Value of: Johnny Gaudreau to Columbus

[Ledge And Dairy]

Its not even close.. you should probably try watching more than one team when you make those comments. Dubois was a big reason the Jackets beat the Leafs. Let me know when Strome does that.. or Gaudreau for that matter. lol

I am fully aware that Dubois was a main factory Columbus beat Toronto, I watched every single except #4 since I was driving. But my counter is that Gaudreau was a main reason Calgary made the playoffs where Duchene did not help Colorado make the playoffs at all

 

[CF84]

Double post

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I dont think you understand if he was much better than Panarin, he would be a prime Ovechkin, and he sure as hell isn't a prime Ovechkin.

Panarin took massive steps forward in 19/20 compared to 18/19. Kind of like how Hall played out of his mind in 17/18 compared to 16/17. in 18/19 Panarin was not considered better than prime Ovechkin by any means let alone better than current Ovechkin.

 

[TSA0402]

I am fully aware that Dubois was a main factory Columbus beat Toronto, I watched every single except #4 since I was driving. But my counter is that Gaudreau was a main reason Calgary made the playoffs where Duchene did not help Colorado make the playoffs at all

Elite players have to be elite in the playoffs. Wingers aren't in complete control of the ice so they have to be more exceptional. To be blunt, elite players are judged in the playoffs. That is why Gaudreau is likely traded tomorrow(correction today) .

 

[TSA0402]

Panarin took massive steps forward in 19/20 compared to 18/19. Kind of like how Hall played out of his mind in 17/18 compared to 16/17. in 18/19 Panarin was not considered better than prime Ovechkin by any means let alone better than current Ovechkin.

Translation : I am a Canadian hockey fan who only followed the hockey pages when it showed that Columbus had an elite hockey player.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Elite players have to be elite in the playoffs. Wingers aren't in complete control of the ice so they have to be more exceptional. To be blunt, elite players are judged in the playoffs. That is why Gaudreau is likely traded tomorrow(correction today) .

I mean, what you’re saying makes sense to me. Just like Dubois remarkable performance in the playoffs this playoffs, Panarin was also very good for the jackets and was a major part of them beating the lightning in 4 last year, Gaudreau never moved the needle regarding the Flames attempting to go past the Aves. I don’t buy for one second that Gaudreau was ever above Panarin.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Elite players have to be elite in the playoffs. Wingers aren't in complete control of the ice so they have to be more exceptional. To be blunt, elite players are judged in the playoffs. That is why Gaudreau is likely traded tomorrow(correction today) .

You realize Panarin was not that good these playoffs right? No ones calling him out for not carrying the team past Carolina.
I dont think Gaudreau will be traded at all this offseason, his name was likely thrown around but with his value currently tanked no one was willing to pay the asking price so he will be kept. Other holes of the team will be addressed such as goaltending and defense and the Flames will try again.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

I think you’re up for a big surprise.

Montreal fans were also laughing at our Domi proposals.

The big surprise is you guys traded Nutivaara for a bag of poo and Murray for a 5th round pick. I somehow feel a little better about our shitty trade with you guys.

 

[TSA0402]

You realize Panarin was not that good these playoffs right? No ones calling him out for not carrying the team past Carolina.
I dont think Gaudreau will be traded at all this offseason, his name was likely thrown around but with his value currently tanked no one was willing to pay the asking price so he will be kept. Other holes of the team will be addressed such as goaltending and defense and the Flames will try again.

Technically NYR weren't supposed to be in the playoffs this year, they are rebuilding/retooling Carolina in general was just a deeper better team. The fact experts thought NYR had a chance was hilarious.

 

[ViD]

The big surprise is you guys traded Nutivaara for a bag of poo and Murray for a 5th round pick. I somehow feel a little better about our shitty trade with you guys.

We will see who feels better tomorrow

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Translation : I am a Canadian hockey fan who only followed the hockey pages when it showed that Columbus had an elite hockey player.

What? This makes zero sense. I follow Columbus quite closely I think Dubois is on par with Barzal, Point, Tkachuk and should get a 7x3 bridge deal this off season because of it. I also actively say that Jones is a top 5 RD in the league with only Josi and Hedman being for sure above him.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Its a quick google search and a screen shot. I'm not going to waste my time finding articles from August of 2019. Would a player that just put up 99 points not normally be considered better than a player who just put up 87?

Would you prefer if I post this?

I did not even address the statement that Gaudreau was considered a better player than Panarin before this season.

What I addressed is that you posted a motherf***ing fantasy rankings list from NHL dot com to support this statement. That is f***ing ridiculous. Fantasy rankings are vastly different from best player rankings. They do not even pretend to be the same thing. What you did here is about as accurate as finding as a Tumblr blog ranking NHL players by their looks, and then concluding that Alex Wennberg is the most attractive UFA on the market.

If you're "not going to waste your time" doing research to support your statement or to double check whether or not it is correct, you probably shouldn't make it in the first place. I was curious, so I did some research to determine whether or not your statement is true, and here is what I found in just a few minutes.

Last summer, HFBoards ranked Artemi Panarin 8th among wingers and Johnny Gaudreau 9th.

Last summer, NHL Network ranked Johnny Gaudreau 7th among wingers and Artemi Panarin 8th.

Last summer, TSN ranked Johnny Gaudreau 7th among wingers and Artemi Panarin 8th.

It is quite clear that last summer, the perception of these two as all-around hockey players - not as fantasy outputs - was neck and neck.

Next time, do more than a quick Google search before making statements like this. You'd actually waste less time in the long run, because you wouldn't get yourself into an argument where you're clearly wrong.

 

[TSA0402]

I mean, what you’re saying makes sense to me. Just like Dubois remarkable performance in the playoffs this playoffs, Panarin was also very good for the jackets and was a major part of them beating the lightning in 4 last year, Gaudreau never moved the needle regarding the Flames attempting to go past the Aves. I don’t buy for one second that Gaudreau was ever above Panarin.

This is exactly why GM's shouldnt move too much trying to get this guy. As you said, he never moved the needle. If CBJ trades one of their goalies/1st/ top young NHL forward I am going to be pissed off.

 

[TSA0402]

What? This makes zero sense. I follow Columbus quite closely I think Dubois is on par with Barzal, Point, Tkachuk and should get a 7x3 bridge deal this off season because of it. I also actively say that Jones is a top 5 RD in the league with only Josi and Hedman being for sure above him.

You brought up Dubois with Strome... I think you are backtracking or uninformed.. either way... it was a ridiculous comment. At least admit that.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I did not even address the statement that Gaudreau was considered a better player than Panarin before this season.

What I addressed is that you posted a motherf***ing fantasy rankings list from NHL dot com to support this statement. That is f***ing ridiculous. Fantasy rankings are vastly different from best player rankings. They do not even pretend to be the same thing. What you did here is about as accurate as finding as a Tumblr blog ranking NHL players by their looks, and then concluding that Alex Wennberg is the most attractive UFA on the market.

If you're "not going to waste your time" doing research to support your statement or to double check whether or not it is correct, you probably shouldn't make it in the first place. I was curious, so I did some research to determine whether or not your statement is true, and here is what I found in just a few minutes.

Last summer, HFBoards ranked Artemi Panarin 8th among wingers and Johnny Gaudreau 9th.

Last summer, NHL Network ranked Johnny Gaudreau 7th among wingers and Artemi Panarin 8th.

Last summer, TSN ranked Johnny Gaudreau 7th among wingers and Artemi Panarin 8th.

It is quite clear that last summer, the perception of these two as all-around hockey players - not as fantasy outputs - was neck and neck.

Next time, do more than a quick Google search before making statements like this. You'd actually waste less time in the long run, because you wouldn't get yourself into an argument where you're clearly wrong.

Didn't you literally just prove me right here? Not sure how I am "clearly wrong" when the argument was originally about Gaudreau being half the player Panarin is. In 2 out of 3 of those pages, specifically the ones done by professionals Gaudreau was ranked higher. But due to your post I then went and pulled up both players GAR from last year and Gaudreau's was, low and behold better than Panarin's.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

We will see who feels better tomorrow

Oh I know.. I know something's up with you guys and you're likely gonna get Pietrangelo or someone big. Habs GM is the worst in the league. I just thought it was funny that like us Habs fans thinking Domi was worth the moon, you guys thought the same about Nutivaara and Murray haha.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You brought up Dubois with Strome... I think you are backtracking or uninformed.. either way... it was a ridiculous comment. At least admit that.

Dubois is obviously better than Strome was my point. Just like Gaudreau is obviously better than Duchene. You are confusing yourself by thinking I was saying Strome is on the same level as PLD which he is clearly not.

 

[Schred]

This is exactly why GM's shouldnt move too much trying to get this guy. As you said, he never moved the needle. If CBJ trades one of their goalies/1st/ top young NHL forward I am going to be pissed off.

Then we just keep him. He's out best player since Iggy and on a good contract. Not really a dire need to trade Johnny, especially if some of the proposals I've seen around here are any indication of market value this year.

 

[TSA0402]

Dubois is obviously better than Strome was my point. Just like Gaudreau is obviously better than Duchene. You are confusing yourself by thinking I was saying Strome is on the same level as PLD which he is clearly not.

Gaudreau is a more talented player in a less desirable position. Taylor Hall got traded for Adam Larsson. To be honest he isn't a ton better since he is basically a playoff ghost at this point and a winger. Strome is in a similar position but much, much inferior. There is a reason PLD is not in trade circles right now and Gaudreau is. About time you realize it.

 

[TSA0402]

Then we just keep him. He's out best player since Iggy and on a good contract. Not really a dire need to trade Johnny, especially if some of the proposals I've seen around here are any indication of market value this year.

I have absolutely no issue with that, if he is your best player you are the Toronto Maple Leafs with Phil Kessel. Good luck!

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Didn't you literally just prove me right here? Not sure how I am "clearly wrong" when the argument was originally about Gaudreau being half the player Panarin is. In 2 out of 3 of those pages, specifically the ones done by professionals Gaudreau was ranked higher. But due to your post I then went and pulled up both players GAR from last year and Gaudreau's was, low and behold better than Panarin's.

No, it does not support what you said at all. This is what you said:

last year Gaudreau was widely considered better

The difference between their rankings, even among the “experts” was marginal at best.

The difference in GAR was minuscule and well within the margin of error, but I think you can pretty easily use analytics to reconcile the idea that Panarin had the better season and was the better player. The only reason Gaudreau was ahead was penalties and power play GAR; Panarin edged him comfortably in even strength offense and defense with stronger underlying offensive metrics to boot, and while penalties and power play impact are important for assessing the value a player added, they’re a bit less important when assessing how “good” a player truly is and will be going forward (but still important).

Also, Ryan Ellis had like 8 more GAR than Leon Draisaitl did this season. If you want to use GAR as an argument to support how good you think a player is or was, that’s one thing and that’s totally valid IMO, but you cannot use GAR to suggest that the majority thinks that way. The majority of hockey fans do not give a f*** about GAR or even know what it means.

 

[Schred]

I have absolutely no issue with that, if he is your best player you are the Toronto Maple Leafs with Phil Kessel. Good luck!

Pleasure not doing business with you! Lol

 

[TSA0402]

Pleasure not doing business with you! Lol

The (dis)pleasure was all mine!

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Gaudreau is a more talented player in a less desirable position. Taylor Hall got traded for Adam Larsson. To be honest he isn't a ton better since he is basically a playoff ghost at this point and a winger. Strome is in a similar position but much, much inferior. There is a reason PLD is not in trade circles right now and Gaudreau is. About time you realize it.

The reason PLD is not in trade circles is because he is 22 and an RFA, they are not remotely comparable here. The entire argument here is because you said Duchene is only slightly worse than Gaudreau, if you are now admitting otherwise and that Gaudreau is better by a fair margin then there is no issue here. Duchene playing a more desirable position is what made up for the difference in skill, I literally said that earlier.

 

[TSA0402]

The reason PLD is not in trade circles is because he is 22 and an RFA, they are not remotely comparable here. The entire argument here is because you said Duchene is only slightly worse than Gaudreau, if you are now admitting otherwise and that Gaudreau is better by a fair margin then there is no issue here. Duchene playing a more desirable position is what made up for the difference in skill, I literally said that earlier.

He is 22 and probably had more success in the playoffs than Johnny Hockey has ever had. At a premium position. I'm done arguing, you want a premium and he doesn't deserve it based on being a winger and his playoff accolades.