Jon Cooper says Kadri goal shouldn’t have counted, but wouldn’t say why

[Reality Czech]

Well, that settles it. Colorado will get an asterisk next to their Cup win just like Tampa already has.

 

[ultrathrash]

If there’s one franchise that deserves to have some controversial calls go against them in the finals it’s Tampa bay. You love to see it.

 

[Spawn]

And seven Tampa. I think we can stop whining or make line changes only at breaks.
Or go with rules like they are?

The issue isn't that there are 6 players on the ice for Colorado or that there are 7 players on the ice for Tampa. That can legally occur within the rules outlined for line changes.

Here is the relevant rule that covers this being allowed. They even mention it is up to the discretion of the officials.

Too Many Men on the Ice - Players may be changed at any time during the play from the players’ bench provided that the player or players leaving the ice shall be within five feet (5') of his players’ bench and out of the play before the change is made. Refer also to Rule 71 – Premature Substitution. At the discretion of the on-ice officials, should a substituting player come onto the ice before his teammate is within the five foot (5’) limit of the players’ bench (and therefore clearly causing his team to have too many players on the ice), then a bench minor penalty may be assessed.

Here is what is not up to the discretion of the officials:

If in the course of making a substitution, either the player entering the game or the player retiring from the ice surface plays the puck with his stick, skates or hands or who checks or makes any physical contact with an opposing player while either the player entering the game or the retiring player is actually on the ice, then the infraction of “too many men on the ice” will be called.

Kadri was substituting for Mackinnon. He played the puck before Mackinnon was off the ice. That is an objective penalty.

 

[Hasbro]

Well, that settles it. Colorado will get an asterisk next to their Cup win just like Tampa already has.

Already getting one because Bennington was going to convert his 1-6 career playoff record against the Avalanche into a domination. In for a penny.

 

[Reality Czech]

Already getting one because Bennington was going to convert his 1-6 career playoff record against the Avalanche into a domination. In for a penny.

Good point.

 

[SherVaughn30]

The bolts player had control of the puck, play shall only be stopped if there is no immediate and impending scoring opportunity. Which there obviously was.

That's fine, but what if the Bolts players shot to score hits Kuemper in the head and then goes in the net? The NHL would then have to revise the rule. The whole point of the whistle blowing the play dead is for the safety of the goalie with no mask.

 

[Oil Gauge]

That's fine, but what if the Bolts players shot to score hits Kuemper in the head and then goes in the net? The NHL would then have to revise the rule. The whole point of the whistle blowing the play dead is for the safety of the goalie with no mask.

Why would they have to revise the rule? They would call it a goal and move on.

 

[Freudian]

Hopefully the Tampa players buys into Coopers woe is us schtick and complains tomorrow. Then we'll know they are done for the series.

I suspect Cooper will re-focus them though. Would be bizarre to let emotions take over.

 

[Reality Czech]

Minor miss. That player leaving the ice was nowhere near the puck. We could certainly go back and tally the missed penalties throughout the game and decide who should've won, because an Avs player had his feet taken out by a Tampa stick as he was closing in on Vasi in OT, but no call! An in case people hadn't noticed, the Avs have scored half their goals on the PP, so that may have been the win right there....I mean, had it been called.

I think the bigger issue would be how early did Kadri jump onto the ice? Was it too early and did it give him an unfair advantage? Seems to be that is far more important than the guy standing by the boards. Crazy how controversy just follows this guy around, huh.

 

[josra33]

I mean your coach wasn’t much better in defeat it is what it is.

Please expound? I’d love to hear this made up story.

 

[Zerotonine]

....That wasn't Kadri's man going for the change

Keep telling your self that

 

[Pavels Dog]

Cooper is such an incredibly sore loser. I know that's a trait of a lot of people who win a lot, but damn. Makes it even easier to root against Tampa.

 

[Chips]

Well logic in Cooper head... They fail. Moment before goal...
View attachment 561291

You realize it’s not just as simple as someone physically touching the ice? It was the timing and distance of the Avs 5th and 6th man from and in getting to/jumping off the bench and touching the puck.

From that photo, where it looks like the Avs have possession anyway, you can clearly tell bolts players getting on and hopping off were not only irrelevant to the sequence, but they’re pretty close to each other and more than likely within the “legal limit”


I have no dog in this fight whatsoever and don’t really care who wins the series or the outcome of this game, just some of the arguments people making here are overly simplistic and or ignorant, and the usual heavy dose of aged anti-Bolts bitterness from fans of victims past.


Cooper was on the edge of a historic accomplishment he’s emotionally invested in with his boys (technically still is until it’s over) and lost a big game, then has to participate in probably the most annoying for them and awkward part of the job and answer questions for people, just minutes later. Knows he can’t criticize the league too.

People are reading too much into the “crypticness”, and acting like most of us here haven’t/don’t/won’t do literally the same thing over basically every one of our teams losses any time of year, only he’s actually justifiably invested enough to have a hard time accepting a huge loss only minutes later.

99% of the people here calling him a baby or sore loser have gotten more upset over less important details in their teams’ regular season losses lol. And will never come as close to personally achieving something so great only to lose it last second

 

[RyderRocks73]

This guy is an emotional vampire. I cannot believe the degree to which he is thrashing when confronted with his first SC loss. To act like this is the singular event on which the sanctity of the game hinges is nutso when his team made the finals on a blatant goalie interference right before overtime just because it was more expedient to let it stand and have Tampa skate to the final.

 

[ole ole]

I'm sure he would have had the exact same opinion if it had been his team scoring under these circumstances ...

Like game 6 and 7 against the Islanders last season. Karma is great.

 

[daver]

Calls are missed every game. Some penalties impact play, some do not. This did not. The player leaving the ice was nowhere near the play.

Yes, technically it should've been called, but then so should have the trip of the Avs player in OT as he was closing in on Vasi in the offensive zone. Had he not had his feet taken out from under him, he could've scored. Had the penalty been called, the Avs could've scored on the PP. Hell, half their goals were being scored on the PP.

See how that works?

How can you with any certainty that the D-man (Sergachev) wasn't influenced by Mac's positioning before he decided to change. He was caught flat-footed which allowed Kadri to get around him. Is he still caught flat footed if Kadri waits until he is legally allowed on the ice? I doubt he even gets the puck to begin with.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

if he seen something why didnt he challenge t?

 

[voxel]

That´s why interviews or pressers after such games are so often uncomfortable and akward. I mean, your team just lost a very important game in OT, in a cup final, and is down 3-1 and facing elimination on friday. Of course your are devastated and full with emotions.

I don´t deny him having a "point" on that OT-Goal. No problem with that. Than say it and take the possible "fine". I think he can afford it.

BUT man, this presser is really akward Jon. Talking about the "greatest league" in the world, his love of the sport, other coaches and teams, the cap (what did he mean with that, btw?) and giving a 2-minute-monolog almost in tears and hinting a "conspiracy" against Tampa to not winning the cup again (and yes, between the lines thats what he said or implied in my opinion) is no good look. Sometimes its better to stay away.

I have much respect for Cooper. He is one of the best coaches in the NHL today, and has been for years. His achievements with this Tampa-Team are undisputed. But this presser.....Even full with emotions, anger, disappointment...Yikes. It sounds like someone shot his dog.

Complaining about a call or something that didn´t go your way in such manner, when your own team got away with some plenty stuff and calls to your favor in the past doesn´t make a good impression (be it Cooper or any other coach, just to be clear). Hell we can also debate about Cirellis Goal when he clearly took of Kuemper´s mask... Toronto-Fans bringing up the phantom calls which gave his team an advantage, the Islanders who suffered the same goal like Kadri´s tonight against Tampa, or his GM "playing the cap".......That´s a neverending story.

If he really wants to spend time on this on Thursday, so be it. I mean, this presser must somehow feel strange for his own team cause he temporarily sounds like a speaker at a funeral.

I love the “rules put against you” comment… lol. Tampa evaded the cap with LTIR shenanigans and that’s why folks are even discussing a cap for the playoffs.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

if he seen something why didnt he challenge t?

I honestly have no clue. He should have challenged it. The game was crucial.

 

[604]

The Avs player leaving the ice was nowhere near the play.

But the guy who jumped on early was open and made the play.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I honestly have no clue. He should have challenged it. The game was crucial.

imo TB isnt out until TB is out but yeah odds aren't looking good for them right now.
watch Vas shuts out the next 3 games lol

 

[SherVaughn30]

I honestly have no clue. He should have challenged it. The game was crucial.

I think you can only challenge a goal if it's possibly off-sides or goalie interference. You can't challenge a goal based off if there were too many men on the ice.

 

[LOFIN]

I don't really understand why this thread is still going. The NHL has basically said that yeah, the refs missed a call. Tough shit. That happens, and has happened multiple times during these playoffs as well. As far as a missed called in a playoff game goes, that's not even up there as some of the worst because it really had no impact on the actual play unlike say the hand pass in the 2019 series between the Stars and the Blues.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

imo TB isnt out until TB is out but yeah odds aren't looking good for them right now.
watch Vas shuts out the next 3 games lol

Vasy doing the Vasy.

I would love to see awesome goaltending in this series. That's just what I want.

I think you can only challenge a goal if it's possibly off-sides or goalie interference. You can't challenge a goal based off if there were too many men on the ice.

Ah, I see. Okay. That's why Cooper couldn't challenge the play. Thanks for the information.

 

[SherVaughn30]

Vasy doing the Vasy.

I would love to see awesome goaltending in this series. That's just what I want.


Ah, I see. Okay. That's why Cooper couldn't challenge the play. Thanks for the information.

Here's the thing. I don't think it should be a situation to challenge as there are too many variables and interpretations involved. One thing I think the NHL should do though, is consult with every NHL team and mandate all the arenas to paint a 5 foot rectangle box in front of the players benches. All NHL arena's don't have the exact same measurements but it still can be done. By having the 5 foot rectangle boxes, refs can make better judgements if a team has too many men on the ice based on what is written in the rulebook. If the line changes are executed within the 5 foot rectangle box, then I think there will be a lot less controversy regarding the too many men on the ice penalty.