Value of: Jonas Brodin.

[spockBokk]

That's essentially what Brent Burns got before he broke out. I think Minnesota can offer a 2nd or a 2021 3rd round pick like the Burns deal, but Brodin is vastly underrated as a defenseman.

Burns got back Setoguchi (9th overall pick), Coyle (20s), and a mid 20s pick. Brodin gets back a mid to late 1st round pick, the 28th overall and 21st overall...Like Setoguchi, Suzuki has some concerns with health.

Burns was traded when he was 26 year old as well, which is how old Brodin is.

Brodin is not Brett Burns...he's an excellent player, but get real...

 

[Bazeek]

Brodin is not Brett Burns...he's an excellent player, but get real...

Brent Burns wasn't Brent Burns when he was traded.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Brodin is not Brett Burns...he's an excellent player, but get real...

When was the last time a young defensemen of Brodin's caliber was traded? Larsson got Taylor Hall back. Muzzin, who was 28 turning 29 got a 1st, the rights to a prospect and Grundson from Toronto.

I mean Travis Hamonic got a 1st round pick and two second round picks. Dougie Hamilton got a first round pick (mid) and two high second round picks. And then was traded for Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin, two top 5 picks. Hrm...

 

[spockBokk]

When was the last time a young defensemen of Brodin's caliber was traded? Larsson got Taylor Hall back. Muzzin, who was 28 turning 29 got a 1st, the rights to a prospect and Grundson from Toronto.

I mean Travis Hamonic got a 1st round pick and two second round picks. Dougie Hamilton got a first round pick (mid) and two high second round picks. And then was traded for Elias Lindholm and Noah Hanifin, two top 5 picks. Hrm...

Muzzin is very comparable, and he got no where near 2 former 1st round picks plus another 1st round pick. I’d imagine the return would be a 1st plus a b prospect.

Hamilton coming from BOS to CGY is not comparable at all imho, he was coming off a 40pt season and still had years of team control left. Yet, he still only returned a 1st plus two 2nds.

And in the trade to CAR, you conveniently are leaving out the fact that Hamliton also came with Adam Fox and Micheal Ferland and the fact that Hamilton came with 3 more years of term.

The Hall trade as well is not comparable. That was just an idiot GM playing idiot GM.

 

[Bazeek]

Muzzin is very comparable, and he got no where near 2 former 1st round picks plus another 1st round pick. I’d imagine the return would be a 1st plus a b prospect.

It's the most recent comparable we have but Muzzin's also older and (arguably) worse. LA was also probably a motivated seller, to the extent that that matters.

 

[spockBokk]

It's the most recent comparable we have but Muzzin's also older and (arguably) worse. LA was also probably a motivated seller, to the extent that that matters.

Not to harp on this, but I’d say Muzzin is a very good comparison. A few years older, yes, but he was still on the right side of 30 when traded and had put up a 40pt season or 2.

There’s no debating that Brodin is a very valuable piece. I’m just not ready to say a shrewd front office like CAR is going to pay a crazy price (and I’m pretty certain they’d consider Gauthier + Suzuki + one of their 1sts a crazy price to pay) for a player like Brodin.

 

[GoldiFox]

Probably a mid-round 1st and a good prospect or two (Toronto's 1st, Suzuki and Gauthier roughly)

3 first round picks for 1.5 years of Brodin? Good luck with that. Minnesota would get one of those assets plus a 2nd or 3rd.

Recently the Canes have been reported to be interested in Martinez, DeMelo, and Dillon. That type of rental will fit their risk/reward structure better.

 

[Bazeek]

Not to harp on this, but I’d say Muzzin is a very good comparison. A few years older, yes, but he was still on the right side of 30 when traded and had put up a 40pt season or 2.

There’s no debating that Brodin is a very valuable piece. I’m just not ready to say a shrewd front office like CAR is going to pay a crazy price (and I’m pretty certain they’d consider Gauthier + Suzuki + one of their 1sts a crazy price to pay) for a player like Brodin.

I do think the 1st + Gauthier + Suzuki is more than anyone's going to offer. I'm not all that eager to pursue any of those in a Brodin deal, but even I'd probably have to say yes if all three were being offered.

Whether or not it'd take that kind of offer to make a trade happen, I have no idea. But I think the Muzzin trade is more of a floor than a ceiling with regards to Brodin.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I mean if someone told Minnesota they could trade their 1st in like 2015 (20th overall), Zach Phillips and Jason Zucker for Dougie Hamilton and a 2nd round pick, I'd definitely do that.

Prospects sometimes carry very little weight.

Also shrewd deals? Remember trading Jeff Skinner for a 2nd, a 3rd and a 6th?

Brodin has 1.5 years, but Burns had that as well when he was traded. Brodin plays both sides (and well) and has shown to be very adaptable to his partner. He is pretty much plug and play.

And in the trade to CAR, you conveniently are leaving out the fact that Hamliton also came with Adam Fox and Micheal Ferland and the fact that Hamilton came with 3 more years of term.

Where is Fox and Ferland? Fox got traded for a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick and Ferland walked. So, Hamilton and then they had to trade Fox and Ferland walked. Oh wow.

Here's some 28th overall picks: Shane Bowers, Lucas Johansen, Anthony Beauvillier...

It's not like Suzuki is a top prospect either. He's a good prospect (concerns about his injuries aren't even brought up). The biggest piece being moved would be Gauthier and who knows if Toronto's pick would be in the mid or last part of the 1st round.

 

[GoldiFox]

I mean if someone told Minnesota they could trade their 1st in like 2015 (20th overall), Zach Phillips and Jason Zucker for Dougie Hamilton and a 2nd round pick, I'd definitely do that.

Prospects sometimes carry very little weight.

Also shrewd deals? Remember trading Jeff Skinner for a 2nd, a 3rd and a 6th?

Brodin has 1.5 years, but Burns had that as well when he was traded. Brodin plays both sides (and well) and has shown to be very adaptable to his partner. He is pretty much plug and play.

Remember Jeff Skinner having a full No Movement Clause and limiting his trade partners to 1) Buffalo and 2) Toronto? It is surprising they even got a high 2nd + high 3rd for him. Remember how the Canes traded that early 2nd round pick for a later 2nd (Jamieson Rees) + a 3rd (Anttoni Honka)? Carolina's management is shrewd to the core.

If the Canes are giving up a couple 1st equivalents for a D I'd rather target Josh Manson. He's a better fit in both handedness and stylistically. Plus he's signed an extra year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

If you're going to use Burns as a comp, you're going to have to adjust down. 6'5" right-handed, and though he was a bit of a roller coaster, still showed a lot better offense than Brodin has. Brodin is much better defensively than Burns was, but offense still gets paid, even on the back end.

Mid-to-later 1st + mid-to-later 1st value prospect + ~3rd rounder would be my guess.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Mid-to-later 1st + mid-to-later 1st value prospect + ~3rd rounder would be my guess.

That's fair; but I was looking at Setoguchi as an established NHL player that had already scored 30+ in the NHL as the offset here. Gauthier, Suzuki aren't even NHL players at this point (and Suzuki has to show he is over his injury).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Remember Jeff Skinner having a full No Movement Clause and limiting his trade partners to 1) Buffalo and 2) Toronto? It is surprising they even got a high 2nd + high 3rd for him. Remember how the Canes traded that early 2nd round pick for a later 2nd (Jamieson Rees) + a 3rd (Anttoni Honka)? Carolina's management is shrewd to the core.

If the Canes are giving up a couple 1st equivalents for a D I'd rather target Josh Manson. He's a better fit in both handedness and stylistically. Plus he's signed an extra year.

2 guys that aren't anything yet.

 

[Bazeek]

And if they hadn't been shrewd enough to trade Faulk for futures they would've have been pursuing Brodin to begin with. No management group is bullet proof.

 

[GoldiFox]

2 guys that aren't anything yet.

Sure they are. By the Canes own admission they were both higher on Carolina's draft ranking list than where they were picked. And Carolina turned one early 2nd round pick gained from one trade (in which they were handcuffed on the return) into both prospects. The draft is a dartboard. 2 highly rated prospects (Rees + Honka) has better chance of hitting than 1 (#37 - Mads Soogard). And 1 highly rated prospect is better than 0 (given the Canes weren't willing to pay Jeff Skinner $9+ million even if he did want to stay). The results may not have panned out yet but certainly these would be described as shrewd moves.

 

[spockBokk]

And if they hadn't been shrewd enough to trade Faulk for futures they would've have been pursuing Brodin to begin with. No management group is bullet proof.

Touché

But, on paper, Jake Gardiner x $4M + Joel Edmundson + Dominik Bokk>>> Justin Faulk at $6.5M for the next 7 years with a NTC. Who knew Gardiner would suck as much as he did for the first half?

 

[Bazeek]

Touché

But, on paper, Jake Gardiner x $4M + Joel Edmundson + Dominik Bokk>>> Justin Faulk at $6.5M for the next 7 years with a NTC. Who knew Gardiner would suck as much as he did for the first half?

It's a bet that I think made a lot of sense at the time. I definitely didn't expect Gardiner to struggle this much, but I also think he's gotten more flak than he's deserved over the years.

But it is the sort of thing that's in the back of my head with this Brodin stuff. Never appreciate what you've got until it's gone...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Similar to the Muzzin trade. Late 1st and two grade B's. However, that don't mean the Wild will trade him for that.

 

[spockBokk]

It's a bet that I think made a lot of sense at the time. I definitely didn't expect Gardiner to struggle this much, but I also think he's gotten more flak than he's deserved over the years.

To Gardiner’s credit, he has looked like a competent 2nd pair guy since partnering with Pesce. Before the Hamilton injury, I believe Gardiner’s inability to claim that spot was the main driving force for them looking for someone to play with Pesce, hence, their interest in Brodin.

Now, with Hamilton out, they have a void next to Slavin. And it may be that they’re shifting from interest from primarily a top 4 LD to a RD, as has been hinted at by Russo recently as well as hinted at in their rumored interest in DeMelo from OTT.

I do think they trade for a D by 2/24, but I don’t think they will end up having to part with one of their 1sts to get one. A Martinez/DeMelo/Dillon level type guy should be easily had for less than that.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Touché

But, on paper, Jake Gardiner x $4M + Joel Edmundson + Dominik Bokk>>> Justin Faulk at $6.5M for the next 7 years with a NTC. Who knew Gardiner would suck as much as he did for the first half?

I know I was happy Gardiner said no to Bergevin. I wanted nothing to do with him. Overrated and spare Leafs parts on D where he is not good in his own end.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Shrewd isn't the right word to use. Value-driven is the more apt phrase. Sometimes that philosophy leads to good results; Teravainen's contract is a bargain and the decision to trade Skinner in lieu of keeping him as an own-rental was astute given the team performance without him. Sometimes it doesn't; it pushed Aho to an offersheet and the existence of the Brodin rumor is a function of the Faulk-Gardiner swap.

A Burns-like return is too much for Carolina, at least. If another team pays that price, good for Minnesota. I wouldn't call that a good value and I'm not convinced that Brodin wouldn't be an actual rental+1, given the hardline way Carolina's FO negotiates contracts. That's a turn to cheaper, albeit lesser, targets price point.

 

[Hockeyfan200]

Similar to the Muzzin trade. Late 1st and two grade B's. However, that don't mean the Wild will trade him for that.

Stop bring up muzzin! It's not comparable. It's probably why Carolina has moved on. Guerin isn't trading thr most valuable piece in the team short of an overpayment .

 

[Bazeek]

Stop bring up muzzin! It's not comparable. It's probably why Carolina has moved on. Guerin isn't trading thr most valuable piece in the team short of an overpayment .

A defensive LHD in his late 20's that's 1.5 years from UFA might be the low end of comparable for Brodin, but it's still comparable.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Stop bring up muzzin! It's not comparable. It's probably why Carolina has moved on. Guerin isn't trading thr most valuable piece in the team short of an overpayment .

I'm not going to stop cause he is the most recent top 4D quality to be traded with 2 years and under term left. And I did say it don't mean that the Wild would accept that value.

Stop being so sensitive Hockeyfan200!

 

[thestonedkoala]

A defensive LHD in his late 20's that's 1.5 years from UFA might be the low end of comparable for Brodin, but it's still comparable.

Karlsson would be an extreme end and he received Chris Tierney (2nd round pick), Dylan DeMelo (6th round pick), Josh Norris (1st round pick), 2nd round pick, and (2) 1st round picks (I believe. The conditionals are a headache).