News Article: Jimmy D. : "Red Wings won't 'sit back' in attempt to rebuild"

[The Zetterberg Era]

regarding the article, I think a lot of it is just Jimmy D blowing smoke. He mentions having a plan, he mentions needing superstars, he makes some vague assertions towards being crazy like the bald guy from Despicable Me. It could be offersheeting someone, it could be asking Usain Bolt if he wants to try hockey. I honestly wouldn't put a lot of stock in it as I think Devellano's main goal was to just focus some heat on himself and shift focus away from Holland and the lousy team for a few days.

the "craziest" thing I can see them doing is making a move for someone like Trouba - young guy who is reportedly unhappy with his situation and could be had in a trade.

I wish we had the ammo for Trouba, he would be perfect.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

We are not getting Panarin for two reasons:

1. We are terrible.

2. We aren't New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I wish we had the ammo for Trouba, he would be perfect.

I could have sworn he was going to be a UFA when his contract expired, crazy that he will be a RFA again.

There's a chance he could still wind up here down the road if he wants to play close to home.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I could have sworn he was going to be a UFA when his contract expired, crazy that he will be a RFA again.

There's a chance he could still wind up here down the road if he wants to play close to home.

We will see that is tough to hold out for, though I have always believed we would be real players if he does get to UFA status. Still we have to hope he doesn't extend with Winnipeg which I believe pretty strongly in terms of I don't think he stays there long-term, but that wherever he does wind up doesn't extend him. Winnipeg is a big contender, but I am not sure they will let him walk into UFA without dealing him. If he winds up in a Boston or Tampa or somewhere like that does he extend, we don't know that one yet.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

We will see that is tough to hold out for, though I have always believed we would be real players if he does get to UFA status. Still we have to hope he doesn't extend with Winnipeg which I believe pretty strongly in terms of I don't think he stays there long-term, but that wherever he does wind up doesn't extend him. Winnipeg is a big contender, but I am not sure they will let him walk into UFA without dealing him. If he winds up in a Boston or Tampa or somewhere like that does he extend, we don't know that one yet.

Agreed all around. I definitely think trade talks have quieted specifically because of Winnipeg's powerhouse status, so we will see what he does.

 

[lilidk]

We are not getting Panarin for two reasons:

1. We are terrible.

2. We aren't New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago.

We can get Panarin 2.0. We just need better scouting. I saw Panarin at juniors. Nothing special, he looked like Zadina among Nhl team even though he was older than most of his teammates. He never was drafted because he wasn't good. If we scout KHL, Olga and SHL we could find some hems.

 

[Henkka]

We can get Panarin 2.0. We just need better scouting. I saw Panarin at juniors. Nothing special, he looked like Zadina among Nhl team even though he was older than most of his teammates. He never was drafted because he wasn't good. If we scout KHL, Olga and SHL we could find some hems.

Nikita Gusev would be the Panarin 2.0. Best player in KHL.

Trade his rights from Vegas. Gusev has something like 2 or 3 years contract left at KHL. He could join the team at perfectly right time, when we are back rising on the top and would bolster that.

He was Yzerman-drafted guy which Tampa did lose on the expansion, could see the interest in him.

EDIT:

And If I'm right, he is UFA in 1-2 years, so don't even have to waste assets on a trade for him.

EDIT2:

In general, many contenders are built overall great. Get players from everywhere. Get talent. Draft high. Sign KHL best player. Sign best UFA goalie Bobrovsky, which is HUGE, I'mean HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE UPGRADE to our current crap & shit guys between the pipes.

Go after Karlsson, go after Panarin. You maybe won't get them, but go after, push the market price up, so other contender has to overpay and at least they will lose their cap space and could get weaker in depth. Bring in kids Veleno, Zadina.

Bring in new coach. Etc.

That's how the change will happen. You dig the ground from every possible area.

 

[kliq]

But the point is that one of two things would happen:

1) Detroit offers Team B something like Mantha and a pick for a defenseman. Team B hangs up the phone.

2) Detroit offers Team B a crazy overpayment for a defenseman. (Think, Mantha, Veleno, and a 1st and 2nd round pick.) Team B happily accepts, and the fans riot.

The Wings simply don't have the trade chips to meet in the middle with a smart deal. Especially if the deal involves a player of potentially superstar caliber, which is what the overtones of the article would imply.

I feel like you missed all my examples.

You really think a team would hang up the phone if Detroit offered Mantha and a 1st? Not even saying I want to trade a 1st and/or Mantha, but the pessimism/self loathing one this board implying we can't do anything is ridiculous.

I guarantee you if a year ago someone here said they wanted a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Tatar, someone like yourself would say that Team B hangs up the phone. Offering something ridiculous like Abby and Helm for Trouba gets you hung up on. Offering Mantha and a pick is not some crap offer.

 

[kliq]

I wish we had the ammo for Trouba, he would be perfect.

I would love to trade for Trouba, but I feel he's coming here when he hits UFA anyways. But, that kind of assumption could also cost you Trouba. Glad I'm not a GM lol.

 

[jkutswings]

I feel like you missed all my examples.

You really think a team would hang up the phone if Detroit offered Mantha and a 1st? Not even saying I want to trade a 1st and/or Mantha, but the pessimism/self loathing one this board implying we can't do anything is ridiculous.

I guarantee you if a year ago someone here said they wanted a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Tatar, someone like yourself would say that Team B hangs up the phone. Offering something ridiculous like Abby and Helm for Trouba gets you hung up on. Offering Mantha and a pick is not some crap offer.

To clarify, when I said Mantha and a pick, I meant something other than a 1st rounder. Which I still think nobody would listen to.

Mantha + a 1st could be a conversation starter, but I'd be shocked if there's a team out there who would trade even a POSSIBLE top pair guy for that.

I'm not saying Detroit couldn't find a decent defenseman in a trade. But the article was about needing superstars, and those types of players simply won't be had by the Wings in trade or free agency.

 

[Henkka]

I'm not saying Detroit couldn't find a decent defenseman in a trade. But the article was about needing superstars, and those types of players simply won't be had by the Wings in trade or free agency.

Just like superstars Seguin, Taylor Hall or Erik Karlsson will never be traded.

Just like superstar UFA like [insert name in here] will never be moved.

How dare you throw this crap in here? It's like saying that Earth is flat.

 

[jkutswings]

Just like superstars Seguin, Taylor Hall or Erik Karlsson will never be traded.

Just like superstar UFA like [insert name in here] will never be moved.

How dare you throw this crap in here? It's like saying that Earth is flat.

You're right.

Holland hasn't made a good hockey trade in over a decade.
The last 2-3 great free agents wouldn't even take Detroit's calls.
The team is bottoming out, and has zero expendable trade chips that another team should want in exchange for anything more than a second tier player.

How dare I connect those dots and rule out the inevitable blockbuster move.

 

[kliq]

To clarify, when I said Mantha and a pick, I meant something other than a 1st rounder. Which I still think nobody would listen to.

Mantha + a 1st could be a conversation starter, but I'd be shocked if there's a team out there who would trade even a POSSIBLE top pair guy for that.

I'm not saying Detroit couldn't find a decent defenseman in a trade. But the article was about needing superstars, and those types of players simply won't be had by the Wings in trade or free agency.

You don't think anybody would "listen to" a potential lottery pick? If you truly believe that, I don't think you understand the value of a pick like that.

Not even saying I would want to trade a 1st/Mantha, I likely wouldn't. But the idea that the Wings call say Carolina and offer their 1st in this years draft (or even next years) + Mantha, and that Carolina responds with "not even listing to this....click" is absolutely ridiculous to me.

I feel that fans like to have this self loathing attitude of "we suck, our players suck, our GM sucks, our ownership sucks, our picks are worthless, nobody wants to sign here, nobody wants to trade with us...sigh".

If you want to argue that we likely can't pull a move like that off, ok, ill give you that. But to say its not possible is just not true, and the idea that nobody would give us the time of day, I dont buy in to that for a second.

What's the harm anyways in Holland exploring all options? I feel that if anyone else said these things, nobody would think twice, but since it's coming from the Holland camp, the sky is falling.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

You don't think anybody would "listen to" a potential lottery pick? If you truly believe that, I don't think you understand the value of a pick like that.

Not even saying I would want to trade a 1st/Mantha, I likely wouldn't. But the idea that the Wings call say Carolina and offer their 1st in this years draft (or even next years) + Mantha, and that Carolina responds with "not even listing to this....click" is absolutely ridiculous to me.

I feel that fans like to have this self loathing attitude of "we suck, our players suck, our GM sucks, our ownership sucks, our picks are worthless, nobody wants to sign here, nobody wants to trade with us...sigh".

If you want to argue that we likely can't pull a move like that off, ok, ill give you that. But to say its not possible is just not true, and the idea that nobody would give us the time of day, I dont buy in to that for a second.

What's the harm anyways in Holland exploring all options? I feel that if anyone else said these things, nobody would think twice, but since it's coming from the Holland camp, the sky is falling.

Is your point that the Wings can make a trade if they trade the one thing they must not trade? I feel like other people were arguing from the position that trading a lottery pick is so stupid that it's not worth entertaining as a viable option.

Outside of the next few years' lottery picks, Dylan Larkin, and Filip Zadina, the Red Wings have very little to trade for high-end roster players. That's true.

 

[jkutswings]

You don't think anybody would "listen to" a potential lottery pick? If you truly believe that, I don't think you understand the value of a pick like that.

Not even saying I would want to trade a 1st/Mantha, I likely wouldn't. But the idea that the Wings call say Carolina and offer their 1st in this years draft (or even next years) + Mantha, and that Carolina responds with "not even listing to this....click" is absolutely ridiculous to me.

I feel that fans like to have this self loathing attitude of "we suck, our players suck, our GM sucks, our ownership sucks, our picks are worthless, nobody wants to sign here, nobody wants to trade with us...sigh".

If you want to argue that we likely can't pull a move like that off, ok, ill give you that. But to say its not possible is just not true, and the idea that nobody would give us the time of day, I dont buy in to that for a second.

What's the harm anyways in Holland exploring all options? I feel that if anyone else said these things, nobody would think twice, but since it's coming from the Holland camp, the sky is falling.

Something OTHER THAN A FIRST ROUND PICK.

As in, Mantha plus either a 2nd or a 3rd for a defenseman with top pair potential. Yes, I absolutely think teams laugh Kenny off the phone with that deal.

Here's a specific example. I don't rate Trouba as highly as some fans here do, but if I'm Winnipeg and Detroit offers Mantha and a 2nd for him, I counter with Mantha, Veleno, and a 1st. Defensemen cost a high premium, either via other highly regarded defensemen (Weber for Subban), or via overpayment in forwards (Hall for Larson).

 

[kliq]

Is your point that the Wings can make a trade if they trade the one thing they must not trade? I feel like other people were arguing from the position that trading a lottery pick is so stupid that it's not worth entertaining as a viable option.

Outside of the next few years' lottery picks, Dylan Larkin, and Filip Zadina, the Red Wings have very little to trade for high-end roster players. That's true.

No, my original point has clearly been lost.

My original point was simply that if what JD meant by being aggressive was exploring potential trades, I am ok with it. I think a re-building team should be aggressive, as being aggressive can mean many things.

For the record, I dont want the Wings to trade a 1st or Larkin or Zadina, I was just responding to the notion that we have nothing to offer.

 

[kliq]

Something OTHER THAN A FIRST ROUND PICK.

As in, Mantha plus either a 2nd or a 3rd for a defenseman with top pair potential. Yes, I absolutely think teams laugh Kenny off the phone with that deal.

Here's a specific example. I don't rate Trouba as highly as some fans here do, but if I'm Winnipeg and Detroit offers Mantha and a 2nd for him, I counter with Mantha, Veleno, and a 1st. Defensemen cost a high premium, either via other highly regarded defensemen (Weber for Subban), or via overpayment in forwards (Hall for Larson).

Why are you writing "other then a first round pick" in caps as if I misunderstood something. You literally were talking about a 1st. Here is your exact quote:

"Mantha + a 1st could be a conversation starter, but I'd be shocked if there's a team out there who would trade even a POSSIBLE top pair guy for that."

You're making it sound as if I am taking you out of context which I am not.

Honestly, I am not even sure what you are arguing at this point. My point is that when you are in a re-build, aggressively exploring all options is a good thing. It sounds like your point is, dont explore anything because the Wings won't have any success doing so. I just can't get behind that philosophy. To each their own I guess.

 

[jkutswings]

Why are you writing "other then a first round pick" in caps as if I misunderstood something. You literally were talking about a 1st. Here is your exact quote:

"Mantha + a 1st could be a conversation starter, but I'd be shocked if there's a team out there who would trade even a POSSIBLE top pair guy for that."

You're making it sound as if I am taking you out of context which I am not.

Honestly, I am not even sure what you are arguing at this point. My point is that when you are in a re-build, aggressively exploring all options is a good thing. It sounds like your point is, dont explore anything because the Wings won't have any success doing so. I just can't get behind that philosophy. To each their own I guess.

In an earlier response to another poster, I had clarified my previous "Mantha and a pick" comment to mean "Mantha and a pick not in the 1st round".

But as for the overall point, I wholeheartedly agree to explore all options. I'm saying that Devellano and Holland doing anything super aggressive would be from a position of weakness, and I'm not optimistic that they'd manage to execute it respectably, let alone shrewdly.

Listen to any offers of any kind; that's free. I just don't want anybody to get so impatient that they do something stupid in the name of bringing "a superstar" to town. That's what the Pistons did for Blake Griffin, and while a handful of regular season wins is cute, that franchise isn't doing any damage in the playoffs whatsoever, and is now without their first round pick. I don't want that "shortcut" mentality anywhere near the Wings.

 

[kliq]

In an earlier response to another poster, I had clarified my previous "Mantha and a pick" comment to mean "Mantha and a pick not in the 1st round".

But as for the overall point, I wholeheartedly agree to explore all options. I'm saying that Devellano and Holland doing anything super aggressive would be from a position of weakness, and I'm not optimistic that they'd manage to execute it respectably, let alone shrewdly.

Listen to any offers of any kind; that's free. I just don't want anybody to get so impatient that they do something stupid in the name of bringing "a superstar" to town. That's what the Pistons did for Blake Griffin, and while a handful of regular season wins is cute, that franchise isn't doing any damage in the playoffs whatsoever, and is now without their first round pick. I don't want that "shortcut" mentality anywhere near the Wings.

Agreed, I dont want this either. I look at it from both ends up the spectrum, I dont want them making a bad trade (like the Griffin one) because they are getting impatient with the re-build, but I also wouldnt want them passing up a move that would make our team better long term because its not what "traditional re-build" dictates. Its about making the "right moves", I think we both agree on that.

 

[Reddwit]

With the "superstar" talk and the "outside the box" stuff, along with the somewhat out-of-nowhere announcement about retiring Red Kelly's number and changing the color of the seats at the Joe...all of this leads me to believe that the Illitch C-Suite underestimated how much icing a crappy team would keep people from opening up their wallets for the Wings. Looks like they're prepared to try anything.

Wouldn't be shocked to see Detroit pull out all the stops and make Karlsson an offer that would give him the most expensive cap hit in the NHL if they can get access to him.

 

[Winger98]

They are definitely going to throw money at Karlsson, and they were going to do that regardless of anything else that is going on. Unless Karlsson picks up his game, though, I wonder what sort of salary demands he'll be able to leverage if he puts up a season ~50 points while again not looking great defensively.

 

[ricky0034]

They are definitely going to throw money at Karlsson, and they were going to do that regardless of anything else that is going on. Unless Karlsson picks up his game, though, I wonder what sort of salary demands he'll be able to leverage if he puts up a season ~50 points while again not looking great defensively.

the guys 28 and has multiple Norris trophies(and four 1st all star teams)

he could put up 20 points and still have teams tripping over themselves to be the one to give him whatever he wants

he's been fine anyways,mostly just a bunch of bad luck with shooting percentages for and against over a small sample size

 

[Reddwit]

They are definitely going to throw money at Karlsson, and they were going to do that regardless of anything else that is going on. Unless Karlsson picks up his game, though, I wonder what sort of salary demands he'll be able to leverage if he puts up a season ~50 points while again not looking great defensively.

Can't imagine that will make much of a dent. He and his agent could easily spin it as him having a hard time integrating himself with a veteran core (Thornton, Burns, Pavs, Couture, Vlasic) that has been together for eons now, a new role for the first time in his career, etc. He could also make folks forget about a "weak" season pretty fast if he has a good playoff showing.

Either way, I can't imagine a scenario where Detroit signs Karlsson without being the highest bidder.

 

[raymond23]

Can't imagine that will make much of a dent. He and his agent could easily spin it as him having a hard time integrating himself with a veteran core (Thornton, Burns, Pavs, Couture, Vlasic) that has been together for eons now, a new role for the first time in his career, etc. He could also make folks forget about a "weak" season pretty fast if he has a good playoff showing.

Either way, I can't imagine a scenario where Detroit signs Karlsson without being the highest bidder.

Don't underestimate the Swedish mafia.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Shouldn't the Wings (or any team) sign a UFA that truly wants to comes the team. Just by paying Karlsson the most money, just might not provide the Wings the best long term hockey value.
I'd rather have a guy want wants to truly play for my team or my city (maybe Trouba) and use the extra cap available to get another player.