Jokerit 2018-2019 - I Am, We Are!

[vorky]

Jokerit inthe latest financial report: revenues €7.669k and profits € -14.867k. Is this really the most valuable club in KHL? It's a financial trainwreck.

Mean while the neighbour in FEL, HIFK: revenues €10 230k and profits €-130k. HIFK tickets are generally more expensive than tickets to Jokerit games and the venue is smaller. People are voting with their wallets.

According to the 2018 KHL club rating Jokerit was in 3rd place. According to the latest news, Jokerit is in the 1st place right now, the final results of the rating will be known after the season.

 

[Jussi]

According to the 2018 KHL club rating Jokerit was in 3rd place. According to the latest news, Jokerit is in the 1st place right now, the final results of the rating will be known after the season.

Those rankings aren't made on financial situation/status.

 

[Albatros]

Well, I'm just explaining that there is more demand for HIFK games in Helsinki.

Why do they only have an average attendance of 7165 then, versus Jokerit 10415 which is over three thousand more per game? One would think that they could at least sell their smaller building out, but that rarely happens.

 

[Albatros]

the dire situation Jokerit are in financially and competitively

Are they though? One of the best teams in the KHL is doing just fine competitively. Financially it's true that their current situation is not sustainable eternally, but as long as their investors are covering the costs (at the moment they have a deal until 2022) it's also not dire any more than that of successful soccer clubs financed by investors. If in the future there'll be no one covering the costs anymore then Jokerit will simply withdraw from the KHL, whether that's going to be in 2022 or another time we shall see.

 

[Jussi]

Why do they only have an average attendance of 7165 then, versus Jokerit 10415 which is over three thousand more per game? One would think that they could at least sell their smaller building out, but that rarely happens.

Obvious answer being of course that the team sucks. But...that never happens (until the playoffs or Kärpät games). No team sells out their arena in Finland constantly. Of course I could bring up that percentage wise, they fill out Nordis better than Jokerit Hartwall Arena. But Helsinki being the capital of Finland, people have other interests and the city offers other forms of entertainment aplenty. It's simply not realistic to expect a Finnish hockey arena to sell out consistently.

 

[vorky]

Those rankings aren't made on financial situation/status.

I recommend you to study it.

 

[Jussi]

Are they though? One of the best teams in the KHL is doing just fine competitively. Financially it's true that their current situation is not sustainable eternally, but as long as their investors are covering the costs (at the moment they have a deal until 2022) it's also not dire any more than that of successful soccer clubs financed by investors. If in the future there'll be no one covering the costs anymore then Jokerit will simply withdraw from the KHL, whether that's going to be in 2022 or another time we shall see.

Regular season season is meaningless. Their material runs out by the 2nd or 3rd round.

The situation is different compared to European football clubs in that there's far more revenue in the sport and that the clubs could easily reduce or get rid of debt by selling shares or the whole club. That is not the same with Jokerit. Harkimo can't find a buyer (despite vorky's claims that the new buyer was secured before the season start) because the club is "damaged goods" due to other owners being on sanctions list and being unable to make any profit in the league.

 

[vorky]

Are they though? One of the best teams in the KHL is doing just fine competitively. Financially it's true that their current situation is not sustainable eternally, but as long as their investors are covering the costs (at the moment they have a deal until 2022) it's also not dire any more than that of successful soccer clubs financed by investors. If in the future there'll be no one covering the costs anymore then Jokerit will simply withdraw from the KHL, whether that's going to be in 2022 or another time we shall see.

Great example with soccer. The same situation as in hockey, including the NHL. Coyotes saying hi

 

[Jussi]

I recommend you to study it.

I know how it goes. It ignores club debt or ownership situation. State funding section doesn't apply to Jokerit.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

As someone living in Helsinki I can confirm that I've been offered free Jokerit tickets many times.

I, like others (Jokerit fans or not) never see them winning the KHL which has put off many longterm fans.

Giving away tickets or reducing prices has bulked attendance numbers at times with foreign students, tourists and casuals but IMO they aren't invested in the team so Jokerit are in a precarious spot, I feel, if Oligarch funds are pulled.

Edit: point being I don't see Liiga allowing them back.

 

[Jussi]

As someone living in Helsinki I can confirm that I've been offered free Jokerit tickets many times.

I, like others (Jokerit fans or not) never see them winning the KHL which has put off many longterm fans.

Giving away tickets or reducing prices has bulked attendance numbers at times with foreign students, tourists and casuals but IMO they aren't invested in the team so Jokerit are in a precarious spot, I feel, if Oligarch funds are pulled.

Edit: point being I don't see Liiga allowing them back.

Oh I don't think they'd be allowed to return straight away. Probably go through Suomisarja and Mestis, build up the interest in those leagues, allow them to play own juniors and cheaper players. After a couple of years, evaluate the state of Liiga teams, if there's room for one more team or replace someone.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

Oh I don't think they'd be allowed to return straight away. Probably go through Suomisarja and Mestis, build up the interest in those leagues, allow them to play own juniors and cheaper players. After a couple of years, evaluate the state of Liiga teams, if there's room for one more team or replace someone.

Definitely the way it would happen. Everyone hates Jokerit which means money for Liiga in terms of gate receipts and tv viewership. But Liiga would want them to suffer a little perhaps.

 

[Albatros]

I seriously doubt that Jokerit - if they have their organization intact - would have to go through any of that. Not because there wouldn't be influential people that want to see it happen, but because what matters more to them than vengeance in the end is whether their own financial balance starts with plus or minus. Jokerit in Liiga is worth six digits to the organizations there, and that's just too much to ignore.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

I seriously doubt that Jokerit - if they have their organization intact - would have to go through any of that. Not because there wouldn't be influential people that want to see it happen, but because what matters more to them than vengeance in the end is whether their own financial balance starts with plus or minus. Jokerit in Liiga is worth six digits to the organizations there, and that's just too much to ignore.

I think it would be more the other clubs' decision how they can return although I agree that they would hardly ignore the financial benefit of planting Jokerit in Liiga than Mestis.

Saying that, it's not happening anytime soon.

 

[Albatros]

If we are talking about 2022 for example, then it could coincide with the time Liiga is being reduced to 12 or so teams which can be a challenge. On the other hand several big teams will have new larger arenas ready or coming up and thus intense pressure to increase attendances and create events that will sell out the loge boxes as well.

 

[Exarz]

If that was true one would expect the remaining Finnish league team to have a higher average attendance which is by far not the case. Also it's worth noting that Jokerit themselves have had a significantly higher average attendance in the KHL than they had in the domestic league.

Jokerit's attendance is lower this season than it was during the last Liiga seasons IIRC. They've barely had any home games over 10k.

Why do they only have an average attendance of 7165 then, versus Jokerit 10415 which is over three thousand more per game? One would think that they could at least sell their smaller building out, but that rarely happens.

The Helsinki Ice Hall is pretty garbage so that clearly drags the attendance down. When they finally get a new arena, it wouldn't surprise me if they were close to 10k average. And Jokerit has/had (if we compare by Liiga standards) a more passionate following. HIFK has a lot of fans, but fewer of those are people that actually regularly go to the games.

I seriously doubt that Jokerit - if they have their organization intact - would have to go through any of that. Not because there wouldn't be influential people that want to see it happen, but because what matters more to them than vengeance in the end is whether their own financial balance starts with plus or minus. Jokerit in Liiga is worth six digits to the organizations there, and that's just too much to ignore.

They wouldn't be let back that easily considering the "damage" they did to Liiga. And I'm actually a bit worried about the arena situation with the Russian ownership if Jokerit ever were to leave the KHL. They might also want Jokerit to suffer a bit for leaving the league.

 

[vorky]

Posters like to comment on Jokerit´s attendance. Fine.

I would like to ask Finns - how many positive/neutral/negative news about Jokerit/KHL have been published in the Finnish press since the Jokerit´s presser in June 2013? How many positive/neutral/negative news about Hartwall´s arena/Jokerit owners have been published in the Finnish press since the Jokerit´s presser in June 2013?

If you think the articles in the media have no influence on a behaviour of Jokerit´s fans, you are wrong.

Jokerit is doing fine, could do better, of course. Jokerit is the most attended Finnish club if looking at the KHL, the Liiga and the CHL.

 

[Jussi]

Definitely the way it would happen. Everyone hates Jokerit which means money for Liiga in terms of gate receipts and tv viewership. But Liiga would want them to suffer a little perhaps.

I think some media did a poll on that and the answers were vague, something like "no comment", some would take them back but one wouldn't. It's been s while since I saw something like that. Maybe done by Iltalehti or Ilta-Sanomat or some minor publication. Or I'm mixing it with a poll at Jatkoaika.

 

[Jussi]

I seriously doubt that Jokerit - if they have their organization intact - would have to go through any of that. Not because there wouldn't be influential people that want to see it happen, but because what matters more to them than vengeance in the end is whether their own financial balance starts with plus or minus. Jokerit in Liiga is worth six digits to the organizations there, and that's just too much to ignore.

I think there would be several issues that would have to be cleared up first, such as distribution of the tv rights money. One more team would mean less for for the current teams. Liiga CEO brought up jsut recently when talking about promotion and the situation of Mestis how it's a dilemma whether it's worth playing in Liiga and being constant bottomdweller like Vaasa Sport with no real chance of success or a top club at Mestis. But the fans at Mestis want a chance of promotion, they're not content with always playing there. That's why perhaps a season at Mestis would allow Jokerit to build a cheaper team and help the other teams there with attendance. Anyway that would be a few years from now.

 

[Jussi]

Posters like to comment on Jokerit´s attendance. Fine.

I would like to ask Finns - how many positive/neutral/negative news about Jokerit/KHL have been published in the Finnish press since the Jokerit´s presser in June 2013? How many positive/neutral/negative news about Hartwall´s arena/Jokerit owners have been published in the Finnish press since the Jokerit´s presser in June 2013?

If you think the articles in the media have no influence on a behaviour of Jokerit´s fans, you are wrong.

Jokerit is doing fine, could do better, of course. Jokerit is the most attended Finnish club if looking at the KHL, the Liiga and the CHL.

SKA and Minsk are well ahead of them.

Someone in the media would need to do research on that as that would fairly impossible to do with a simple google search. And you know very well that basically all the negative news about Jokerit are linked to their owners (on sanctions list), how that affects Jokerit finances and Jokerit financial situation. Iltalehti "reporter"Pekka Jalonen does fluff pieces on Jokerit games (hockey community has recognized that he's become a mouthpiece for KHL as he won't say anything critical about them all of a sudden) when they win but conveniently when they lose, other guys do the stories.

 

[vorky]

SKA and Minsk are well ahead of them.

Someone in the media would need to do research on that as that would fairly impossible to do with a simple google search. And you know very well that basically all the negative news about Jokerit are linked to their owners (on sanctions list), how that affects Jokerit finances and Jokerit financial situation. Iltalehti "reporter"Pekka Jalonen does fluff pieces on Jokerit games (hockey community has recognized that he's become a mouthpiece for KHL as he won't say anything critical about them all of a sudden) when they win but conveniently when they lose, other guys do the stories.

Give us the numbers. Then we can talk.

 

[Jussi]

Give us the numbers. Then we can talk.

What numbers?

 

[Jussi]

The Helsinki Ice Hall is pretty garbage so that clearly drags the attendance down. When they finally get a new arena, it wouldn't surprise me if they were close to 10k average. And Jokerit has/had (if we compare by Liiga standards) a more passionate following. HIFK has a lot of fans, but fewer of those are people that actually regularly go to the games.

They are notoriously picky and if the team isn't playing well, they won't go. But the outdoor games vs Jokerit showed that they might have the edge in overall fan support in Helsinki (at least during Liiga days) as the Olympic Stadium was clearly more red.

 

[vorky]

What numbers?

How many positive/neutral/negative news about Jokerit/KHL have been published in the Finnish press since the Jokerit´s presser in June 2013? How many positive/neutral/negative news about Hartwall´s arena/Jokerit owners have been published in the Finnish press since the Jokerit´s presser in June 2013?

 

[Albatros]

I think there would be several issues that would have to be cleared up first, such as distribution of the tv rights money. One more team would mean less for for the current teams. Liiga CEO brought up jsut recently when talking about promotion and the situation of Mestis how it's a dilemma whether it's worth playing in Liiga and being constant bottomdweller like Vaasa Sport with no real chance of success or a top club at Mestis. But the fans at Mestis want a chance of promotion, they're not content with always playing there. That's why perhaps a season at Mestis would allow Jokerit to build a cheaper team and help the other teams there with attendance. Anyway that would be a few years from now.

The current TV deal expires in 2024 I believe, and for the next deal it would be rather beneficial for the existing Liiga teams (except those bottom-dwellers) to reduce the size as well as get Jokerit on board before it. Sure this would still allow one season in Mestis if Jokerit leaves the KHL in 2022, but I'm not convinced that such arrangement genuinely benefits anyone. It could also endanger the future of Jokerit at Hartwall Areena as it is not feasible to play Mestis there.