Confirmed with Link: Johnny Boychuk Career Ending Eye Injury

[YearlyLottery]

I'm completely informed thanks. Lou had three key assets he wanted to sign, Toews, Pulock, Barzal. He moved Toews and now we have two key assets to sign. Boychuk taking a skate to the eye put us right where we were pre-Toews move, actually in better position financially but with on one fewer top 4 defensemen . So are you trying to tell me that the plan was to move Toews all along? Don't think so. Lou backed himself into a corner he couldn't get out of and had to move him. Get yourself informed.

Please show me how getting rid of Boychuk equals being able to sign Barzal and Toews. You aren’t informed.

 

[CupHolders]

I believe Toews was moved because he opted for arbitration. This was reported from Lou directly.

Having both Pulock and Toews in arbitration made it certain that they were getting contracts by a certain date. Most likely to Lou, BEFORE the Isles could get other affairs worked out.

With all of that cap space tied up, it would have likely increased the danger of competing against a more formidable Barzal offer sheet.

Toews certainly had the right to arbitration, not suggesting otherwise. But if he wanted to remain an Islander he probably would have needed to wait it out.

If Ladd is going through the process of getting medically declared incapable of playing (which has been rumored and is a lengthy process)... Isles likely could’ve signed Toews to the deal he received from Colorado if Ladd was placed on LTIR.

Leddy, may have also been more of a possibility to move as the upcoming season became more clear.

But no, Boychuck on LTIR alone wouldn’t allow for Barzal, Pulock and Toews.

 

[YearlyLottery]

As you may or may not know, I take the Conf finals run with a grain of salt given the circumstances, and no, I'm not going back to Torrey. Even with Jack Capuano at the helm, from 2012 to 2016 we made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, had two 100 point seasons (might have been a third but one season was, of course, strike shortened), made the second round once. Not a whole lot different than Lou's record to date and the trajectory we were on on before Covid hit was not good. The book on Lou is still wide open, his signings (particularly Lee, Eberle) remain highly suspect, his draft picks still have to prove themselves (they haven't had the chance to yet, I know) and the prospect cupboard is pretty thin according to most. I question his entire "win now" strategy given the roster he had to start out with but I'm keeping an open mind. If his moves and picks work out (and if he gets more Boychuk-luck with Ladd) he may yet be a hero and I'll be the first to congratulate him, enjoy the success and, most importantly to some of the knuckleheads here, eat my crow if necessary (though I haven't bashed Lou at all - but not lauding him constantly and singing his praises is apparently the same thing as criticizing him here).

This is your problem. The actual thought process of "while Lou has made some good moves, we need to wait to see how his approach turns out in regards to winning a Cup" is fair, but then you go and try and compare Capuano to Lou and lose all credibility.

I believe Toews was moved because he opted for arbitration. This was reported from Lou directly.

Having both Pulock and Toews in arbitration made it certain that they were getting contracts by a certain date. Most likely to Lou, BEFORE the Isles could get other affairs worked out.

With all of that cap space tied up, it would have likely increased the danger of competing against a more formidable Barzal offer sheet.

Toews certainly had the right to arbitration, not suggesting otherwise. But if he wanted to remain an Islander he probably would have needed to wait it out.

If Ladd is going through the process of getting medically declared incapable of playing (which has been rumored and is a lengthy process)... Isles likely could’ve signed Toews to the deal he received from Colorado if Ladd was placed on LTIR.

Leddy, may have also been more of a possibility to move as the upcoming season became more clear.

But no, Boychuck on LTIR alone wouldn’t allow for Barzal, Pulock and Toews.

Of course it doesn't. And anybody who wanted to take maybe five minutes to look would know that.

 

[CupHolders]

Of course it doesn't. And anybody who wanted to take maybe five minutes to look would know that.

Yeah I agree... I was only trying to be diplomatic when I stated it the way that I did.

 

[IslesCLT]

Wouldn’t be the holidays without a crazy uncle!

 

[PK Cronin]

Exactly. But you'll never convince the geniuses who dominate this board of it. Anything they can conjure to anoint Lou as a savior they will when the real bottom line is that Lou hasn't accomplished anything yet that his predecessors didn't. Until he does the book will remain open.

As you may or may not know, I take the Conf finals run with a grain of salt given the circumstances, and no, I'm not going back to Torrey. Even with Jack Capuano at the helm, from 2012 to 2016 we made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years, had two 100 point seasons (might have been a third but one season was, of course, strike shortened), made the second round once. Not a whole lot different than Lou's record to date and the trajectory we were on on before Covid hit was not good. The book on Lou is still wide open, his signings (particularly Lee, Eberle) remain highly suspect, his draft picks still have to prove themselves (they haven't had the chance to yet, I know) and the prospect cupboard is pretty thin according to most. I question his entire "win now" strategy given the roster he had to start out with but I'm keeping an open mind. If his moves and picks work out (and if he gets more Boychuk-luck with Ladd) he may yet be a hero and I'll be the first to congratulate him, enjoy the success and, most importantly to some of the knuckleheads here, eat my crow if necessary (though I haven't bashed Lou at all - but not lauding him constantly and singing his praises is apparently the same thing as criticizing him here).

Do you just invent your own definitions for things? So making the second round once in four years is the same as making the second round and conference finals in two years? Oh, right, you're not going to give Lamoriello any credit for this season because of COVID, but you are willing to give Capuano and Snow credit for the 100 point season they could've had if there wasn't a shortened season. That's all without taking into account the trajectory of the team when each took over and the pieces they had to work with.

Yeah, everyone else is a knucklehead for thinking the GM of the team likely knew more about players' health and the rules than people on this message board.

 

[MJF]

Fans were throwing him overboard for anything the minute the Covid cap crunch became an issue for the team. I’m not undermining his contributions, that he resigned, that his contract most likely was going to be an issue near the end of the term, etc. Not all. Rather, fans were so easily dismissing him to find a way to get under the cap. That’s all. Now, all of sudden, he’s retiring and we’ll bypass all that nonsense to flip the page to ‘he was the best, a warrior, yada yada yada.’

I guess you're calling everybody hypocrites.

So what should those people be saying? "I'm glad he's gone. He was an anchor tied to our leg. Thanks for the memories. Good riddance"? Is that how you think everyone should stay on brand?

 

[YearlyLottery]

Do you just invent your own definitions for things? So making the second round once in four years is the same as making the second round and conference finals in two years? Oh, right, you're not going to give Lamoriello any credit for this season because of COVID, but you are willing to give Capuano and Snow credit for the 100 point season they could've had if there wasn't a shortened season. That's all without taking into account the trajectory of the team when each took over and the pieces they had to work with.

Yeah, everyone else is a knucklehead for thinking the GM of the team likely knew more about players' health and the rules than people on this message board.

Two things bother me (well, more than that but I will stick to the two things).

1.) If you want to have a dumb opinion, that is FINE. Just back it up. Please. I disagree with @periferal on quite a bit at times, but this guy comes in and ALWAYS backs it up. I respect that. But when I have to read a post that attempts to compare Capuano to Lamoriello that is stupid. It just is. There really is no defending it.

Also, as I tell my students WHO ARE IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL "make sure that what you write about the story is supported by details in the story." Again, you don't just get to talk about how placing Boychuk on LTIR would have allowed us to sign Toews. Not only is that incorrect, but it is lazy and once again dumb. I hate to use that word, but when you are a full grown adult who enjoys going against the grain (that is fine), have your facts straight. Actually, just having any sort of facts would be a welcome sight in this discussion.


2.) I think some posters are coming to the realization that all the bitching about Lamoriello is wrong. He is not senile, he knows more about hockey than most of us have forgotten about hockey in our lives. That is absolutely fine. Once again though, don't sit here and tell me that you spent your summer thinking to yourself "wow this run is great but it won't ever happen again." Don't sit there and tell me this run was anything CLOSE to the "run" we had with Capuano where we lost in five games to Tampa after barely beating a weak Florida team in the first round.

I'll say it again in case what I wrote was not clear. Any post where you are comparing Capuano or Snow to Lamoriello should seriously be looked at as trolling. There is a difference between going against the grain and just being stupid. THAT was the definition of stupid. Another point is that if you are going to bitch about how placing Boychuk on LTIR allowed us to sign Toews you need to take some time off of posting and actually educate yourself. Education is not a bad thing but to some it is I suppose. It is easier to bask in ignorance rather than educating yourself and coming to the realization that the posts you made over the past week are absolutely idiotic.

I'm a pretty chill mod, but takes like this are simply ruining it for the rest of our posters here.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Do you just invent your own definitions for things? So making the second round once in four years is the same as making the second round and conference finals in two years? Oh, right, you're not going to give Lamoriello any credit for this season because of COVID, but you are willing to give Capuano and Snow credit for the 100 point season they could've had if there wasn't a shortened season. That's all without taking into account the trajectory of the team when each took over and the pieces they had to work with.

Yeah, everyone else is a knucklehead for thinking the GM of the team likely knew more about players' health and the rules than people on this message board.

Jesus, you are so reading challenged it boggles the mind. Where do I give Snow credit for anything that I don't give Lou? In fact, I don't give either one credit, all I did was compare their respective results, that's all. Lou hasn't done or achieved anything special yet and neither did Snow/Cap. You want blabber on about culture and all that, go ahead. I just care about what happens on the ice when the league is operating normally and so far the results are about the same as far as I'm concerned. If the Isles comeback from the Covid reprieve and validate their bubble performance, I'll be the first to acknowledge it but unlike you, I don't just dismiss what I saw before the bubble. And please, spare me the, "what he had to work with" nonsense. Lou saw what he had to work with and has made his choices about what he could achieve with it. He doesn't get a pass because he decided he could win now by possibly sacrificing the future. That's on him.

And it continues to be a ridiculous take to give Lou any credit for the Boychuk luck. Anyone who believes that Lou gives up Toews for two seconds if he knows he has an extra 6.5M in cap space has their head so far up their rear it may never come out. The cap was going to go up 3 or 4M and we still would have had Boychuk at 6.5. So Boychuk taking a skate to the face not only covered what the cap increase was going to be, it added 3M to it. You're going to really tell me that Lou does exactly what he has done to date if he knows that he's got an effective 86M cap?

 

[Uncle Duke]

Please show me how getting rid of Boychuk equals being able to sign Barzal and Toews. You aren’t informed.

Please show me you can think beyond linear thought. That was his plan pre-Covid. He stated it a dozens of times. What I do know is that he doesn't give Toews away for two seconds if he knows he has an additional 6.5M to work with. He may have then moved other, lesser assets to make keeping all three possible because he would have only needed another appx 3M to bridge all three if he knew JBs 6.5 was coming off the books.

 

[PK Cronin]

Jesus, you are so reading challenged it boggles the mind. Where do I give Snow credit for anything that I don't give Lou? In fact, I don't give either one credit, all I did was compare their respective results, that's all. Lou hasn't done or achieved anything special yet and neither did Snow/Cap.

Words have meaning and when you say dumb things you don't get to just change their meaning because you want to.

You said,

Lou hasn't accomplished anything yet that his predecessors didn't.

That means that he and his predecessors had equal amounts of success, which is objectively false. You have now changed what you said to what's bolded above. Those two statements are not the same.

You want blabber on about culture and all that, go ahead. I just care about what happens on the ice when the league is operating normally and so far the results are about the same as far as I'm concerned. If the Isles comeback from the Covid reprieve and validate their bubble performance, I'll be the first to acknowledge it but unlike you, I don't just dismiss what I saw before the bubble. And please, spare me the, "what he had to work with" nonsense. Lou saw what he had to work with and has made his choices about what he could achieve with it. He doesn't get a pass because he decided he could win now by possibly sacrificing the future. That's on him.

I didn't mention culture once here. If all you cared about was what happens on the ice during a normal season you wouldn't have brought up the shortened lockout season. You would also have to acknowledge that Lamoriello's first year had the same result as Snow's best year, and it was on the heels of the franchise center leaving. I've never dismissed what I saw before the bubble, we've gone over this and you're just inventing a new narrative to deflect from your horrible take above.

I'm not giving him a pass because he decided to "win now," I was acknowledging the fact that the team has remained competitive despite losing a franchise player. That's not something anyone expected and certainly not something Snow can say he did or would've been able to do.

And it continues to be a ridiculous take to give Lou any credit for the Boychuk luck. Anyone who believes that Lou gives up Toews for two seconds if he knows he has an extra 6.5M in cap space has their head so far up their rear it may never come out. The cap was going to go up 3 or 4M and we still would have had Boychuk at 6.5. So Boychuk taking a skate to the face not only covered what the cap increase was going to be, it added 3M to it. You're going to really tell me that Lou does exactly what he has done to date if he knows that he's got an effective 86M cap?

Are you saying that Lamoriello had no idea Boychuk would likely end up on LTIR when that trade happened?

 

[YearlyLottery]

Please show me you can think beyond linear thought. That was his plan pre-Covid. He stated it a dozens of times. What I do know is that he doesn't give Toews away for two seconds if he knows he has an additional 6.5M to work with. He may have then moved other, lesser assets to make keeping all three possible because he would have only needed another appx 3M to bridge all three if he knew JBs 6.5 was coming off the books.

Please show me how he was signing Toews, Pulock, and Barzal with only clearing the JB salary. I am dying to read this. Who gives a f*** what the plan was pre covid by the way? The plan pre covid does not matter at all now.

Your plan was to keep this team further in salary issues without saving any sort of money for a forward. Great plan. Keep in mind we also have not seen a salary dump besides the Rangers I believe this offseason.

You are out here comparing the Capuano years to Lou years and I am the one that is crazy. Amazing.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Are you saying that Lamoriello had no idea Boychuk would likely end up on LTIR when that trade happened?[/QUOTE]I'm saying he's a fool if he did.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Please show me how he was signing Toews, Pulock, and Barzal with only clearing the JB salary. I am dying to read this. Who gives a f*** what the plan was pre covid by the way? The plan pre covid does not matter at all now.

Your plan was to keep this team further in salary issues without saving any sort of money for a forward. Great plan. Keep in mind we also have not seen a salary dump besides the Rangers I believe this offseason.

You are out here comparing the Capuano years to Lou years and I am the one that is crazy. Amazing.

Amazing that you see a first round win and then swept and a nice bubble run for a team on it's way to not making the playoffs in year two if Covid doesn't happen as some massive upgrade from what came before. The Isles have a better coach, that is the sum total of Lou's achievement so far. Does he get credit for it, sure. It wasn't difficult, but he get's the credit. Beyond that, nope, he hasn't proven a thing.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Amazing that you see a first round win and then swept and a nice bubble run for a team on it's way to not making the playoffs in year two if Covid doesn't happen as some massive upgrade from what came before. The Isles have a better coach, that is the sum total of Lou's achievement so far. Does he get credit for it, sure. It wasn't difficult, but he get's the credit. Beyond that, nope, he hasn't proven a thing.

Bro I am done responding to you on this thread. You have not attempted once to even try and look up the cap.

You keep going comparing Capuano to Lou and saying that putting Boychuk on LTIR would have equaled resigning Toews. Both are wrong, but the more you say it means the more likely that it is true!

 

[Uncle Duke]

Bro I am done responding to you on this thread. You have not attempted once to even try and look up the cap.

You keep going comparing Capuano to Lou and saying that putting Boychuk on LTIR would have equaled resigning Toews. Both are wrong, but the more you say it means the more likely that it is true!

I've looked at the cap. And all you can see are absolute numbers and a linear Toews, Pulock, Barzal. I see 6.5M that gives Lou time and leverage to not have to give up Toews for close to nothing because he then only has to find maybe an additional 3M. It doesn't mean he has to sign all three, though that was his stated original plan, but he sure as shit wouldn't have been forced to give up Toews for two seconds. He would have had more options to deal because he would not have been so backed into a corner. If you don't get that, you don't get anything.

 

[PK Cronin]

I've looked at the cap. And all you can see are absolute numbers and a linear Toews, Pulock, Barzal. I see 6.5M that gives Lou time and leverage to not have to give up Toews for close to nothing because he then only has to find maybe an additional 3M. It doesn't mean he has to sign all three, though that was his stated original plan, but he sure as shit wouldn't have been forced to give up Toews for two seconds. He would have had more options to deal because he would not have been so backed into a corner. If you don't get that, you don't get anything.

Keeping Toews (at $4.1M) with Ladd and Boychuk on LTIR and Hickey in the minors, they can sign Barzal to $6.5M, Martin and Greene to $1.25M deals and have $3.4M in space remaining with a 22 man roster. If Ladd doesn't end up on LTIR they'd be $2.1M over the cap and would be backed into a corner. Maybe Boychuk going on LTIR is/was more likely than Ladd? I'd also like to see what the final roster is heading into the season before making emphatic claims about the success or lack of success. If we somehow end up with more offense because we have more cap space at the expense of trading Toews, I'm good with that. I think Greene will be a good replacement for at least a season.

 

[CupHolders]

Nah, Lou knew Boychuck was a possibility to leave before Toews was traded. Toews was traded because he went to arbitration. Lou has stated this.

It’s not Toews’ cap hit that would have been the problem, as much as that cap hit was coming on the books along with Pulock’s in August/September.

I don’t think the Isles could absorb a combined 9 mil cap hit a couple of months ago EVEN with the knowledge of eventual cap relief in Boychuck soon to follow.

It would’ve risked Barzal now getting a much more aggressive offer sheet that would’ve placed the Isles above the 10% cap overage they are allowed in the off-season.

Assuming the above (which is straight-up reasonable considering cap facts and comments made) is accurate.... Then the inevitable question becomes: Did Lou’s deadline moves ruin the Isles cap flexibility for this year? Why did they have to thread such a fine needle?

While it would seem that he did. I think that’s an unreasonable view to take as it doesn’t take into account some important nuance.

By the deadline, the NHL had already made it known the cap was going up. The cap has never before deviated extraordinarily from when the NHL has given their preliminary cap numbers for the upcoming season.

To suggest COVID helped the Isles to gain and succeed in the playoffs is to suggest that it could have other effects to. Such as...

It removed close to 4mil of expected cap, which further had the dynamic effect of rendering Bailey and/or Leddy less likely to be moved (flat cap world across the NHL). Something that would have allowed the Isles to keep and add this offseason to their deadline roster. Bailey and/or Leddy being traded this offseason was speculated here and even reported as a strong likelihood by Staple during/around the deadline.

 

[periferal]

Well I've moved the threat assessment on this thread up to Defcon 2. And I'll just add...

wang <<< capuano <<< snow <<< Milbury <<< Spano <<< cat lint from a Chinese restaurant <<< Janne Niinimaa <<< Leftover olive loaf <<< asbestos <<< Dennis Vaske <<< Siri/Alexa...





(the physical distance from Earth to Alpha Centauri)





....<<< Lamoriello <<< Trotz <<< Arbour <<< Torrey.

 

[impaaaaaact]

I think it's possible that Lou went into the offseason thinking both Boychuk AND Ladd were headed to LTIR, and still needed to trade Toews because of the timing of it all - I believe their salaries still count against our cap until the first week of the season, which would have left us susceptible to a Barzal offer sheet had we re-signed Toews.

HOWEVER - If Ladd also ends up on LTIR (which seems extremely possible based on knowledge that we have from posters in here), we'll have more than enough to sign both Barzal and Hoffman while still carrying a 23 man roster - it'll just come at the expense of not resigning Matt Martin (unless he takes less than 1M, in which case Martin could take MDC's spot and he goes down to Bridgeport. A lineup like this would give us both a player who paced at 30+ goals and a player who paced 20+ goals over an 82 game season on each line.

So yeah, losing Toews was not the greatest thing in the world, but at least we had pretty good depth at LD and we got a little something for him. If Ladd ends on LTIR and we're able to nab Hoffman, the asset tradeoff would basically Toews for Hoffman (plus the picks). I think that a lot of us would have signed up for that at many points during last season... can only hope that a result like this is what we're heading for

 

[ScaredStreit]

Please show me how getting rid of Boychuk equals being able to sign Barzal and Toews. You aren’t informed.

This. We were in cap hell to begin with due to 3 things: having a pretty deep roster in terms of legit NHLers (we aren't used to this lol), having an overpaid 4th line, and having several anchor contracts.

We never had room to both Toews and Barzal unless we moved Hickey, Komarov, etc. but you need two teams to make a deal and nobody was willing to take them...so Toews had to go.

We're far from out of the woods too. Pelech is up after next year and we don't have anywhere near enugh room to re-sign him at the moment.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

When does the season start again?

Yeah, let's reserve judgment about the off-season until we see the on ice product.

Losing to the cup champs in 6 games in the Conference Finals ain't shabby. Dobson & Sorokin will offset the loss of Toews and potentially make us even better.

Enjoy the holiday season!

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

There's a significant portion of people who not only think that the things they see are the only things happening, but also think those things happen in the order in which they see them. This is narcissism writ large. Once you see someone displaying this narrowband way of thinking, it's almost impossible not to see how they filter everything through this prism that reinforces their worldview. There's not really any point in engaging with this type of person with anything less than contempt.

 

[Beacon Isles]

We're far from out of the woods too. Pelech is up after next year and we don't have anywhere near enugh room to re-sign him at the moment.

Pelech, Beauvillier and Sorokin. Far from out of the woods indeed.

 

[periferal]

When does the season start again?

Yeah, let's reserve judgment about the off-season until we see the on ice product.

Losing to the cup champs in 6 games in the Conference Finals ain't shabby. Dobson & Sorokin will offset the loss of Toews and potentially make us even better.

Enjoy the holiday season!

I absolutely love optimism, but not at the expense of reality. I'd like to let Sorokin play ONE (1) NHL game before I anoint him an NHL starter, much less the next Brodeur. And not sure a 2nd year Dobson makes up for the loss of Toews and Boychuk. And of course this team has added exactly zero additional scoring to a roster that's been in the botom half of the league the last 2 years running.

And all that said it really doesn't address literally the most important piece to this team...

Adam Pelech.

Look at how the team performed with him, and without him, and you will see the true MVP of this team. An MVP that all of a sudden has had some injury issues on his resume that are noteworthy. I hope it's just been bad luck and we don't have another Radek Martinek on our hands. Because I truly believe this team can get to the semi-finals again with Pelech playing...And there's a chance they miss the playoffs if he doesn't.

While there's still time to do some things, we didn't add any/enough talent to overcome another Pelech injury so that is my biggest concern right now - Even more than the cap situation.