here?

 

[ECWHSWI]

You are drolling over points production and comparing Gaudreau to Kane vs Drouin cause his stats don't measure up. This is not about who is better skill wise. This is about a soft style player and what talent they play with.

Kane has Toews
Gaudreau has Monahan
Drouin has Domi or Danault

Notice the difference in centers here?

people who pretend to watch hockey should know by now Kane doesnt play all that much with Toews.

 

[Saundies]

I thought we were overall flat against the Panthers. Drouin tried to make questionable passes in our own end and neutral zone. Not the first time this happened this year and he might do it again. He knows where he messed up and the coaches are working with him. Last season, he did this all year and this year, he is clearly showing ability to mature and get better as the season goes along. He's 23 and playing in a soft mix of top 9 forwards... We will make mistakes and lets hope they all improve together moving forward.

Sorry, I just will never throw any young player under the bus. Saying Drouin is a dumb hockey player is just wrong IMO. Let him grow cause he is showing us ability to grow. Mistakes will happen and games like the Panthers game will happen. We have one of the youngest forward groups in the league. They don't have the luxury of having a center line Tavares to fall back on.

Look at the Flames forwards and their struggles in the past. They have grown together and things are falling in place for them this year. Gaudreau was a 80 pts player before and now he might crack 100 pts. Drouin is on pace for 60-65 pts and 20-25 goals which will be his best season at age 23. Why do we assume he will not mature and get better in parallel with how our top 9 improves moving forward?

I'm all for making mistakes and learning from them and I hear you about criticizing young players and writing them off as "dumb", but it's hard to justify Drouin is learning and getting better when he does the exact same mistake over and over and over. For example, the soft ass cross-ice pass 3 games in a row with unfavourable results each time, you'd think he'd be like "man, probably shouldn't do that anymore."

A guy like KK makes a mistake and learns right away, and you can pick up that he actually learns. Drouin, it seems like you would literally have to sit him in a room A Clockwork Orange style and have him watch tape of his errors until he finally gets the message.

I don't know how to feel about Drouin. He looked like the second coming of Lafleur against Winnipeg and then like regular-season Rene Bourque the next three games. Even if he were to find some level in the middle of the two I would rather that than the streakiness.

 

[Ozmodiar]

I believe in this kid and I think he provides the real value for us from age 25-30. A lot fall in this range. Look at Gaudreau's improvement in stats at age 24 and 25 and also how the Flames top 6 has improved. They are paralleled progression and people ignore or overlook this.

Paralleled in progression? Gaudreau had 64 points as a rookie. Drouin had 3 kicks at the can in Tampa and still couldn't achieve that. Plenty of good teammates there.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Apparently he is not really listening to the coaches because CJ called him out in the media and it has been speculated that he did this on behalf of the players in the room. The coaches are working with him but he is the one choosing to do his own thing on the ice. In order for Drouin to get better he has to first realize that he has to work on elements of his game that will help him get better. I believe that he already thinks that he knows it all and continues to play the way he wants to and this was the reason he got called out. I don't think he will ever turn into LaFlamme in Goon 2, the all around star player that finally bought in.

There is frustration for sure cause we lost 4 games in a row and Drouin made some questionable passes in his own end and neutral zone. It's something that they likely talked about with him before so it raises the frustration level. He deserves to be called out for it cause he should know better. But to be thrown under the bus and called a dumb hockey player? I think not.

I support constructive criticism and that's what Julien is doing. Drouin is trying to force a play that is not there and needs to learn that his creativity needs to happen on the offensive end, not in the neutral zone or defense zone. He will adjust and don't be surprised he makes a few mistakes here and there moving forward. He's not a perfect hockey player but I think we need to support him more than jump on his back. We should be encouraging creativity but not in our own end. That is the issue.

 

[OldCraig71]

Kane has carried the hawks this season, all of his teammates and the media are saying this very thing. I would say it's a similar situation in Calgary with Gaudreau. A great talented winger does not need a center to carry him, great players don't need others to carry them. So now we can defend Drouin by saying we don't have Patrice Bergeron to cover his mistakes and help him to produce?

 

[Deluded Puck]

Gaudreau is not soft like Drouin. He's soft like Patrick Kane. He plays an elusive game. His elite skill buys him time with the puck and he has excellent vision to set up teammates. That's not at all like Drouin, who appears to have blinders on at times.

And it's not just *my* eye test that sees a difference in style. It's a widely held opinion of those who watch hockey and don't group "style" into broad categories of "soft" and "gritty".

If you think Drouin and Gaudreau are trying to do the same thing when they get the puck - stylistically - then I don't know what to tell you.

We don’t derisively call Drouin LaFlamme for nothing.Drouin plays to show off his skill and if you rough him him up a bit he’ll back down.

The like if Kane and Gaudreau are going to come for you again and again and again, no matter how much you try. And they are capable of simplifying their game to take the most effective chance creating option.

 

[OldCraig71]

There is frustration for sure cause we lost 4 games in a row and Drouin made some questionable passes in his own end and neutral zone. It's something that they likely talked about with him before so it raises the frustration level. He deserves to be called out for it cause he should know better. But to be thrown under the bus and called a dumb hockey player? I think not.

I support constructive criticism and that's what Julien is doing. Drouin is trying to force a play that is not there and needs to learn that his creativity needs to happen on the offensive end, not in the neutral zone or defense zone. He will adjust and don't be surprised he makes a few mistakes here and there moving forward. He's not a perfect hockey player but I think we need to support him more than jump on his back. We should be encouraging creativity but not in our own end. That is the issue.

Julien didn't call him a dumb hockey player. Surely you are not referring to hf habs here are you? Please tell me you are not.

Drouin is actually making east west passes against NHL competition and might have worked in junior hockey but rarely does in the NHL, this is where he is getting in trouble. He would definitely be going against any NHL coach with this type of play but yet he continues to do it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm all for making mistakes and learning from them and I hear you about criticizing young players and writing them off as "dumb", but it's hard to justify Drouin is learning and getting better when he does the exact same mistake over and over and over. For example, the soft ass cross-ice pass 3 games in a row with unfavourable results each time, you'd think he'd be like "man, probably shouldn't do that anymore."

A guy like KK makes a mistake and learns right away, and you can pick up that he actually learns. Drouin, it seems like you would literally have to sit him in a room A Clockwork Orange style and have him watch tape of his errors until he finally gets the message.

I don't know how to feel about Drouin. He looked like the second coming of Lafleur against Winnipeg and then like regular-season Rene Bourque the next three games. Even if he were to find some level in the middle of the two I would rather that than the streakiness.

Drouin is clearly maturing and getting better in his time with the Habs. He is twice the player he was last season and to start the year this season. It's not hard to justify him learning from mistakes... the evidence is there. He had a bad stretch of games but so did the entire team. They have one of the youngest groups of forwards in the league. It's going to happen

 

[Habs Halifax]

Julien didn't call him a dumb hockey player.

Didn't say he did. I don't have a problem with what Julien is doing. I have a problem with Habs fans calling him a dump hockey player.

 

[OldCraig71]

I'm all for making mistakes and learning from them and I hear you about criticizing young players and writing them off as "dumb", but it's hard to justify Drouin is learning and getting better when he does the exact same mistake over and over and over. For example, the soft ass cross-ice pass 3 games in a row with unfavourable results each time, you'd think he'd be like "man, probably shouldn't do that anymore."

A guy like KK makes a mistake and learns right away, and you can pick up that he actually learns. Drouin, it seems like you would literally have to sit him in a room A Clockwork Orange style and have him watch tape of his errors until he finally gets the message.

I don't know how to feel about Drouin. He looked like the second coming of Lafleur against Winnipeg and then like regular-season Rene Bourque the next three games. Even if he were to find some level in the middle of the two I would rather that than the streakiness.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Paralleled in progression? Gaudreau had 64 points as a rookie. Drouin had 3 kicks at the can in Tampa and still couldn't achieve that. Plenty of good teammates there.

Gaudreau was a rookie at age 21. Drouin was a rookie at age 19. We should be comparing them at the same age points and looking at the circumstance of the talent around them in each season.

- Gaudreau had 64 pts when he was 21
- Drouin had 53 pts when he was 21 (Still with Tampa)

Drouin was traded to the Habs to be a center in a mess of a season at age 22. His development as a winger was derailed due to him trying to play center on a team with not much talent. Drouin is now having a much better offensive year and is on pace for his best season yet. He is going to get better. Will he catch Gaudreau? I doubt it. But that's not the point.

 

[Ozmodiar]

You are drolling over points production and comparing Gaudreau to Kane vs Drouin cause his stats don't measure up. This is not about who is better skill wise. This is about a soft style player and what talent they play with.

Kane has Toews
Gaudreau has Monahan
Drouin has Domi or Danault

Notice the difference in centers here?

This is your reply to my comment where i didn't even mention stats at all??

My comment was about Gaudreau and Kane playing a similar style. Unfortunately, you glossed over it and jumped to stats and line mates.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is your reply to my comment where i didn't even mention stats at all??

My comment was about Gaudreau and Kane playing a similar style. Unfortunately, you glossed over it and jumped to stats and line mates.

Drouin plays the same style but is not as skilled. They are not players who win puck battles. They are players who skate well and are creative with the skills they have. Some more effective than the other but then again, the Center they play with is a factor.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lets look at the grit stats and giveaways/takeaways. I wonder how the Habs fan base would feel with Gaudreau playing with Domi and giving the puck away 86 times. This is what I am talking about. People think Gaudreau is the same player with the Habs and they overlook that Gaudreau now is playing with Danault and Domi instead of Mohanan and/or Backlund.

Gaudreau:
- Age 25
- 9 Hits
- 7 Blocks
- 86 Giveaways
- 45 Takeaways

Drouin:
- Age 23
- 45 Hits
- 21 Blocks
- 38 Giveaways
- 37 Takeaways

Kane:
- Age 30
- 15 Hits
- 13 Blocks
- 40 Giveaways
- 27 Takeaways

 

[OnTheRun]

Gaudreau was a rookie at age 21. Drouin was a rookie at age 19. We should be comparing them at the same age points and looking at the circumstance of the talent around them in each season.

- Gaudreau had 64 pts when he was 21
- Drouin had 53 pts when he was 21 (Still with Tampa)

Drouin was traded to the Habs to be a center in a mess of a season at age 22. His development as a winger was derailed due to him trying to play center on a team with not much talent. Drouin is now having a much better offensive year and is on pace for his best season yet. He is going to get better. Will he catch Gaudreau? I doubt it. But that's not the point.

This is a very weird way to look at the whole thing. You can't just strip away the context, mainly how both Drouin and Gaudreau performed relative to their peers.

Gadreau rookie season was good enough to place him just outside the top30.
Drouin best year to date, in Tampa, was top80 material.

And when everything is said and done, that's pretty much where Drouin is going to land this year...... Top75~top80.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is a very weird way to look at the whole thing. You can't just strip away the context, mainly how both Drouin and Gaudreau performed relative to their peers.

Gadreau rookie season was good enough to place him just outside the top30.
Drouin best year to date, in Tampa, was top80 material.

And when everything is said and done, that's pretty much where Drouin is going to land this year...... Top75~top80.

Gaudreau coughed up the puck 86 times this year so far. That's with playing with more matured and better centers in Mohahan and Backlund vs Danault and Domi (and 2 years older vs Drouin). If Gaudreau caughed up the puck 86 times playing on the Habs roster, people jump on his back just like we are with Drouin. Results are the same.

You may find it weird but it's a solid example. This is not about points potential comparision... this is about soft style skilled players that have great skating skills and how they look depending on who they play with.

 

[BLONG7]

Normally, I would agree with you but posting this after last night is a little unfair. Drouin was engaged on the defensive side of the puck for most of the night. I have absolutely no issues with him if he brings this sort of game on the nights he isn't wowing us with his spectacular offensive plays. Offensively last night he was basically not there but that's okay. If he brings his offensive game let's on 25-30 games out of the year and the rest he plays like he did last night he'll become an extremely valuable player.

Now the million dollar question. Can he bring that defensive awareness on a regular basis? He did last last night. I'm hoping he will.

Way too inconsistent for me...........watch the highlights on the game tying 2-2 goal. Shouldn't have happened. He does this too often, and the number of giveaways he has, most nights is bad, he should not be getting away with it, but Clod gonna Clod.

 

[sharknado]

Lets look at the grit stats and giveaways/takeaways. I wonder how the Habs fan base would feel with Gaudreau playing with Domi and giving the puck away 86 times. This is what I am talking about. People think Gaudreau is the same player with the Habs and they overlook that Gaudreau now is playing with Danault and Domi instead of Mohanan and/or Backlund.

Gaudreau is responsible in all zones. Drouin keeps not covering his man every game which results in goals against. It happened again last night ion the 2nd goal. He just looks lazy or realizes a second too late that his man is free. Let's not forget how brutal he is in OT

 

[Habs Halifax]

Gaudreau is responsible in all zones. Drouin keeps not covering his man every game which results in goals against. It happened again last night ion the 2nd goal. He just looks lazy or realizes a second too late that his man is free. Let's not forget how brutal he is in OT

Gaudreau is soft but highly skilled and plays with better centers with a better size/skill/skating mix with the Flames. However, his 1.19 giveaways/game is nothing to brag about. Drouin is younger and his giveaways are 0.65/game. That's a substantial difference and remember, Gaudreau is 2 years older and more matured.

I think we are being too critical on Drouin.

 

[Habs Icing]

Way too inconsistent for me...........watch the highlights on the game tying 2-2 goal. Shouldn't have happened. He does this too often, and the number of giveaways he has, most nights is bad, he should not be getting away with it, but Clod gonna Clod.

Are you joking? He showed hustle, lots of hustle on that play. Look, I'm the biggest Drouin detractor in this forum. I didn't want him from day one and I'm still of that opinion but there's no way I'm going to criticize him for that play. I'm a big Domi fan and I would say Max dogged it on that play and Drouin didn't quit. Sorry, if you want your criticism of this player to be taken seriously you need to be fair. Drouin was deep in the offensive zone and Domi was at the blueline. Drouin skated his ass off to catch up. The only thing I would fault him on that play is his decision to stay in the middle of the ice. He should have gone straight for Foligno but that's easy for me to say sitting on my couch.

I had no problem with Drouin's play last night.

 

[OnTheRun]

Gaudreau coughed up the puck 86 times this year so far. That's with playing with more matured and better centers in Mohahan and Backlund vs Danault and Domi (and 2 years older vs Drouin). If Gaudreau caughed up the puck 86 times playing on the Habs roster, people jump on his back just like we are with Drouin. Results are the same.

You may find it weird but it's a solid example. This is not about points potential comparision... this is about soft style skilled players that have great skating skills and how they look depending on who they play with.

Not only giveaway have nothing to do with what you said earlier but now you're just grasping at straws with the apple-to-orange comparison.

This is a pretty silly argument to make when you already have Domi getting way more rope than Drouin from the fans base and now you are inferring that a ELITE player like Gaudreau would get just as much rope as Jo McFloat... Please.

 

[sharknado]

Gaudreau is soft but highly skilled and plays with better centers with a better size/skill/skating mix with the Flames. However, his 1.19 giveaways/game is nothing to brag about. Drouin is younger and his giveaways are 0.65/game. That's a substantial difference and remember, Gaudreau is 2 years older and more matured.

I think we are being too critical on Drouin.

His stats are only hiding his major flaw, which is defensive play. Your line mates should not dictate on your man coverage. You either skate your butt off coming back or you coast.