Player Discussion Joel Persson: Persson of Interest (Recalled, 12-03-19))

[ThePhoenixx]

I have no issues with sending Persson to the AHL to get him some time and maybe build up some confidence. I have generally liked his play but there are times where he seems too tentative.

I really dont understand sending him down at the moment though. I assume the pairings will be Nurse/Bear, Klefbom/Larsson, Russell/Benning once Larsson comes back shortly. So why keep Jones up, unless they are planning on actually playing him? Maybe they will be but I cant see them dropping Russell or Benning out of the lineup. Seems like it makes more sense to keep Persson up as a #7 guy then Jones, especially considering that the right side is weaker than the left side on this team. They could play Russell and Persson a bit too. Unless Manning is coming back, and they want to run him as the #7 who rarely plays.

I dont really get it. Tippett doesnt seem to be a Persson fan though to me.

Persson tends to wander and turn in to a rover in the D-zone. He's smart so he can get away with it at times. Makes it harder on his partner though.

Tippett doesn't like Rovers. He wants five-man system play.

 

[McDNicks17]

Persson tends to wander and turn in to a rover in the D-zone. He's smart so he can get away with it at times. Makes it harder on his partner though.

Tippett doesn't like Rovers. He wants five-man system play.

I'm not really sure I saw much of that, but if that's the case, isn't it Tippett's job to coach him to play the system? He's a talented guy who has helped them win a bunch of games. Seems like he might be worth the time investment from the coach.

Could be worse though, I guess. I trust Woodcroft/Manson far more with player development than Tippett.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I'm not really sure I saw much of that, but if that's the case, isn't it Tippett's job to coach him to play the system? He's a talented guy who has helped them win a bunch of games. Seems like he might be worth the time investment from the coach.

Could be worse though, I guess. I trust Woodcroft/Manson far more with player development than Tippett.

I am really impressed with Persson.

The last game he played I wasn't sure what side he was playing on in the D-zone. It was noticeable. If Tippett lets him break formation...

The NHL is not a developmental league. A short stint in the minors will not hurt him. He can play top pairing.

I see lots of the pros on this team developing this year.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

I hope that he gets back into the lineup as quickly as possible

 

[joestevens29]

I am really impressed with Persson.

The last game he played I wasn't sure what side he was playing on in the D-zone. It was noticeable. If Tippett lets him break formation...

The NHL is not a developmental league. A short stint in the minors will not hurt him. He can play top pairing.

I see lots of the pros on this team developing this year.

At the end of the day we have a lot of defensive prospects. If you aren't doing something special you will be sent down and someone else will get a shot. Not exactly a bad position to be in.

 

[McCombo]

Maybe a good thing for him to get a lot of minutes in AHL. But he is better hockey player than Benning. And brings skillset Oilers don't really have, Bear being to exception. Larsson is okay, but he and Benning are same type of players. Physical but don't have above average skills with the puck. Bear-Larsson-Persson trio compliment our left side much better.

Maybe later this year we will see it, but if Oilers start the get hemmed in own zone after this, the reason is pretty obvious. Not enough puckmovers.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Completely disagree. You don’t need to be playing every other day to develop. You need practice time to work on skills and systems. That is why the AHL is a developmental league and the NHL is not.

Has nothing to do with his development. There was talk about him not being able to handle the NHL schedule and somehow playing twice on weekends while sitting around for 4 plus days helps that how exactly?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Has nothing to do with his development. There was talk about him not being able to handle the NHL schedule and somehow playing twice on weekends while sitting around for 4 plus days helps that how exactly?

If you read my post I said Strudwick said he was not in NHL game shape. In drills near the end of practice he said he was winded. Watching him live in nearly every game he’s played the game is coming at him much to fast. He has potential but considering he was teaching school 4 years ago he’s come a long way and while only played 10 games he has a bit to go before he can claim a top 6 NHL D spot.

They don’t sit around for 4 days at a stretch in Bakersfield either (nor just play exclusively on weekends). It’s called “practice”.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

If you read my post I said Strudwick said he was not in NHL game shape. In drills near the end of practice he said he was winded. Watching him live in nearly every game he’s played the game is coming at him much to fast. He has potential but considering he was teaching school 4 years ago he’s come a long way and while only played 10 games he has a bit to go before he can claim a top 6 NHL D spot.

They don’t sit around for 4 days at a stretch in Bakersfield either (nor just play exclusively on weekends). It’s called “practice”.

Yeah, I'm sure practicing will tighten up his endurance. The last 2 weeks the Condors have had Monday-Friday off for games how is pracitcing going to get Persson into game shape? Hell he could have stayed up here and gotten into "game shape" since he could actually practice against NHL players if that had anything to do with it which it doesn't.

 

[McDNicks17]

If you read my post I said Strudwick said he was not in NHL game shape. In drills near the end of practice he said he was winded. Watching him live in nearly every game he’s played the game is coming at him much to fast. He has potential but considering he was teaching school 4 years ago he’s come a long way and while only played 10 games he has a bit to go before he can claim a top 6 NHL D spot.

They don’t sit around for 4 days at a stretch in Bakersfield either (nor just play exclusively on weekends). It’s called “practice”.

The game shape stuff seems a little far-fetched to me.

If they liked everything other than his conditioning, why wouldn't they play him on the third pairing for 14 minutes like Benning instead of the 16 minutes he was playing in the top4?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Yeah, I'm sure practicing will tighten up his endurance. The last 2 weeks the Condors have had Monday-Friday off for games how is pracitcing going to get Persson into game shape? Hell he could have stayed up here and gotten into "game shape" since he could actually practice against NHL players if that had anything to do with it which it doesn't.

According to the interview - and any NHL player will confirm this - it’s impossible to get into 100% NHL shape during the hockey season. That is what off season is for.

He’s never played in the NHL which is a huge step up from the SHL. The NHL pace increases roughly every 10 games or so. It’s simply too fast for him now.

The practice is for him to work on his on ice game. The AHL games are for him to work on his on ice game.

The times in between games are gym and practice times.

That’s how it works.

So what I’m saying is that unless we have an injury expect him to improve his game this year and then his conditioning in the off season and we see what we get next year.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

The game shape stuff seems a little far-fetched to me.

If they liked everything other than his conditioning, why wouldn't they play him on the third pairing for 14 minutes like Benning instead of the 16 minutes he was playing in the top4?

Because the game is coming at him too fast. Those micro seconds count in the NHL. And I’ll take the word of an ex NHL defencemen that Persson is winded near the end of practice as not being “far fetched”.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I'm not really sure I saw much of that, but if that's the case, isn't it Tippett's job to coach him to play the system? He's a talented guy who has helped them win a bunch of games. Seems like he might be worth the time investment from the coach.

Could be worse though, I guess. I trust Woodcroft/Manson far more with player development than Tippett.

Tippetts job is to win hockey games. Woodcroft and Mansons job is to develop players. Persson was playing within the system and was breaking down in his end.

With the emergence of Bear, the return of Larsson and the call up of Jones who can play the right side, he is now expendable at the NHL level and can work on his conditioning and his game.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Yeah, I'm sure practicing will tighten up his endurance. The last 2 weeks the Condors have had Monday-Friday off for games how is pracitcing going to get Persson into game shape? Hell he could have stayed up here and gotten into "game shape" since he could actually practice against NHL players if that had anything to do with it which it doesn't.

BTW they play 6 games in the next 11 nights.

 

[Stoneman89]

Yeah, I'm sure practicing will tighten up his endurance. The last 2 weeks the Condors have had Monday-Friday off for games how is pracitcing going to get Persson into game shape? Hell he could have stayed up here and gotten into "game shape" since he could actually practice against NHL players if that had anything to do with it which it doesn't.

Practicing is NOT the same as actually playing - surely you can recognize that. Given top end minutes down there in all situations will do a lot more good than practicing up here. And they can spend some time teaching him down there, that's what the AHL is for. No one said it's forever. That's up to him, and any potential future injuries up here.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Tippetts job is to win hockey games. Woodcroft and Mansons job is to develop players. Persson was playing within the system and was breaking down in his end.

With the emergence of Bear, the return of Larsson and the call up of Jones who can play the right side, he is now expendable at the NHL level and can work on his conditioning and his game.

They were 8-1-1 with Persson in the line up. Pretty sure that meets Tippetts job criteria.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Practicing is NOT the same as actually playing - surely you can recognize that. Given top end minutes down there in all situations will do a lot more good than practicing up here. And they can spend some time teaching him down there, that's what the AHL is for. No one said it's forever. That's up to him, and any potential future injuries up here.

That was MY point. 5Mins is the one who brought up practicing like it simulates game play and somehow having a practice or practices during their 5 day breaks somehow helps Perssons endurance issues.

BTW they play 6 games in the next 11 nights.

By the way December sees them sit 21 out of the first 28 days with 3 different weeks having 5-6 days between games.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

They were 8-1-1 with Persson in the line up. Pretty sure that meets Tippetts job criteria.

That record means nothing as far as Persson being the reason we won nor his ability to keep up to where the pace is now.

 

[guymez]

They were 8-1-1 with Persson in the line up. Pretty sure that meets Tippetts job criteria.

You dont honestly think that Persson was an important part of that record....do you?

I dont understand the pushback around this decision. It was the right decision.
It was clear as day that Persson struggled with NHL speed. With the depth the team has on D now how does it make sense to keep throwing him out there?

It doesnt benefit the team or the player.

Having Persson adjust to the smaller ice surface in a League thats half a step slower than the NHL is exactly the right decision IMO.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

That record means nothing as far as Persson being the reason we won nor his ability to keep up to where the pace is now.

Its weird because when we replaced him with Manning we had a losing record but I'm sure that had nothing to do with the switch except for the fact you know when we went back to Persson we started winning again. I'm not even mad he went down because we now have a line up that won't see Manning in games but don't (the team and anyone buying into it) try and tell me he didn't help the record immensely. It is the same reason why the team has continued to win with Jones in the line up they both offer similar things for the line up and one another. Persson/Jones works with Klefbom because they both are capable of making individual plays both in the offensive and defensive zone. Instead of bumping/chipping the puck everytime they get it (Manning/Benning/Russel) they make plays that lead to better break outs and better utilized offensive zone time for the forwards. Cycles don't end because one of the nobrand D we were icing continually throwing it back into the corners every time the forwards worked got control and through it back to the point. There was better back and fourth between Persson and Klefbom in the Ozone than there ever was when Russel was playing in that spot. Acting like he didn't contribute to that 8-1-1 record is dumb.

 

[Aerrol]

I was one of the posters annoyed at Persson staying benched but I like this. If he's not gonna get NHL ice time, send him down to our (finally) capable development coaches in the AHL to work on his game and get some bigger minutes. From what I saw there's an NHL defender in him if he can work on his decision making speed and conditioning.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

That was MY point. 5Mins is the one who brought up practicing like it simulates game play and somehow having a practice or practices during their 5 day breaks somehow helps Perssons endurance issues.


By the way December sees them sit 21 out of the first 28 days with 3 different weeks having 5-6 days between games.

You really don’t get the point of the AHL do you.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

I've noticed Persson have difficulty with the speed of the game at times but I've also seen guys blow by Benning for scoring chances and he didn't get benched for any games. Persson was definitely learning on the job but his instincts are good and his positive contributions were noticeable on a team that has lacked good puckmovers.

Persson has looked a little less confident though since the concussion. If he needs to go down to help with his development and get lots of minutes then I'm supportive of that. Hopefully when he comes back up his defensive game has improved.

 

[Stoneman89]

That was MY point. 5Mins is the one who brought up practicing like it simulates game play and somehow having a practice or practices during their 5 day breaks somehow helps Perssons endurance issues.


By the way December sees them sit 21 out of the first 28 days with 3 different weeks having 5-6 days between games.

Sorry, misred your post.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Its weird because when we replaced him with Manning we had a losing record but I'm sure that had nothing to do with the switch except for the fact you know when we went back to Persson we started winning again. I'm not even mad he went down because we now have a line up that won't see Manning in games but don't (the team and anyone buying into it) try and tell me he didn't help the record immensely. It is the same reason why the team has continued to win with Jones in the line up they both offer similar things for the line up and one another. Persson/Jones works with Klefbom because they both are capable of making individual plays both in the offensive and defensive zone. Instead of bumping/chipping the puck everytime they get it (Manning/Benning/Russel) they make plays that lead to better break outs and better utilized offensive zone time for the forwards. Cycles don't end because one of the nobrand D we were icing continually throwing it back into the corners every time the forwards worked got control and through it back to the point. There was better back and fourth between Persson and Klefbom in the Ozone than there ever was when Russel was playing in that spot. Acting like he didn't contribute to that 8-1-1 record is dumb.

I’m not acting like he did not contribute but I can say that he was not a key contributor to the wins, but he did contribute nonetheless. However it’s no different than blaming Manning as the reason we lost games he participated in.

No question from me that we are better off with Jones up and Persson down, Russell on the bottom pair on his strong side and Manning sitting.

The fact remains that Tippett, Playfair, Holland and K Gretzky feel Persson needs to work on his game as he’s only had 10 games in the NHL, and it’s coming at him too fast now. From what Ive seen I agree.

Strudwick who played a decade in the league said he is winded in practice drills and he should not be.

Given none of us see practice and Strudwick does and given his direct experience in being in NHL shape I’d say his making a qualified statement about Perrsons conditioning which is probably fairly accurate.

It’s not a failure of the player, merely a step in his development. It’s not a failure of the organization as it’s what good orgs do, recognize when players start to get in over their head and adjust so the player is set up for success, rather than do what we always used to do, play the shit out of them in slots where they are bound to fail.

Good decision to send him down and it will only benefit both him and the team.