Confirmed with Link: Jimmy Vesey Signs with Rangers - MOD WARNING # 318

[finchster]

Plenty of jilted lovers around here. Lots of fans were writing this guy into the top six, now he is the 7th best LW.

I tend to agree more with the guys who said he's not that good. If you check the posting history, I was, and am, skeptical of the ability of a 23 year old to be any kind of difference maker in his first professional year.

It's not like he was at a top tier hockey program, he was at Harvard. The best players they ever turned out are; Don Sweeney, Craig Adams, Ted Donato, and Dominic Moore. A bunch of meh if you ask me.

 

[Fenway]

Could you be a wee bit more specific? I'm just 40 and can't connect the dots

Mark Witkin owns the agency Vesey is represented by. There has been bad blood between the Bruins and Witkin for decades. Joe Juneau being shipped out 20+ years ago was partially because his agent was Witkin.

Witkin was a member of the Sports Huddle for over 20 years. He had a falling out with Andelman 20 years ago when he and Jim McCarthy decised to move the show to Foxwoods and Eddie was against it and they split.

 

[Fonzerelli]

Plenty of jilted lovers around here. Lots of fans were writing this guy into the top six, now he is the 7th best LW.

I am one of the guys saying he would've been our 7th best LW prospect, but if you check my posting history, I was also saying that long before August 15th

No jilt felt here. Just relief

 

[Over the volcano]

Mark Witkin owns the agency Vesey is represented by. There has been bad blood between the Bruins and Witkin for decades. Joe Juneau being shipped out 20+ years ago was partially because his agent was Witkin.

Witkin was a member of the Sports Huddle for over 20 years. He had a falling out with Andelman 20 years ago when he and Jim McCarthy decised to move the show to Foxwoods and Eddie was against it and they split.

Great stuff - thanks

 

[Fonzerelli]

Mark Witkin owns the agency Vesey is represented by. There has been bad blood between the Bruins and Witkin for decades. Joe Juneau being shipped out 20+ years ago was partially because his agent was Witkin.

Witkin was a member of the Sports Huddle for over 20 years. He had a falling out with Andelman 20 years ago when he and Jim McCarthy decised to move the show to Foxwoods and Eddie was against it and they split.

interesting. thanks for sharing!

 

[LouJersey]

Plenty of jilted lovers around here. Lots of fans were writing this guy into the top six, now he is the 7th best LW.

I tend to agree more with the guys who said he's not that good. If you check the posting history, I was, and am, skeptical of the ability of a 23 year old to be any kind of difference maker in his first professional year.

It's not like he was at a top tier hockey program, he was at Harvard. The best players they ever turned out are; Don Sweeney, Craig Adams, Ted Donato, and Dominic Moore. A bunch of meh if you ask me.

He would have been our 4th best LW to start this year. Joe was taken out of context. I also have texts from Dan saying how he liked Vatrano and Heinen better six weeks ago.

This jilted lovers thing is funny though. First off we are all Bruins fans so yeah it makes you pissed off a kid who's 'posed dream it was to play for the Bruins chose the hated Rangers. Secondly his agent said earlier the Rangers have some "holes" so he'd be a good fit, I.e. easiest way to get real ice time. you had that stupid Jimmy Hayes comment reported too so I get the disdain right now.

 

[DKH]

Dan, you're smarter than this just to chalk it up to nerves and pressure and say the kid is a wilting flower in the sun. He played big time college hockey in front of his friends and family at home many a night and didn't shrink in the moment. If anything, I firmly believe his decision is a hockey based one. I believe that he thinks he'll get more meaningful minutes elsewhere and that the path the Rangers are on is ahead of the one the B's and their "not a rebuild" are on. Simple as that. It's closer to home than Chicago, and the Rangers are a better team than Boston right now. No need to imply he's going there just because he doesn't want the spotlight. If anything, the lights in NY are more intense if he becomes what some project him to be.

I'm a jilted lover but talked to Joe and agree

Marchand
Beleskey
Vatrano
Heinen
DeBrusk
Bjork
Vesey
Gabrielle

Yah 7th sounds

 

[Fonzerelli]

He would have been our 4th best LW to start this year.

And that's the way the vast majority of Ranger fans see it as well. He will be their #4 LW.

1.) Nash
2.) Kreider
3.) Buchnevich (http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2117551)
4.) Vesey

 

[Dr Quincy]

Wow Dave, great job in not looking at the entire picture. Do you really need me to point out that of those guys, only Marchand, Beleskey, and Vatrano have NHL experience and several are still in college/juniors...or did it just not serve your purpose to mention that?

I don't think you need to be a genius to figure out that the B's felt that they could plug Vesey in right NOW, which is not an option with most of those other guys. My point was that over the next few years, I don't think losing Vesey will hurt much. This year, it might, if somebody like Vatrano or Heinen doesn't step up.

Awesome. Now point out 1 post that I ever said that losing Vesey would hurt. I'll help you... it doesn't exist.

It might be easier to fight strawman arguments than real ones. All I said is that I don't like the attitude in here that say (now and not 2 days ago) that he's a soft weak-minded kid who wasn't that good anyway.

If you weren't one of those people then you don't need to respond. But a bunch of people have had their views of his character and abilities change for no other reason than their feelings are hurt.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

its hard to predict success 1 league to the next at the best of times.

i remember dimitri kvartalnov tearing up the ihl.,, then we got him and he scores a ppg in his rookie year. im like, wow this guy is great... and then poof

i remember when hockey news had stephain quintal and alain cote rated among the 10 best dmen not in the nhl. i was drooling as i imagined them joining bouque

i remember this board melting down when we lost kyle wanvig for nothing because he was going be the next cam neely.

i remember making a trade suggestion to get tj brodie from the flames when he was struggling as a kid and being told he sucks.

we all like to imagine we are experts on how these kids will translate to the nhl... but for as seldom as we are right, we are all wrong more often.

let the kid play and then we will judge... but even then we wont agree.

we are listing the top bruins of all time and we dont even agree on that

we can all pretend theres only 1 way to grade a prospect... one way to rate who are 7 best lw are... but thats our own problem.

reality is hockey is a complex game. a player like martin st louis might get waived out of calgary but get a chance on a first line in tampa... these things happen because its not a simple game.

 

[Fossy21]

Plenty of jilted lovers around here. Lots of fans were writing this guy into the top six, now he is the 7th best LW.

I tend to agree more with the guys who said he's not that good. If you check the posting history, I was, and am, skeptical of the ability of a 23 year old to be any kind of difference maker in his first professional year.

It's not like he was at a top tier hockey program, he was at Harvard. The best players they ever turned out are; Don Sweeney, Craig Adams, Ted Donato, and Dominic Moore. A bunch of meh if you ask me.

I mean, I'd love if people juxtaposed posters' comments before and after he signed to prove that there are a lot of jilted lovers in here. I saw a lot of guys excited for him, and a lot of people disappointed or even dismissive afterwards. Not sure I can put together posters who were praising him as a can't-miss prospect and who are also now putting him as a career AHL'er. I sure wasn't and am not (I'd probably qualify him as a great add, and think he was just that for the Rangers, and still would've been for the Bruins, regardless of what depth we have).

 

[Fonzerelli]

its hard to predict success 1 league to the next at the best of times.

i remember dimitri kvartalnov tearing up the ihl.,, then we got him and he scores a ppg in his rookie year. im like, wow this guy is great... and then poof

i remember when hockey news had stephain quintal and alain cote rated among the 10 best dmen not in the nhl. i was drooling as i imagined them joining bouque

i remember this board melting down when we lost kyle wanvig for nothing because he was going be the next cam neely.

i remember making a trade suggestion to get tj brodie from the flames when he was struggling as a kid and being told he sucks.

we all like to imagine we are experts on how these kids will translate to the nhl... but for as seldom as we are right, we are all wrong more often.

let the kid play and then we will judge... but even then we wont agree.

we are listing the top bruins of all time and we dont even agree on that

we can all pretend theres only 1 way to grade a prospect... one way to rate who are 7 best lw are... but thats our own problem.

reality is hockey is a complex game. a player like martin st louis might get waived out of calgary but get a chance on a first line in tampa... these things happen because its not a simple game.

It's not rocket science either. There will always be outliers, but we are getting to the point where we can predict with reasonable accuracy how players will translate from league to league. Certainly, much more accuracy than the eye test or the old boys network.

Reminds me of the Dave Nonis vs a potato schtick run by Pension Plan Puppets which was picked up on by Canucks Army. They took Vancouvers entire scouting team and put them up against raw statistics (not even drilled down analytics) and the raw numbers kicked ass on the flesh and blood "experts"

http://canucksarmy.com/2014/5/20/we-think-the-vancouver-canucks-may-have-a-scouting-problem

It's both funny and revealing

 

[OConnellsProtege]

I'm a jilted lover but talked to Joe and agree

Marchand
Beleskey
Vatrano
Heinen
DeBrusk
Bjork
Vesey
Gabrielle

Yah 7th sounds

Call me crazy, but I would rank Gabrielle ahead of Vesey as well. Gabrielle at 23 years old could make for a good, intense hockey player.

 

[Fossy21]

If you weren't one of those people then you don't need to respond. But a bunch of people have had their views of his character and abilities change for no other reason than their feelings are hurt.

We have to take a break from doing that to our own players/front office, right?

Even though I'm not one of the guys who do that (I think, at least?), could you quote some posts from those you consider have done so? I'll try to play interpret their views and play devil's advocate... or they could defend themselves here (if they even want to, they might just be emotional sports fans who got swept away by the hype). I don't expect you to (I'd imagine it might be a lot of effort), but I'm not seeing this so much, so I'm just curious.

 

[Fonzerelli]

Call me crazy, but I would rank Gabrielle ahead of Vesey as well. Gabrielle at 23 years old could make for a good, intense hockey player.

Yup

Gabrielle projects as a 40-50 point player in the NHL at 22.

Vesey a 26 point player at 23

Based on on-ice performace so far it's no contest. It'll be fun to re-visit this thread in 3-4 years and see how it played out.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I promise everyone one thing if vesey does end up having a good NHL career he will be better than our 7th left wing. we arent going to end up with 6 of our guys going on to have good nhl careers.

but i was in the camp saying too many prospects choke off the opportunity for growth and development. a team shouldnt have 4 lines of small shooters who arent strong defensively.

for all any of us might know vesey could be better than vatrano or heinen or even spooner as a top 6 lw this year, but hes also a 3 mill cap hit too. and if he is promised icetime he might get in the way of our other kids.

its like bringing in a vet like vrbata... vrbata might be better but does it make our team better to sign him?

to answer that question will take time for vesey. theres no need to run the kid down now though. it shows poorly on us.

if we got 6-7 good lw pros/prospects lets celebrate our good fortune.

 

[Fonzerelli]

I promise everyone one thing if vesey does end up having a good NHL career he will be better than our 7th left wing. we arent going to end up with 6 of our guys going on to have good nhl careers.

but i was in the camp saying too many prospects choke off the opportunity for growth and development.

Good point. And for a projection to be graded true or false the player would have to enjoy a full season (or reasonably full) in a top 9 even strength roll. If a 22 year old is in the press box or the minors, or getting minimal 4th line minutes because he lost a numbers game on the depth chart, obviously he wouldn't get a chance to fullfill his NHLE potential.

 

[mikelvl]

Been back home for a few hours and made some some calls.

The main reason Jimmy signed with New York goes back many many years. If you are 45 or older this music will remind you of a radio show that was legendary before sports radio existed

https://youtu.be/J55xnFE0Ibo?t=91

It goes back to when Jacobs sued the old WEEI because of something said on that show.

I wish the kid the best - I think he got horrible advice.

I don't believe this for a second.

 

[EverettMike]

Bjork is a better prospect than Vesey?

That's where we are at in here?

Uh-may-zing.

 

[DKH]

Bjork is a better prospect than Vesey?

That's where we are at in here?

Uh-may-zing.

He was really good in the cone drill

 

[Dr Quincy]

He was really good in the cone drill

But is Bjork a plum? That's the real question.

 

[Fonzerelli]

Bjork is a better prospect than Vesey?

That's where we are at in here?

Uh-may-zing.

Was there ever a question that Bjork was better?

Bjork is already an NCAA point per game player at 19 years old and has been selected to every single Team USA he's been eligible for U17, U18 & U20.

I thought this was a given. Already better and 3 years younger yet with tons of room for improvement still to come.

Maybe it's just me that likes prospects that produce

 

[KnightofBoston]

Did Vesey ever say he wanted a top 6 role? It always seemed like that was conjured by this board because Nashvile offered him such a role to entice him into leaving school early - but I didn't think Vesey ever actually said that was one of his requirements, can anyone confirm?


If im not mistaken, it makes perfect sense why he was fine going to New York. I think he values his development being handled properly and having people he can live with over everything else.

 

[FROMSHORETOCHARA]

Corey Pronman had Vesey ranked as the 98th best prospect in hockey. I am sure you can find lists that support your narrative. There are lots of lists

Corey pronman might be right, like I said I thought it was comical that people assumed he was a top line lw. But that was when he was coming here, now he is a ranger and sux. Anyway, you seem to like pronman, where does he rate the forwards you listed? I'm not an ESPN insider, how many Bruins you listed above vesey at 98?

Hockey news has him 14th I believe.

 

[Hali33]

Bjork is a better prospect than Vesey?

That's where we are at in here?

Uh-may-zing.

How'd this guy get 5 threads anyways? Sounds like we dodged a bullet here. With 6 or 7 better LW prospects he just would have a blocked a spot.