Value of: Jonas Brodin.
- Thread starter Alikhan Alizada
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A couple of years ago I would've been all over Mittelstadt for Brodin straight up, even though I am a big Brodin fan. Hard to believe how much Mittelstadt has struggled. His scoring stats weren't great with the Gophers, but they were an awful team, and he was clearly the most talented player on the ice most nights to my eyes.
His skills are great, great vision, above average skating, decent size. Something is missing, though. At this point he looks to be busting, which blows my mind, and reminds me of why I am not earning a living as a scout.
I would definitely have scouts watching him to see if he appears to be turning a corner, but as of now I don't see any way that he is the main piece coming back in a trade for Brodin, especially if Casey is switching to LW.
His skills are great, great vision, above average skating, decent size. Something is missing, though. At this point he looks to be busting, which blows my mind, and reminds me of why I am not earning a living as a scout.
I would definitely have scouts watching him to see if he appears to be turning a corner, but as of now I don't see any way that he is the main piece coming back in a trade for Brodin, especially if Casey is switching to LW.
I think last season was humbling and they should’ve sent him down after about 20 games to do what he’s doing now which is gaining some confidence and playing in all situations. I think the kick in the ass over the summer had him working out in a way that he hadn’t seen before. The issue is he has so far to come compared to his peers and the first summer after he turned pro would’ve been the best time for that penny to drop but it did not seemingly. He still needs work on his burst and his conditioning. It wasn’t great when he arrived and it seems to be better now but there still a lot of work to do there. The team has done their damnedest to ruin him after all of the talk of making sure that prospects weren’t put in that position.
I am most definitely a mind that despite the fetish Jason has for defenseman, he’s not good at finding one so that can actually defend. Brodin is that. When Casey was still well regarded, it would’ve been strange because Buffalo desperately needs forwards. However they also need defenseman who can defend.
MuckOG
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Merrrlin
Grab the 9 iron, Barry!
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What's an example?
I mean Wild fans are flaying other teams fans in this thread, and often with reason, but I am struggling to grasp what their expected return is? Are we talking like a Studnika level prospect? Or a Trocheck level player? Top 20 pick? Top 15? Top 10?
- Dec 10, 2012
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Trocheck would be appealing, though I understand that it'd cause problems for Florida without a center going back the other way. In terms of futures I think the Muzzin trade should be the floor here: a 1st and a couple of prospects.
"Expected return" is probably the wrong question when it comes to Brodin or Dumba, though. All we've heard is that Guerin's been in "listening mode" since early in the season and that multiple teams have called about them. There hasn't been any indication that he's all that willing to move them.
IMO the Wild are not looking to trade Brodin. They are 4 points out of a wild Card, with a game or two in hand. They would be far more likely to move someone like Donato, or possibly Zucker, because they have so many LW's.
Trochek sounds about right, especially considering MN's needs, but I am having a hard time grasping Trochek's level of play right now. He had a great season a couple of years ago, but as time passes it appears that it might've been an outlier.
Studnicka is a nice prospect, but that's about it. Besides the fact that the B's need him, and don't need a Dman, I still don't see MN settling for just him in a trade straight up.
Its hard to gauge any return exactly, as players values are fluid. Last year, MTL would've laughed at MN if they had offered Kotka. This year, not so much. Two years ago, Trocheck had way more value than Brodin. That has changed. Same with Mittelstadt, and Granlund.
One thing I know, GM's value established NHL in their mid 20's regulars more, and prospects less, than HFB members. Brodin is having a vg year, but I would argue that a lot of the reason why is simply luck, and having better D partners than in previous year. To me, he's about as steady as they come, and has been since he came into the league at 19yo. He's just gotten a bit bigger, stronger, and all that comes with it. Most offensive players are, by nature, streaky. Very few deliver year after year. Brodin is not valuable enough to net one of those few. The trick is getting someone back in value who is about to "hit", like it appears Fiala is now with the Wild. I have no idea who that player is.
I posted above that Brodin was a #10oa pick who worked out far better than most #10oa picks work out. If you can accept that, then you will start to get an idea of his value.
WPG would love to have Brodin, but a trade between the two would be problematic. I would lose my mind seeing Brodin appear at the Excel in a Jets uniform.
Trochek sounds about right, especially considering MN's needs, but I am having a hard time grasping Trochek's level of play right now. He had a great season a couple of years ago, but as time passes it appears that it might've been an outlier.
Studnicka is a nice prospect, but that's about it. Besides the fact that the B's need him, and don't need a Dman, I still don't see MN settling for just him in a trade straight up.
Its hard to gauge any return exactly, as players values are fluid. Last year, MTL would've laughed at MN if they had offered Kotka. This year, not so much. Two years ago, Trocheck had way more value than Brodin. That has changed. Same with Mittelstadt, and Granlund.
One thing I know, GM's value established NHL in their mid 20's regulars more, and prospects less, than HFB members. Brodin is having a vg year, but I would argue that a lot of the reason why is simply luck, and having better D partners than in previous year. To me, he's about as steady as they come, and has been since he came into the league at 19yo. He's just gotten a bit bigger, stronger, and all that comes with it. Most offensive players are, by nature, streaky. Very few deliver year after year. Brodin is not valuable enough to net one of those few. The trick is getting someone back in value who is about to "hit", like it appears Fiala is now with the Wild. I have no idea who that player is.
I posted above that Brodin was a #10oa pick who worked out far better than most #10oa picks work out. If you can accept that, then you will start to get an idea of his value.
WPG would love to have Brodin, but a trade between the two would be problematic. I would lose my mind seeing Brodin appear at the Excel in a Jets uniform.
- Dec 10, 2012
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Well he worked out far better than most 10oa, so I believe the implication is that he’s worth at least a top 7 pick.
We should get at least a #2 overall for Staal, then.
- Dec 10, 2012
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- Dec 10, 2012
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Merrrlin
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So in terms of the different types of trades:
Picks:
7-10 OA straight
1st+1 C grade prospect and 1 D grade prospect
Players:
Trocheck calibre
Looking at the current standings, NYR down. Maybe Buffalo could be realistic, but in this years, draft, I would be shocked if any firsts projected top 15 are moved.
I could see Edmonton coming up with a Muzzin-esque trade.
In terms of players, I am not sold on anyone moving a Trocheck calibre player, even if he has taken a step back from a couple years ago. That 1st/2nd line inbetweener group is so hard to evaluate.
Not sure I see any C's with that upside being moved - not because they are better players, but because basically everyone wants them. That's why there were 10+ teams interested in overpaying John Tavares...he's not worth his deal, but how else do you acquire a C these days?
Might have more luck on the other end of the 2nd line C spectrum, the 2/3s, but then why even really bother?
Maybe SJ rises up the standings and that pick suddenly hits the table. We'll see.
Picks:
7-10 OA straight
1st+1 C grade prospect and 1 D grade prospect
Players:
Trocheck calibre
Looking at the current standings, NYR down. Maybe Buffalo could be realistic, but in this years, draft, I would be shocked if any firsts projected top 15 are moved.
I could see Edmonton coming up with a Muzzin-esque trade.
In terms of players, I am not sold on anyone moving a Trocheck calibre player, even if he has taken a step back from a couple years ago. That 1st/2nd line inbetweener group is so hard to evaluate.
Not sure I see any C's with that upside being moved - not because they are better players, but because basically everyone wants them. That's why there were 10+ teams interested in overpaying John Tavares...he's not worth his deal, but how else do you acquire a C these days?
Might have more luck on the other end of the 2nd line C spectrum, the 2/3s, but then why even really bother?
Maybe SJ rises up the standings and that pick suddenly hits the table. We'll see.
Dickie Dunn
Registered User
If it sounds like an over-pay, then start there. No reason for the Wild to trade him otherwise.
Merrrlin
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Well...I mean...there certainly are reasons. Their names are Lafreniere, Byfield, Raty, Hughes, etc...
Depends on if this is a "retool on the fly" or if Minny tears it down to the roots.
Why not? We were turning cartwheels when we got Boldy at #12 oa last year, because most had him valued as a top 10 pick. Our enthusiasm has been tempered this year after a mediocre college season. Again, HFB members value prospects more than GM's do, who realize that they can't always wait 4 years for a prospect to (maybe) blossom, because they will be fired after the 3rd season.
I think the best fit for a Brodin trade is MTL. MTL has the ever surprising Danault(speaking of underrated), Domi, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi who are all likely to be top 9C's at a minimum, and are all 26 yo or under. Byron and Poehling are more than capable of playing 4C, Poehling maybe a 3C in the future. Byron is the only guy in his 30's. Is a Domi/Kotka/Suzuki/Danault for Brodin trade crazy? Perhaps they would rather Dumba, who is a year younger, a RHD, and locked up longer(not likely with Weber and Petry already there).
The trick for both sides is determining what Suzuki(this years shiny toy) and Kotkaniemi(last year's shiny toy) ultimately end up being. Domi and Danault are pretty set in their value, I think, even though Domi is still pretty young, and mercurial.
I think the best fit for a Brodin trade is MTL. MTL has the ever surprising Danault(speaking of underrated), Domi, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi who are all likely to be top 9C's at a minimum, and are all 26 yo or under. Byron and Poehling are more than capable of playing 4C, Poehling maybe a 3C in the future. Byron is the only guy in his 30's. Is a Domi/Kotka/Suzuki/Danault for Brodin trade crazy? Perhaps they would rather Dumba, who is a year younger, a RHD, and locked up longer(not likely with Weber and Petry already there).
The trick for both sides is determining what Suzuki(this years shiny toy) and Kotkaniemi(last year's shiny toy) ultimately end up being. Domi and Danault are pretty set in their value, I think, even though Domi is still pretty young, and mercurial.
Oh, any trade for a lotto pick would likely be after the draw, so in the off season. Would you want to be the guy who trade away Lafreniere for Brodin?
Dickie Dunn
Registered User
No reason to think that the Wild will ever tear down to the roots with Liepold as the owner. Don't think that is his style or interest. Retool at most until we see otherwise.
Merrrlin
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Crazy? No. However...
Domi is a face of the franchise now.
Kotka is still too young to jettison. He has an amazing start to last season, they know what he can be.
Suzuki looks like a potential #1C, which Montreal also needs.
Danault may be available - to me this is good value both ways.
If you are only getting Danault, though, is it worth it? He's a very good player, and can shut down top players. Just not sure that's the right move.
