Prospect Info: Jonathan Dahlen

[Charles Bushman]

It was limited, but not very.

His value should have been near a late first, or 2 seconds. we got basically Shinkurak and a 4th.



If you look up you will see the point.

I think you may be a tad optimistic getting that type of return for a third line player. Goldobin is a better player than Shinkaruk

 

[Hit the post]

At the time he was dealt, Hansen was more than mere bottom six forward. That said, I have always felt the trade was a solid one (only blemish being the salary retention). Who knew Hansen's play would fall off a cliff that fast.

 

[krutovsdonut]

If you look up you will see the point.

so martin hanzal,

just turned 30 a week before the trade
6' 6"
230 lb
centre
face off specialist averaging over 56% for three years
on track for his second consecutive 40 point season
6 goals, 1 assist in his preceding 8 games before the trade
averaging 18.5 minutes per night

was comparable in value with one year older, smaller, lower scoring, less minute playing, winger, coming off an injury, janick hansen?

hanzal played no better for the wild then signed a 3 year $4.75m deal at the end of that season. where do you think hansen would have come in?

i am as big a fan of hansen as you can find. please put away the crack pipe.

 

[racerjoe]

I think you may be a tad optimistic getting that type of return for a third line player. Goldobin is a better player than Shinkaruk

At the time of the trade, Shink and Goldy were very comparable.

so martin hanzal,

just turned 30 a week before the trade
6' 6"
230 lb
centre
face off specialist averaging over 56% for three years
on track for his second consecutive 40 point season
6 goals, 1 assist in his preceding 8 games before the trade
averaging 18.5 minutes per night

was comparable in value with one year older, smaller, lower scoring, less minute playing, winger, coming off an injury, janick hansen?

hanzal played no better for the wild then signed a 3 year $4.75m deal at the end of that season. where do you think hansen would have come in?

i am as big a fan of hansen as you can find. please put away the crack pipe.

Goalpost moving...

Hanzel hit 40 points once. Hansen was 20 plus goal scoring shut down guy with better wheels who was consistently putting up 30-40 points.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

could you children take these ludicrous not topic hissy fits to some other thread. This is not the Benning thread, the trade thread or any of that other crap. I have gotten crap from moderators on occasion for off topic comments, why are they not dealing with this drivel?

because they support it.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Hanzel hit 40 points once. Hansen was 20 plus goal scoring shut down guy with better wheels who was consistently putting up 30-40 points.

well no, that is not right

hanzal hit 40 points twice: the season before the trade and also two seasons before that. in between he missed half a season but tracked .64 ppg for the year. in fact, if you go back, he has tracked over .5 ppg every season since 2011.

hanzal was also tracking over .5 ppg at the time of the trade, and ended up with 39 points in 71 games.,

basically, he was almost the definition of a 40 point centre at the time of the trade.

hansen has never made it to 40 points and has only tracked at or over .5 ppg twice in his career. i love the guy, but he scores less points than hanzal, and his wheels, heart and the rest of his game just do not put him in the same category as the size, minutes, centre role, and faceoff contributions that hanzal brought to the table.

 

[racerjoe]

Sorry Hanzel hit it twice, and thats it. 40 and 41 points... otherwise nothing I said was wrong.

 

[VanJack]

Granted it's only a small sample size, but you can already see that Dahlen is a real wizard around the net....he has that goalscorer's sixth sense about where the puck is going to be......there was a question about how his down-low game would translate from the bigger European ice...but so far, judging from the first few games on Utica, he'll be fine imo.

 

[Knight53]

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Thread Title:
Jonathan Dahlen | Welcome to Utica!

 

[ZEBROA]

Could the Hanzel Hansen brothers please stand up and go home.

Not been able to watch Dahlen , how has he looked over there (im in Sweden so over there is where you are so you know, this is here were i am)

 

[DL44]

Goalpost moving...

Hanzel hit 40 points once. Hansen was 20 plus goal scoring shut down guy with better wheels who was consistently putting up 30-40 points.

I don't know what you guys were arguing.. but this gave me a chuckle.

Hitting 30pts 3 times in 8 yrs here does not make him a consistent 30 pt player.
Referring to him as a "20 plus goal scoring.." player is also silliness.
Like I said, don't know what you guys could be arguing about in this thread, but it can't be going well if you are reaching for hyperbole like this


Back to Dahlen!

 

[black ace]

At the time of the trade, Shink and Goldy were very comparable.

No

 

[MS]

No

They were literally identical.

 

[Black Noise]

No

Goldobin has 41 points in 46 AHL games when he was traded at age 21.
Shinkaruk has 39 points in 45 AHL games when he was traded at age 21.

They were pretty much identical like MS is saying.

 

[alternate]

Hmmmm, I wonder, is there anything else to consider other than points when evaluating two non-NHL players? Like I dunno maybe whether that production will translate to the next level?

Shinkaruk was viewed (correctly) by Benning as someone whose skill wouldn't translate to the NHL. Goldoblin on the other hand has already demonstrated that his physical tools are NHL quality, but we are still waiting on whether he has the drive and determination to make the Show permanately.

Very shortsighted to simply look at AHL production and declare two prospects "identical."

 

[Hit the post]

Hmmmm, I wonder, is there anything else to consider other than points when evaluating two non-NHL players? Like I dunno maybe whether that production will translate to the next level?

Perhaps give them more than one game at the NHL level to make that assessment? This management crew has been fairly successful at evaluating forwards so I'll give them a pass.

Defensemen? Well that's an entirely different matter.....

 

[DL44]

They were literally identical.

'Literally' Agreed.
Except style of play, size, injury history...
And NO, Shinkaruk is NOT 5'11 unless on skates.

 

[alternate]

Perhaps give them more than one game at the NHL level to make that assessment? This management crew has been fairly successful at evaluating forwards so I'll give them a pass.

Defensemen? Well that's an entirely different matter.....

Thing is, management sees guys in practice etc. If a guy can't get the job done in practice why would he magically get the job done in a game?

I do share your concern regarding defensemen though. Drafting hasn't been too bad, UDFA we've done fine with. But proscouting has left something to be desired.

Dahlen and Goldoblin, even if neither makes it are acquisitions I can support. Need our next blueline acquisitions via trade or UFA to be solid hits though to get this turnaround thing turned around.

 

[MS]

Hmmmm, I wonder, is there anything else to consider other than points when evaluating two non-NHL players? Like I dunno maybe whether that production will translate to the next level?

Shinkaruk was viewed (correctly) by Benning as someone whose skill wouldn't translate to the NHL. Goldoblin on the other hand has already demonstrated that his physical tools are NHL quality, but we are still waiting on whether he has the drive and determination to make the Show permanately.

Very shortsighted to simply look at AHL production and declare two prospects "identical."

... and Goldobin was viewed (correctly) by San Jose as a prospect whose skills and total lack of an all-around game wouldn't translate to the NHL. There is no difference.

 

[LeftCoast]

... and Goldobin was viewed (correctly) by San Jose as a prospect whose skills and total lack of an all-around game wouldn't translate to the NHL. There is no difference.

Except that Goldobin has been a better, more productive player than Shinkaruk at BOTH the NHL and AHL levels.

 

[Melvin]

Except that Goldobin has been a better, more productive player than Shinkaruk at BOTH the NHL and AHL levels.

At the time of the trade he had played nine NHL games and scored two points. He had 41 points in 46 ahl games compared to 39 in 45 for Shinkaruk at the time of his trade.

It's the same thing and I said so at the time.

 

[LeftCoast]

At the time of the trade he had played nine NHL games and scored two points. He had 41 points in 46 ahl games compared to 39 in 45 for Shinkaruk at the time of his trade.

It's the same thing and I said so at the time.

But it's not the same.

Both players are skilled offensive players who are going to be judged based on if they can fit in a Top 6 role. So I think offensive production is a fair point of comparison.

Goldobin is almost exactly a year younger than Shinkaruk, so comparing them at a one point in time when neither had broken into the NHL is not an equal comparison.

More importantly - over their careers in both the AHL and NHL Goldobin has been far more productive. He has 0.844 PPG in the AHL and 0.311 PPG in the NHL. More importantly, at this point in his career (remember he is a year younger), he has shown that he actually belongs on an NHL roster - for 61 games. Shinkaruk has a 0.593 PPG in the AHL and has only managed to convince his coaches to put him into 15 NHL games over 4 seasons (with a 0.266 PPG average).

Further - from an asset management perspective, at the time of the trade, Goldobin had 2 years of waiver exemption remaining where Shinkaruk had only 1.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Reminder:
Prospect Info: Jonathan Dahlen | Welcome to Utica!

 

[RobsonStreet]

... and Goldobin was viewed (correctly) by San Jose as a prospect whose skills and total lack of an all-around game wouldn't translate to the NHL. There is no difference.

There is one huge difference: one is a prospect the Canucks used to have, the other is a prospect the Canucks still have. Following along I’ve come to understand that (by some mathematical anomaly) the new guy is better 100 percent of the time.
—

Welcome to Utica, Jonathan Dahlen. I’m glad you’re way better than *checks notes* Anton Rodin.